Vilverum Fae's page

Hello! We are a group of 4 friends (22-24 years old) with varying degrees of experience in Pathfinder, and we’re looking for a DM willing to lead us on an adventure. We are situated in Esbjerg and Vojens, but would be willing to travel to another nearby city if that’s what it takes. We are looking for regular sessions, preferably every week, and would very much like to play during weekends as our weekdays are pretty busy. If the potential DM has a friend who would like to join the party as well, we’re open to that. However, we do not want more than 5 players + 1 DM at the table. Oh, and we’d like to play exclusively in English, since two members of the group are international students ;)

While some of us may not be the most experienced players in the world, we are all four very dedicated and more than willing to put in time to learn new rules/classes/systems/whatever it takes. We can assure any potential DM that we will know our classes inside out, and have everything ready for each session so that play goes as smoothly as possible. We are of course mature individuals willing to focus on the game for the duration of the session without getting distracted by phones/random small talk/etc. The bottom line is that we respect each other’s time and will strive to create entertaining sessions for all present (especially our future DM!)

What we are looking for is a DM with some experience in that role, but more importantly one that is keen on dungeon-mastering as opposed to playing. Currently, our main “problem” is that all of us want to play, and none want to DM, which is why we are looking for an outside DM in the first place. [As a side note, two of our group have tried their hands at DM-ing in the past within our circle of friends.] We would like someone who is a great storyteller first, and a good DM second – that is to say one of the group members is quite familiar with most of the PFDR rules and would not mind helping out with that aspect during sessions in order to allow the DM to focus on the story.

A few details on the campaign we’d like to play: We want to focus on roleplaying this time, running a campaign with a bit more RP and a bit less hack&slash. We are also very interested in an urban setting for the campaign, something in the lines of Curse of the Crimson Throne or Council of Thieves. We are perfectly fine with playing both an official Adventure Path, and a completely original campaign made by the DM, or even a mix of the two. And we’re open to *any* ideas, even outside the urban setting. At this point we just want to play on a regular basis with a likeminded DM, and would be willing to compromise on almost every aspect to make that happen.

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I think that’s a big enough wall of text, so I’ll stop. However, anyone interested in joining should feel free to ask as many questions as they want and one of our group will answer as soon as possible (depending on who posted this text on this particular message board/forum/subreddit). Thank you for reading this far!

Hello!

I have a quick questions about ammunition: Are there any specific rules in place for converting arrows into crossbow bolts using a Craft skill? By that I mean the PC literally sitting down with the appropriate tools in hand and turning arrows they found into bolts, rolling Craft: Weaponsmith in the process as if they were making the bolts from scratch?

More specifically, I'm interested in the possibility of converting magically enchanted arrows into bolts of the same type (Ghost Touch and such) without destroying the enchantment in the process, which I think should be quite doable practically speaking. Of course this can easily be made into a house rule or the like, but I'm curious if there is already an official rule for this - or anything similar. And if there really isn't one, do you guys have any advice in how to handle such an attempt? Maybe give it a % chance to destroy the enchantment or something similar for balance?

[As a bit of background, we keep finding stashes of loot that have dozens of arrows in them (all enchanted, and very useful for the enemies we encounter) but no bolts, which end up being pretty useless if no one in the party has a bow. And yes, I know crossbows are worse than bows, but I'm doing it for the flavour. So I'd like to be able to sit down and turn the otherwise useless enchanted arrows we keep finding into bolts I can actually use.]

Thanks in advance!

Hello!

I have a quick questions about ammunition: Are there any specific rules in place for converting arrows into crossbow bolts using a Craft skill? By that I mean the PC literally sitting down with the appropriate tools in hand and turning arrows they found into bolts, rolling Craft: Weaponsmith in the process as if they were making the bolts from scratch?

