Would it be possible to make a Kensai Magus with the job of attracting and mitigating the hits from the party onto himself?
I was thinking about using Flamboyant Arcana for Opportune Parry and Riposte. At one point, I could start combining True Strike to parry a hit per turn (probably when I get my second iterative), forwhatever that's worth.
Are there any other secrets to make a Magus tank?
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Mithral Chain shirt or Mithral Kikko armor can be a great investment on a Kensai Magus. Just need to put up with the 10% spell failure. Can go a long way to making you a "tank" though, especially if enchanted. Cast spells without S components don't have a failure chance at all. Some will be what you want to do -anyway- as a tank, such as blur and displacement, dimension door in front or away. True strike to hit those though targets.
If you are looking to be truly tanky, the Aldori Dueling Sword with the dueling mastery feat can be quite good. Gives +init and +2 shield bonus... Something a kensai has a tough time acquiring. Slashing grace works well here too.
Example Feats:
Human
[Kensai] - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[Kensai] - Weapon Focus (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[Human] - Weapon Finesse
[1st] - Slashing Grace (Aldori Dueling Sword)
[3rd] - Dodge
[5 Magus bonus] - Quickdraw
[5th] - Aldori Dueling Mastery
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Shield's on the Magus spell list. It's pretty easy for them to get a Shield bonus. Dueling Sword still isn't a bad choice, mind, but the shield bonus doesn't matter all that much.
I'm not really a fan of dealing with the ASF, personally. You're talking at best +5 AC, which should really only matter at the lowest levels. As you grow you get both of your key stats to AC so you should be fine.
Yes and no. For the early levels I wore a Mithral chain shirt with pride on my Kensai. I eventually picked up a way to cast Mage Armor, then stopped wearing it. However it could still be incredibly useful to someone who wants to be a true tank. Focus on spells that don't have spell failure anyway. Enchanting the armor is amazing, something you can't do otherwise, that is where it will quickly outpace mage armor.
Point buy isn't that big to merit a Monk dip. At best I would lose a class level for 2 AC. Improved Unarmed Strike is tempting for some combat style, but I like the spell blending idea, while wearing a haramaki before the arcana.
If I don't pick Power Attack... Do you think a Magus has the attack bonus to make use of Combat Expertise? This is with the aid of Threatening Defender to reduce the penalty by 1.
I also think that Shield as a spell is probably better than going full hog on ADS, particularly because I was looking forward to using an Estoc!
Here's a thought: multiclass between Kensai and Monk. Add your Wisdom bonus in addition to your Dex and Int bonuses to your AC.
Pick a Monk Weapon for your Chosen Weapon, like maybe a 9-ring broadsword or a Temple Sword. Now you can Flurry with your Chosen Weapon.
I'm not 100% sure this will work. I'm just thinking.
Flurry + Spell Combat is an open question.
And that implies that you'll have three good stats, alongside the ever-needed Con. Which is... kind of unlikely.
With a large enough point-buy it's viable, but you do need a pretty large point buy since going Monk means losing the Haramaki.
I would personally mix in master of many styles with iron mountain monk archetypes. Drops the flurry thing (Flurry and spell combat are separate actions to my knowledge anyways so they shouldn't mix).
So master of many styles into crane style (I see this as a popular choice for magus as they're forced to keep their offhand free anyways).
Do it for 2 levels so you can get 2 free style feats (crane style + crane riposte are a good combo early because you don't get the opportunity attack but you reduce the penalty down for fighting to defensively to -1).
Then iron mountain monk is an extra +1 natural armor bonus in place of evasion.
Now. that all said i'm not a fan of this either way. As stated you're going to be pretty stat dependent. Either you're going to have some ridiculous point-buy going on or your DM is letting you roll your stats (and which point good luck).
In all honesty monk is a nice mix-in for a high-dex (and dex to dmg) build who wants to drop their armor and do that.
Kensei gives a similar option but the tradeoff is it progresses slower meaning you don't just have insta-defense like monks do.
But you can get a harumaki (which unless your game is running innate items bonuses is going to be better than bracers of armor by a long shot, and even if they are using the rules allowing the bracers to go to +10, the harumaki is just a free +1 to AC.)
If you want a slightly sillier idea dip Oracle or VMC oracle.
Take the lore mystery and grab the revelation to get Charisma to AC instead of Dex. Grab the eldritch scion archetype for charisma-based casting.
So similar to kensei your casting-stat is going to your defense but now without giving up the ability to wear armor.
Take whatever bloodrager bloodline you want, arcane and celestial being said as best. Kyton can be fun if you want to ditch the armor still as its +4 armor bonus that turns into +8 later.
Most importantly this will let you effectively be full-charisma and then drop your attack stat into strength, freeing up some feats for the whole dex-path deal.
