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I just wanted to confirm I get things right.
I have a 2nd level Abjurer in the game I’m DMing which is named Cath. Cath’s player is asking me if it is possible during downtime activities to make money out of her spellbook. Her spellbook currently have 13 0-level spells and 9 1st-level spells.
On http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html, it says that “Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.” It also says that the writing cost of 0-level and 1st level spells are respectively 5gp and 10 gp.
On http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/scrolls.html#scrolls, it says that the price of 0-level and 1st-level wizard scrolls are 12.5gp and 25gp. The spellbook itself is an adventure gear worth 15gp. For some reason though, it doesn’t specify that beside the spells within, you also selling the book itself at 50% (that would be 7.5gp).
So if she would sell her own spell book, she would sell it for : ((13*(5+12.5))+ (9*(10+25)))/2 = 271.25gp.
Of course, Cath is not stupid to sell her own spellbook. But she would love to make a copy of it and sold it after.
Copying a spell from a spellbook instead of a scroll means that Cath doesn’t need to actually buy the scroll. That would leave her with only paying for the writing cost (and a blank spellbook).
Rules also says : “Wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If he already has a particular spell prepared, he can write it directly into a new book at the same cost required to write a spell into a spellbook. The process wipes the prepared spell from his mind, just as casting it would. If he does not have the spell prepared, he can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.“
So she would only pay for half the price of writing. The writing cost of all her spells would be ((13*5)+(9*10))/2= 77.5 gp.
So if she pays 15 gp for a blank spellbook and copy all her spells into it for 77.5 gp, she would have a copy of her own spellbook that she could sell for 271.25gp, for a profit of 178.75 gp ? Writing spells takes 1 hour per page and 30 minutes for 0-level spells. Since she is duplicating an existing book, it also takes half the time. Ti time is then ((13*0.5)+(9x1))/2 = 7.75 hours, just a bit less than a “work day”.
So should her party decides to stay in town for a rest of one day, she could use that time to “work” and get 178.75gp profit in one day.
Do I get this alright??
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i'd say spellbooks fall under "treasure" for value that you get for finding them....
for anything that generates money see the Profession section under skills.
it takes forever to find a buyer, her profit equals her profession(scribe) skill roll.
Money is made adventuring, if you are spending your time scribing, congratulations, you just became an NPC that the party will hit up for scrolls later.
i'd say spellbooks fall under "treasure" for value that you get for finding them....
for anything that generates money see the Profession section under skills.
it takes forever to find a buyer, her profit equals her profession(scribe) skill roll.
Why would a spellbook X would worth more gold because it was found as part of a treasure rather than scribed if it is the exact same spellbook ?
Money is made adventuring, if you are spending your time scribing, congratulations, you just became an NPC that the party will hit up for scrolls later.
This is for a single day... your party has never taken single a day off ? Or any situation that a specific item is available in town and the party really want to buy but if few gold short ? I'm sure a reasonable party would agree to rest for a day in order to buy such desired item. I'm not sure why would finding a buyer would take so much time. Large city are full of magic shops.
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Wow, that math is pretty complex. I'm sure it's simpler than that.
Also, you assume the price to acquire the spell is based on scroll price, but it isn't. See below.
Finally, who's going to buy that book? A farmer? A town guard? A barkeep? A strumpet?
Nope, none of the above.
So then who?
A level 1 wizard? Maybe, but he starts with an identical book in his starting equipment package. His book has EVERY cantrip (no need to pay for them) and has 6-7 first level spells, probably duplicating some of the spells Cath is trying to sell. At best, he might consider buying that book to get her 9 level 1 spells (assuming he doesn't have any of them AND assuming he is interested in all NINE of her spells).
So, the buyer would only pay for the level 1 spells. At best.
Here are the relevant rules:
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
Table: Spell Level and Writing Costs
Spell Level..Writing Cost
0............5 gp
1............10 gp
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on Table: Spell Level and Writing Costs.
So the cost to write a level 1 spell into a spellbook is 10gp and the fee to acquire that spell is half that, for 5gp. Because Cath is copying from one spellbook to another, the cost per page is divided by 2, so the cost is 10/2=5gp. That will be her cost per first level spell.
To figure out the sale price, add that cost to the cost to learn the spell (5gp) and you get 10gp per spell. If she writes all 9 spells, that means the cost for "purchasing and inscribing the spells within" is a total of 90gp (not counting cantrips that nobody would ever want to purchase).
And because “Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.”, Cath should be able to sell this spellbook for 45gp.
Note that it does NOT say it's also half of the price of the blank spellbook, so that's perhaps negotiable with the buyer (GM) - she might just get the flat 45gp for the book. If she's lucky, she'll get another 7.5gp for the actual book.
But it will still cost her 45gp to write those spells plus 15 gp for the blank spellbook, so her cost to produce this copied spellbook is 60gp. So the best outcome is that she pays 60gp and sells it for 52.5gp, for a loss of 7.5gp.
This is not likely to be a profitable venture for Cath.
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Why would a spellbook X would worth more gold because it was found as part of a treasure rather than scribed if it is the exact same spellbook ?i'd say spellbooks fall under "treasure" for value that you get for finding them....
for anything that generates money see the Profession section under skills.
it takes forever to find a buyer, her profit equals her profession(scribe) skill roll.
Because the treasure you find is a game mechanic to support the "wealth by level" function to ensure player have access to the gear that they challenge rating system expects them to have so the game stays challenging but not impossible. The price is reflective of this
Money is made adventuring, if you are spending your time scribing, congratulations, you just became an NPC that the party will hit up for scrolls later.This is for a single day... your party has never taken single a day off ? Or any situation that a specific item is available in town and the party really want to buy but if few gold short ? I'm sure a reasonable party would agree to rest for a day in order to buy such desired item. I'm not sure why would finding a buyer would take so much time. Large city are full of magic shops.
And magic shops aren't PCs. The rules for using your downtime to make money are the profession rules. Anything that creates a sudden windfall that breaks the wealth by level guidelines should be killed by the GM in it's infancy.
Just because you have something that you want to sell doesn't mean someone who wants to buy it appears out of the ether. The profession rules provide the abstraction of having to keep a shop open to provide access for buyers until the right one arrives.
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Because the treasure you find is a game mechanic to support the "wealth by level" function to ensure player have access to the gear that they challenge rating system expects them to have so the game stays challenging but not impossible. The price is reflective of this
Hmmmm. That's a very gamist viewpoint. A more simulationist viewpoint might be to say that a found spellbook with certain spells would sell for EXACTLY the same price that a copied spellbook with the same spells would sell for.
Any other gamist viewpoint, while valid as a WBL game mechanic, is extremely disruptive to roleplaying, immersion, and verisimilitude. Some players find those things to be more important than simple game mechanics. Which is not to say you're wrong, but it is to say that your response is very unsatisfying to a large number of players.
Thank you for the explanation DM_Blake. Your math is making the value of the spellbook Cath found in the AP right. My maths was giving another value. Thanks again.
Because the treasure you find is a game mechanic to support the "wealth by level" function to ensure player have access to the gear that they challenge rating system expects them to have so the game stays challenging but not impossible. The price is reflective of this
As DM_Blake point, following Wealth per level kills roleplaying (at least for me) and in the AP I'm playing, it's clearly not following that rule. But after DM_Blake's explanation, copying spellbook to sell it is a loss anyway. Thanks for the input though.