More specifically, I'm interested in the possibility of converting magically enchanted arrows into bolts of the same type (Ghost Touch and such) without destroying the enchantment in the process, which I think should be quite doable practically speaking. Of course this can easily be made into a house rule or the like, but I'm curious if there is already an official rule for this - or anything similar. And if there really isn't one, do you guys have any advice in how to handle such an attempt? Maybe give it a % chance to destroy the enchantment or something similar for balance?

[As a bit of background, we keep finding stashes of loot that have dozens of arrows in them (all enchanted, and very useful for the enemies we encounter) but no bolts, which end up being pretty useless if no one in the party has a bow. And yes, I know crossbows are worse than bows, but I'm doing it for the flavour. So I'd like to be able to sit down and turn the otherwise useless enchanted arrows we keep finding into bolts I can actually use.]

Thanks in advance!

I stand corrected then.

Ah, no need for that! It was a very good point you made, and I'm far from certain on what he'll want to do. He may very well like the idea of focusing on out-of-combat aspects, who knows? And for what it's worth, I'd probably go full detective-type Investigator myself if I were to play on. Straight up Sherlock Holmes, most likely fighting with my fists when the need arose.

[And on a side note, man did this thread end up suppressing my initial expectations by a mile! I was hoping for a couple of suggestions at best, but you guys really helped a lot, so thanks everyone!]

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

If your talking Empiricist Investigator I recommend a level 1 dip into inspired blade swash for quick access to fencing grace while adding to your melee bag of tricks. If you grab mutagen you can +8 your dex by level 5 and if you throw in alter self or reduce person +10 dex.

I really love the synergy of the 2 classes. Plus first 5 levels of Investigator suck for combat.

Personally I was under the impression that the Ranger and the Inquisitor would do most of the fighting...but I could be wrong.

Sure, we would take care of the fighting, but at the end of the day it's an AP designed for 4 players and we could use all the help we could get. Not only that, but new players - him especially, if I know him well - would like to participate in combat as well as in the social/skills aspects, so having a few feats that make him efficient in battle are a good thing.

He'll most likely never be on par with the Ranger or the Inquisitor, but an early dip in Swashbuckler as suggested and some early focus on melee combat could go a long way in making the whole game much more interesting for him. Plus, for what it's worth, I won't focus my Inquisitor solely on combat - I actually plan on making a rather mediocre build and focus far more on flavour and roleplay, so I won't say no to some extra umpf in combat!

I forgot to mention (if your group doesn't have a trapfinder in it) the Crypt Breaker alchemist archetype. It's pretty good at it, and can be a terror vs. corporeal undead (upping the die to a d8 at low levels, and then adding +1 per die and getting improved crit with them at level 14).

Will keep that in mind as well, thanks for the new suggestion!

If your talking Empiricist Investigator I recommend a level 1 dip into inspired blade swash for quick access to fencing grace while adding to your melee bag of tricks. If you grab mutagen you can +8 your dex by level 5 and if you throw in alter self or reduce person +10 dex.

I really love the synergy of the 2 classes. Plus first 5 levels of Investigator suck for combat.

I was just looking at the Swashbuckler as well, for the same purpose. Glad to see I wasn't mistaken in considering a 1 level dip. The only concern now is selling such early multiclassing to a new player. They tend to be inherently.. afraid of complex systems like that. But if he does go with Investigator, the whole deal is far too good to pass up, so I'll definitely insist he consider the Swashbuckler dip.

Any suggestions on exactly when to do it? I was thinking that starting with Swashbuckler wouldn't be a bad idea at all, actually, and going full Investigator from level 2 onwards. Either that or dip at level 2, since the lower levels are the ones where he might feel a bit useless in combat - especially when paired with a Ranger and Inquisitor in the party. Is that a good idea, or am I off the mark here?

Vilverum Fae wrote:

Well the Lepidstadt Fencer sounds amazing just going by the name, and it would fit so well with the AP set in Ustalav (you wrote Leipstadt, but I guess you meant Lepidstadt, which is a city in Ustalav, right? Unfortunately, however, I can't seem to find anything about the archetype anywhere, with either one of the two spellings. If you could refer me to the book/companion it's from, I'd much appreciate it. If not, don't worry, there are other Investigator archetypes that would work. I'll definitely add the class to the list of suggestions.