As if you want dex to damage normally without swashbuckler or unchained rogue dips you either need to get dervish dance (the old magus classic).
or
Weapon Finsesse, Weapon profficiency Dueling sword, slashing grace (dueling sword is one of the few finessable one handed slashing weapons)
So in my opinion you won't be able to be as ridiculous ac-wise and will be somewhat dependent on armor still but the upsides are better weapon freedom as well as a decent amount of feat freedom. Then you can use the oracle levels for some self-healing support (broad study if you want to cast some cures on yourself right away).
Doing this though i'd take a 1 level dip into oracle over variant multi class as you probably won't get much more out of the lore mystery outside of Charisma to knowledge checks as well with another revelation. (unless you're feeling extra crazy and want to mystic theurge this though i'm personally not a fan of using magus for that then).
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Power attack isn't a good idea for a tanky Magus.
Frankly - it's generally not a good idea unless you're two-handing & a full BAB class (situational when only one or the other) - a magus does neither.
Besides - if you're going for tankiness - a magus should focus on dex with either Dervish Dance or Fencing Grace. Don't waste any points on Str (consider dumping a bit - no armor to haul around anyway) - so you won't qualify for PA anyway.
Consider being a Wayang. They have the right stats, and the small size gives you an extra +1 AC/to hit. The lesser damage die is negligable to a magus.
My wife has a kensai in PFS and she draws a lot of aggro with it. She actually wasn't looking to either, it just happens when you hit that hard. Damage will attract the attention you are looking for (or kill it, still solves the problem) and a magus is usually pretty good at that.
I wonder what a crossblooded sorcerer dip would do for a magus? You could pick up Mage Armor from it and you could go something like Orc/Blue Draconic for even more shocking grasp damage. If it works for an evocation wizard it should work for a magus, but I haven't seen anyone try it.
In my experience Magi tend to have strong if not outstanding saves. They have strong fortitude and will save progressions with very strong incentive to invest in dexterity. They won't compete with monks or paladins, but they're better off than most other melee classes.
The thing I find most interesting about magi tanks is that they can adapt their combat approach to whatever situation they're in. Most tanks build to prioritize either offense (CAGM etc) or Defense (shield, turtling). The magi is one of the few classes who can change his priorities to match the needs of each fight. If you need to grab someone's attention, a spellstrike Shocking Grasp will do the job admirably. If you already have the attention and not to improve your defenses, you can Spell Combat up Shield or Mirror Image.
I played a Kensai Blackblade and had a great AC and absolutely attracted attention. Between high damage, great initiative, and extra mobility from things like bladed dash, I was generally out there and in the middle of things attacking all the attention. Mostly this worked out really well, but there were a few times when I got in over my head.
If you have really good Dex and Int you can have a great AC with a Kensai.
Blade tutor's spirit is a 1st level magus spell that reduces attack penalties.
You, sir, are a national treasure. This is exactly what I needed to make a Combat Expertise build work, I just need to see how I can exploit Combat Expertise further.
If you want a slightly sillier idea dip Oracle or VMC oracle.
Idea:Take the lore mystery and grab the revelation to get Charisma to AC instead of Dex. Grab the eldritch scion archetype for charisma-based casting.
El no worko with VMC. Lore Mystery does not include Sidestep Revelation as one of the allowed revelations of the VMC. You need to dip Oracle
Power attack isn't a good idea for a tanky Magus.
Frankly - it's generally not a good idea unless you're two-handing & a full BAB class (situational when only one or the other) - a magus does neither.
Actually, that's not true. The math is in already - even a TWF Paladin benefits from Power Attack greatly.
A 2H Inquisitor or such also greatly stands to gain from PA.
The thing I find most interesting about magi tanks is that they can adapt their combat approach to whatever situation they're in. Most tanks build to prioritize either offense (CAGM etc) or Defense (shield, turtling). The magi is one of the few classes who can change his priorities to match the needs of each fight. If you need to grab someone's attention, a spellstrike Shocking Grasp will do the job admirably. If you already have the attention and not to improve your defenses, you can Spell Combat up Shield or Mirror Image.
This what draw me as well.
Sadly, I'm probably not going with Weapon Finesse unless I do really poor on the attribute rolls.
Blade tutor's spirit is a 1st level magus spell that reduces attack penalties.You, sir, are a national treasure. This is exactly what I needed to make a Combat Expertise build work, I just need to see how I can exploit Combat Expertise further.
If you want a slightly sillier idea dip Oracle or VMC oracle.
Idea:Take the lore mystery and grab the revelation to get Charisma to AC instead of Dex. Grab the eldritch scion archetype for charisma-based casting.
El no worko with VMC. Lore Mystery does not include Sidestep Revelation as one of the allowed revelations of the VMC. You need to dip Oracle
Well, it would appear so. I only glanced at it and I was under the impression it let you just do "oracle-things" but i guess its not that fancy. Honestly its a 1 level dip for that idea anyways so VMC would be a bigger hindrance.