Well with that I think I'm all set. Thanks a million, Thomas, you really helped me a lot!

Doh. I meant Inspector. Anyways, It's in Pathfinder Player's Guide: Advanced Class Origins. It should be in the d20pfsrd.com.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paiz o---investigator-archetypes/relentless-inspector-investigator-archetype

Hope that helps. But yeah, Investigator might be a way for your newbie PC to go. Not too complicated, but still interesting.

Yep, it helps plenty. Although I personally think the Empiricist archetype would fit much better, because it doesn't replace Trapfinding like the Relentess Inspector does. Nonetheless, the Investigator as a whole is an excellent suggestion, and I'm sure he'll love it if he wants to go the non-magic route. Thanks again!

Well there's always my favorite, which just was released a few months back, the Investigator. There's a nice archetype that works well too with it, if your PC wants it, Leipstadt Fencer I believe. Rogue is always trusty, but if he's looking for something a little different from the norm, there's always hybrid classes or else Magus. Magus works fine. If he's not sure or wants only from the core, fighter can work but I wouldn't like make it the best option. Barbarian, especially one that a) Unchained and b) has Ghost Rager rage power might be an option. I hope that helps.

Well the Lepidstadt Fencer sounds amazing just going by the name, and it would fit so well with the AP set in Ustalav (you wrote Leipstadt, but I guess you meant Lepidstadt, which is a city in Ustalav, right? Unfortunately, however, I can't seem to find anything about the archetype anywhere, with either one of the two spellings. If you could refer me to the book/companion it's from, I'd much appreciate it. If not, don't worry, there are other Investigator archetypes that would work. I'll definitely add the class to the list of suggestions.

Well with that I think I'm all set. Thanks a million, Thomas, you really helped me a lot!

Vilverum Fae wrote:

Well I had the Holy Water aspect in mind for some time now. I'll be playing a Dhampir Kinslayer Inquisitor, and I was going to take Bless Water as one of my two level 1 spells, along with Inflict Light Wounds. Both make sense for the backstory I have in mind, and it seems like it will help quite a bit to be able to make Holy Water on demand (since I also have Create Water as a level 0 spell and can carry some empty flasks with me). Of course it's not enough, we'd most likely need to buy some extras, but still. Quick question, though: I don't suppose throwing Holy Water at the walls of a haunted room (as in Haunt) would deal damage to it? I mean, the water is technically infused with positive, holy energy, right?

I think, story wise, it works fine. Certainly makes sense to keep as much holy water on you as possible.

This one is a kind of a GM/DM call, but I allowed it when it was in Harrowstone. They didn't worry to much after Harrowstone since we got more players and some were divine spellcasters. (Besides Inquisitors I mean.)

Well that makes sense. I'll leave it to the GM to decide then. I have two more questions if you don't mind, and then I think I have all I need to get us started on the right track:

1. Could you estimate what % of encounters in the first 3 chapters are Undead ? Except Haunts and the like, I mean specifically monsters. The whole look and feel of CC leads me to believe that it'll be almost only Undead (apart from the occasional Warewolf and such). No specifics, though, please, I'd like to avoid spoiling too much.

2. If the new guy wants nothing to do with Divine or Arcane magic on his first game (this includes Bards, I suppose), what suggestions would you have for this 3rd spot on the party? Rogue for the skillset? Or rather a tanky Fighter? [I know it's not ideal by any means, but at the end of the day he has to play whatever he enjoys the most, and we'll not force him to pick a class for any reason]

Vilverum Fae wrote:

Thank you very much for the quick and detailed reply, it helps a lot! As it stands right now, I'll suggest Bard and Sorcerer as the best choices, and let him decide what he likes best - unless of course he'd rather do something else. Also, the answer regarding Haunts is all I need to know that we'll not really miss a Cleric/Oracle of Life as long as we play it smart and come prepared.

If he chooses Monk, make sure he understands Monks don't get to hurt incorporeal undead. Just saying I've had monks too.

Well not sure you're missing out, but I'd HIGHLY recommend it. If nothing else, recommend your PC come prepared with LOTS of Holy Water. Like a lake full at a time. That and probably let them have access to weapon blanchings where possible.

Well I had the Holy Water aspect in mind for some time now. I'll be playing a Dhampir Kinslayer Inquisitor, and I was going to take Bless Water as one of my two level 1 spells, along with Inflict Light Wounds. Both make sense for the backstory I have in mind, and it seems like it will help quite a bit to be able to make Holy Water on demand (since I also have Create Water as a level 0 spell and can carry some empty flasks with me). Of course it's not enough, we'd most likely need to buy some extras, but still. Quick question, though: I don't suppose throwing Holy Water at the walls of a haunted room (as in Haunt) would deal damage to it? I mean, the water is technically infused with positive, holy energy, right?

I'd say....

Alchemist
Bard
Magus
Summoner (if allowed)

edit - removed paladin as an option since this IS carrion crown.

There's a lot of conflicting suggestions about Paladins: Some say it's a great choice, others insist it breaks the AP by making it too easy, while others still imply that it's hard to play one due to the Lawfulness aspect and morally grey choices in the AP.

Can you go a bit into detail about why you cut the Paladin form the list, please? I'd like to be prepared with some answers just in caase my friend wants to play a Paladin.

Vilverum Fae wrote:

Well I do have a few questions about the AP that you could help with, if you don't mind:

Not at all. I'm glad to help.

Thank you very much for the quick and detailed reply, it helps a lot! As it stands right now, I'll suggest Bard and Sorcerer as the best choices, and let him decide what he likes best - unless of course he'd rather do something else. Also, the answer regarding Haunts is all I need to know that we'll not really miss a Cleric/Oracle of Life as long as we play it smart and come prepared.

I've run up to the first part of Shadows of Gallowspire. I've had a wide variety of players/characters in that campaign. I've also had experience with it. If you have a problem or concern, I'd be happy to help.

Well I do have a few questions about the AP that you could help with, if you don't mind:

1. Exactly how much use of Disable Device (and trap related skills, etc.) would one get for the first 2-3 books? I was suggested a Seeker archetype Sorcerer at some point, and I'd like to know if it's really needed or not. Or if a Rogue or Archaeologist Bard would really be that useful in terms of disabling/openning traps/locks/whatever in the first few chapters?

2. Plenty of Sorcerer suggestions in this thread in particular, including a very interesting Dragon Disciple that peaked my interest, but I sadly have very little experience with arcane casters, so I don't know how much one of them could do in such an Undead heavy setting. Are there plenty of monsters immune to the usual arcane debuffs and non-blasting spells? How exactly will such a Sorcerer (in the hands of a new player, mind you) contribute to combat for the first 3-4 levels? Wouldn't he feel pretty useless, even if they for example spam Disrupt Undead or such?

3. And finally a questions about Haunts (and the whole no Cleric/Channel Energy problem we're facing): There are two parts in removing a Haunt, as I understand it - neutralizing it and destroying it permanently. Can you do the latter without doing the former? In order words, can we burn the corpse of the widow or whatever to destroy the Haunt, without first neutralizing it by bringing it to 0 HP with positive energy and the like?

Thanks in advance for any help!

I think what you need is dragon disciple and Eldritch knight character. You need at least some arcane in there and skills are covered say maybe mouth so a sorcerer with those two prestige classes is what id suggest. At the start of the game meta magic the heck out of magic missile or burning hands so he can fire from the back and put a longspear in his hands for mop up.

As the levels progress he will be able to choose at his leisure if he wants to support or be on the frontline. sorc6/DD4/EK10 is my suggestion as he only loses one level of casting and is good in melee with 3/4 BAB.

That... is a very interesting suggestion. I've always wanted to make a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer into Dragon Disciple, just never got around to it. I'm a bit afraid that the whole multiclassing aspect (especially with 3) will seem daunting at first, when I explain it. He might be too afraid to try it in his first game. But I'll give it a try anyway and see what he thinks. Thanks for the out-of-the-box suggestion, this is exactly what I was hoping for here!

First time I ever played Pathfinder was Carrion Crown, and I was the bard of the party. I did all the face stuff and honestly I think I was rather great. Book 2 of this is as far as we got and a bard can really shine there. But yeah, since this guy is new, and he might not take to the face position right off the bat. Honestly though, another fun class that I have played in the past is Warpriest. It is the Fighter-Cleric hybrid class and it does not require being a face though one can build their character to do that. It is a combat class that allows for being a healer as well. By the time you are at the end of book 1 a Warpriest can do just about as much as a cleric while still being more interesting and all around fun character.

Now, seeing as you are only going with 3 regular characters and 1 part time, I might be misinterpreting what was posted so forgive me, I would want to use as broad a scope of characters as possible and not be so specialized. An Unchained Rogue would make a great skill monkey and a perfect face if need be, and could devastate with sneak attack. Any dedicated healer class be it Cleric, Warpriest, or even a Paladin would work. They provide healing and can be walls of heavy armor and smash anything in front of them. These classes besides being great healers are also good fighters. Finally I would recommend a dedicated front-line mane. Fighter, Barbarian (Unchained or not), Unchained Monk, Bloodrager, Brawler, or even a Swashbuckler would be great. They could stand on the front line and take anything out. As for the fourth floater, I would go with an arcane caster. Any of the classes would work, but I like Bards myself. They are versatile and are Jacks of all trades. Though any caster that can either rain down destruction from the back or can buff the front line would be great. And as a floater this caster, which are all the more squishy and vulnerable of characters, would be able to level up with the group while not having to be risked so much in combat.

Anyway...

Thank you very much for the long and heartfelt reply! I'll take your advice to heart and suggest those classes you mentioned.

Sure, there's dirge bard, but there's also archivist, archaeologist, arcane duelist, magician and several others that would find a nice fit. Oracle also has several mysteries that would fit nicely.

I think with the bard the question is how much group support will the player want to do versus how much is needed. If the new player would rather go something more personal like archaeologist (inspire courage replaced by a self-buff rather than a group buff) then it may be up to the inquisitor to throw out a few more buffs. But the bard archaeologist is a great Indiana Jones.

I also would love to mention the magus as a great option for a 3-man party, but I really don't think the mechanics of that class should be thrown at a new player.

Yeah, the Magus is such a sweet class, and it sounds amazing when a player first hears about it, but I also believe it's a bit too much to throw at the new guys. Will see, if he really like the sound of it, and it's something he'd like to do, we'll just do our best to help him along. If not, Bard looks more and more likely.

I see two different issues at play - is he a new player to RPGs as a whole, or just to the Pathfinder system?

New player - I wouldn't ask a new player to be the party face, and most of the classes require some time to get used to, not to mention learning the basic rules.

New to Pathfinder - Ok, you can be the face if you want. Still have to learn the ins and outs of the system, but that's easier if you have some background in other systems. You find your mental parallels.

So...bard...sure. Pretty solid choice, really, and there are multiple archetypes that would work well. Except of course for the entire section of their spell selection that's mind-affecting. Still, other than that, it's a good option.

Paladin would be a good plan, oracle could be better, but maybe not for a totally new player. Multiclassing them (born_of_fire's suggestion), while a very good option, could be very confusing for a newbie.

Shaman could also be a really good choice, but again it depends on how new of a player we're really talking about here.

(Sadly for this discussion) yes, he's entirely new to Pen&Paper RPGs of any kind. He is, however, an avid video game player (like all of the group), and while I don't know for sure, it's more likely than not that he played old-school RPGs in the line of Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, NWN, and all that. In any case, he'll have little trouble adapting to the system and the rules, but at the end of the day he's still new.

I'm not that worried about the party face part, though, as the Inquisitor can take care of it for the first few levels while he gets a hang of the system. What I'm most concerned here is suggesting a class that is at the same time fun to play and simple to learn for a new player, but also above average in terms of efficiency specifically for the Carrion Crown scenario. In short, he should feel like he has an impact on the game.

I'm sure I can find some Bard build to recommend that works with the Undead setting (Dirge Bard is a thing if I remember right?), but I'd love to have a few more suggestions apart from that, in case he doesn't like it. What else works in this - rather specific - situation we're in?

My general answer is when in doubt, go with a bard. And that is a pretty good answer here too.

With a 3 man party I generally prefer 3 versatile characters rather than 3 specialists (a 4 person party, 3 specialists and a versitile is pretty good, but you don't want to lose a whole specialty if someone goes down) and Bard fits that well.

The inquisitor and the bard, and eventually the Ranger will all have access to some healing magic, so that that shouldn't be much a of a problem.

The other option that isn't bad, and is similar in range but I think weaker in terms of strengthening the team, would be an alchemist.

Yep, bard was my thought as well, but it really depends on the idea a new player has about Pathfinder and similar games. For many, a bard just isn't heroic enough, it's not what they expect from an adventurer - at least from the first game. But in any case, it will definitely be my first suggestion, thanks!

Can I ask for some specific advice as to what type of Bard would be best? Not so much in terms of archetype, but in terms of combat focus? Of course presuming you know Carrion Crown well enough to help me our with specific advice. In any case, thanks for the tips!

Oradin for frontline and healing. Let the Inquisitor worry about the skilly stuff.

Alternately, a Seeker Sorceror since you completely lack arcane casting.

The Oradin seems too... gimicky for a new player, honestly. And it feels like it's not much better than a Cleric in terms of forcing him to do the job needed most for the AP. The Seeker Sorcerer sounds cool, though. I'll definitely suggest that if he wants to go the caster route. Thanks for the help!

Hello there! My group is going to start Carrion Crown very soon, but due to some IRL troubles we had to replace a couple of players, so now we're down to a 3 man party plus an additional fourth player every now and again. Currently we have a Dhampir Kinslayer Inquisitor (going jack-of-all-trades with skills and all apart from the excellent Undead killing abilities), as well as a Ranger (no idea the exact build, but most likely ranged, not TWF).

Our third player will join us in a few days to discuss our party and the AP and all that, but he's new to Pathfinder so I thought it would be a good idea to have some suggestions lined up. I know the gist of it, I get what CC is all about, and I definitely get the need for positive energy stuff in the beginning, but I don't want to force the new guy to play Cleric or some such. So help me out guys, please, and suggest non-cleric classes to fill out the party listed above (spoiler free, of course)!

For now I was thinking we could use a bard, both for the trapfinding and the diplomacy, plus the knowledge won't hurt, but it's a bit underwhelming to play a bard the first time unless it's really what you want. Any other ideas? [Oh yeah, and we will most likely have a 4th player join in every now and again, so some suggestions for that would be nice, but the 3 man core needs to be solid enough to work on its own.] Thanks in advance!

Feel free to PM me if you need anything else.

If your GM is willing to create an account to do so, I can give him more detailed advice or aid.

Happy gaming! ^_^

I'll do that if I ever need help again, thank you! And I'll tell the GM about your offer to help as well.

Vilverum Fae wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

For the most part, though, the APs are written for varied enough parties that you should be fine, especially with good prep. Remember to have a good kit - slashing and bludgeoning weapons, ranged weapons, potions of fly, etc.

Make sure you can cast cure spells. There's a cheap magic item in the first book, and you might be able to buy (or make) more. Weapons, though, are no good against haunts.

Well I think we'll be fine all in all. Definitely not planning to go anywhere without being fully prepared in terms of equipment and potions. We'll get a wand of CLW as soon as possible, and just be careful for the rest.

Can I ask for some non-spoiler hints about what exactly you mean by "weapons are no good against haunts"? Is there any other way of dealing with such events apart from Channel Energy (if that's a solution in the first place)?

Only positive energy works against haunts, and nothing else. Cure spells, and Channel Energy.

There's an item in the AP - you'll see - but it's not much.

Hm, the lack of Channel Energy will be a problem then. However, as I remember from skimming through the Haunts rules, you can destroy a haunt permanently only by doing a certain act à la Supernatural, the TV show - salting and burning the bodies, and the like. Can one do those things to destroy it before/without neutralizing the haunt first via positive energy? If so, then we should still be fine without a Cleric/Oracle, it'll just be a lot harder, right?

As for the suggestion about Occult Adventures, we don't really have the patience to wait for that. We will incorporate any items and such that show up in the book when it's released, but we need something else in th meantime.

Again, thank you very much for all the help, Kalindlara!

For the most part, though, the APs are written for varied enough parties that you should be fine, especially with good prep. Remember to have a good kit - slashing and bludgeoning weapons, ranged weapons, potions of fly, etc.

Make sure you can cast cure spells. There's a cheap magic item in the first book, and you might be able to buy (or make) more. Weapons, though, are no good against haunts.

Well I think we'll be fine all in all. Definitely not planning to go anywhere without being fully prepared in terms of equipment and potions. We'll get a wand of CLW as soon as possible, and just be careful for the rest.

Can I ask for some non-spoiler hints about what exactly you mean by "weapons are no good against haunts"? Is there any other way of dealing with such events apart from Channel Energy (if that's a solution in the first place)?

Here we go!

1) Broken Moon ends with a boss fight that wraps up the story to that point pretty elegantly. It's child's play to make that the conclusion of events.

I still highly recommend the whole story (we're in Book 6 right now), but if you have to stop after three books, CC is where you want to do it.

2) The APs are pretty easy for smart players. If your group has a cleric or oracle, you'll be fine. If you're the type of group that uses a lot of Player's Companions and such, it'll be a breeze.

It wasn't out when we started, but there's a feat called Bless Equipment that looks like a lot of fun.

3) You do not need gestalt for 3 players. Gestalt will crush this AP if you play with any level of optimization. I ran a gestalt campaign for 5 years - it's pretty ridiculous.

I would suggest 20 or 25 point buy and letting the xp naturally work things out. In my experience, three 25-point buy PCs were about right for an AP.

4) CC is a little more complicated - the biggest thing is understanding how haunts work. If he runs from the book, though, the monsters shouldn't be too bad.

5) In CC, a cleric is more important by far (at least for Books 1-3). Let Channel Energy be your fireball. ^_^

Any questions?

1) That sounds great! I myself am lobbying for CC, but some of the others are not so sure. But knowing that we can end after book 3 is a great + and will help us decide, thanks!

2&3) Well OK then, we'll just go for 6+2d6 stat rolls, should net around the same average stats as 20 to 25 point buy. Smart plays and being prepared go a long way as well, so I wasn't too worried, but we will be going with a no-xp approach, just levelling up as the AP recommends, at various points in the story. So even with 3 players, we'll still never be ahead in any way.

4) Are the haunts already present in the beginning of book 1? If he has a bit of time to get used to the other aspects of GM-ing before having to deal with haunts, he'll do just fine. And is there anything other than the haunts and the whole reputation thing with the town?

5) No Clerics in the party, I'm sure. An Inquisitor (me), and maybe an Oracle, but I doubt it. Low chance of channel energy, to be honest. However, I wasn't asking about the arcane caster part in terms of combat. It was more about out-of-combat utility (teleport, etc.), as well as the general fact that we'll be missing an entire bag of tricks. Are there any encounters/puzzles/moments where we'll be stumped without a wizard/sorc?

Thanks a bunch for the detailed reply, Kalindlara, it helps a lot!

Carrion Crown will be perfect for you. I'll explain in full when I'm on my PC... the website update makes it way harder to post from my phone. ^_^

Thanks, looking forward to the details!

Hey there! This is my first time posting on the messageboards, but I could really use your help, guys. Be warned, long wall of text incoming, and no TL;DR for obvious reasons. You can skip to the questions, though, but miss on background info.

So first thing’s first, you all need some background here. I’ll be starting a new game with several friends (new and old) this summer, and we’re looking to change up the setup a bit and have someone else other than me GM for a change. The new GM has decent experience as a player, but this will be his first time in the big chair. I myself am the most experienced at the table (having both GMed and played), with another person also having decent player exp. The other 2 players will be completely new to Pathfinder, but we all have serious board and video gaming experience, so it’s not all bad. [It’s also worth mentioning that I have a lot of faith in the new GM and am quite sure that he’ll live up to the challenge – so no advice on that part needed]

Now, our problem lies in choosing an AP to go with. After a lot of research on my part, scouring forums and the like, I’ve shortened the list of potentials to just two: The ever-recommended Rise of the Rune Lords (Anniversary Edition, of course) and Carrion Crown. Curse of the Crimson Throne made it to the last 3 as well, but after some preliminary discussions with the group it was sort of discarded – both due to the feeling that the new players would want something more iconic as a first experience, and because the whole urban feel didn’t sound appealing for anyone other than me (sadness…). Nevertheless, I’ll take recommendations for CotCT as well, and any other AP or set of modules you guys think works. My main request for help, however, is directly related to RotRL vs. CC.

As a final note before the questions: We will be playing in long sessions – full day or all weekend even - every two weeks for the next couple of months (and then tone it down to more standard sessions if we keep going after summer). So we could potentially work through a chapter of an AP in a single “session”, presuming the GM can prep all he needs and we don’t all get tired/bored after 20 hours of Pathfinder. Of course that might end up not working, but we’ll try it nonetheless.

Now, I read all about the pros and cons of each of the two APs, so I've come here to ask a few very specific questions instead. Things I couldn't find in other threads. So here goes:

1. Which of the two APs would be best if we end up stopping after just 2-3 books? Since I'm not sure how the whole group will work out in the end (player count, IRL problems, work, time constraints, etc.) we might very well end up stopping the adventure after a couple of months. My concern here is that if we go with RotRL and stop mid-way through, we’ll all be disappointed – epic quest with no conclusion and all that.

2. How hard is CC compared to RotRL for new players, especially if we end up with just 3 PCs? I’ve read in several places that CC is rather hard for certain setups (no cleric, for example), as well as being far more heavy on the quirky enemies with DR and such. How much harder is it compared to RotRL? Is the difficulty even worth considering when choosing between the APs as long as we play smart?

3. If we do end up running with 3 players (one of them new), will we need to go with Gestalt characters for CC in order to not die horribly? Or maybe just start at level 2 and always be 1 lvl ahead of the curve, so to speak? An NPC joining the party is out of the question, the new GM has more than enough on his plate as it is, and he won't feel confident enough to modify the CR of encounters and such either. So if he runs the AP as written, will 3 normal PCs be enough?

4. Is GM-ing Carrion Crown a lot more complicated than RotRL, or does it just seem that way at first glance? This is not about the whole horror atmosphere, we can cover that bit. I'm talking specifically about how overwhelmed a new GM would feel running each of the two, and if it’s a big difference. RotRL looks to me to be as standard as it gets, whereas CC has some additional rules and a lot of uncommon enemies/monsters the GM needs to learn to use.

5. Lastly, which of the two APs needs an arcane caster more? Judging by my friends’ initial thoughts, and my previous experience with them, I doubt we will have a single arcane caster at the table – this includes bards and such, and likely not even points in UMD for wands. On the other hand, divine magic will be aplenty, and we have the smash-over-head-hard aspect covered as well. Arrows and out-of-combat skills are also covered. Which of the two APs will be the hardest to play with no arcane magic on hand given these circumstances? (No spoilers though, please!)

That about covers it, I think. I might update the list of questions if anything else pops up. Thank you all in advance for any advice and help provided!