As for the Combat expertise one i know there's a trait that reduces the penalty by 1 making your first early levels free. Honestly though it sounds like that spell will help you as the penalty reduction goes down by 1 for every 5 caster levels and a Magus's BAB doesn't progress that fast so its not like you'll ever have to care about the penalties with that spell. ( beleive the trait is called Threatening Defender).
Funny thing is if you get that trait i will note one thing "reduces the total penalty on affected attacks by X"
So that trait becomes even more valuable because you can stack Crane Style/Crane Riposte's -1 penalty to attack to fight defensively on top of this and still have to take no penalty (because assuming you're level 2 or 3 and used MoMS to BS you way into crane riposte you're taking a -1 to fight defensively as well as Combat expertise taking a -0 for a +1 due to the trait.
I'd say as a tank though a quicken metamagic would be a more important thing as Shield+Blur+Blade Tutor's Spirit+ect... is alot of buffing to do your job. You can spell-combat your way into them but obviously don't want to wade into combat too quickly without throwing a few things your way.
As for things to do with your combat expertise its funny, the skill has little use outside of being a prerequisite and having that trait, it doesn't have a whole lot of benefit that you can invest into.
I do know one thing that can be neat:
Archon Style: The feat chain is all about granting allies bonuses to defense and throwing attacks at yourself to grant allies attacks (and yourself if it managed to hit you). Be prepared to be the secret service of your party as you throw yourself into attacks though.
It requires combat expertise but with Blur alone before all these AC boosters you're immediately more qualified to risk a hit than the rest of the party, even more so with the AC second line of defense.
Butterfly's Sting also opens up to you so a high-crit weapon is your friend.
One final bit, Hexcrafter mixes with bladebound as well. I don't think it works with kensei though. But, Evil eye hex is silly fun for this because you can -2 their attack or defense (-4 later). Which allows you to be tank-ish as well, just in a more-debuffy-y-form, as well as being able to add the curse descriptor spells to your list of spells as well as spellstrike with them later for more debuff fun.
(That and instead of the arcane mark cheese you can use the inquisitor's brand cantrip as its a curse descriptor spell, that deals 1 damage).
Probably won't work well with all the stuff above for ideas but funny thing about Magus is they're really interesting in how many ways you can build them.
1. No Stamina, sadly.
2. I was thinking of going full hog on Necromancy spells for Vampiric Touch focus. Good/bad idea? Early levels, focus on Defending Bone.
3. I like the Archon Style angle! I wonder if I could get the GM to let me use the Monk VMC to get all those tricks.
1. No Stamina, sadly.
2. I was thinking of going full hog on Necromancy spells for Vampiric Touch focus. Good/bad idea? Early levels, focus on Defending Bone.
3. I like the Archon Style angle! I wonder if I could get the GM to let me use the Monk VMC to get all those tricks.
1. Not a huge deal. Honestly i feel stamina is better in the hands of a fighter/cavalier/barbarian type as they're probably going to have higher constitution. Some powerful, others having hefty costs.
2. Vampiric touch is fun. As a whole i'm not sure how much diversity you'll get out of necromancy with the magus's spell list, but at the same time the magus is just throwing on defensive spells and reserving some the remaining spell slots to some damaging touch spell (or ray for close range).
Your damage will probably be on the more lackluster side comparatively but you'll have some level of debuffing until you finally get vampiric touch.
3. Monk VMC will get you the unarmed strike giving you the feat prereq for the style as well as a few extra things.
But this will have the downside that you'll have to pick up the feats normally rather than ignoring prerequisite levels using master of many styles monk levels to get the 2nd and 3rd feat right away.
So comparison for these choices:
Monk VMC
UP:
1. No multi-class dips.
2. Still get prerequisites for style feat.
3. Get evasion/improved evasion/+3 dodge bonus to AC.
DOWN:
1. Get bonuses pretty late.
2. Lose half your potential feats.
3. LOSE ALL BONUSES IF WEARING ARMOR! Yeah you lose all of these abilities if you wear armor meaning Haramaki is out and we're in bracers-of-armor-vill permanently.
Monk:
UP:
1. Master of many style bonus feat cheese.
2. Can ignore the AC thing or embrace it (personally would rather use a haramaki especially if you have a super low wisdom score).
3. Evasion (or +1 natural armor and toughness as a bonus feat if you mix the iron mountain monk archetype with master of many styles)
4. Can take later once the class has had a chance to properly grow and you want your style feats.
DOWN:
1. 2 levels lost in magus, which levels lost in a spellcaster are always nasty.
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Power attack isn't a good idea for a tanky Magus.
Frankly - it's generally not a good idea unless you're two-handing & a full BAB class (situational when only one or the other) - a magus does neither.
Actually, that's not true. The math is in already - even a TWF Paladin benefits from Power Attack greatly.
A 2H Inquisitor or such also greatly stands to gain from PA.
An Inquisitor is nearly full BAB for this calculation due to all their ways to boost accuracy, and the Magus is mid BAB, not a lot of accuracy boosters, and wields one-handed. Even for Inquisitors - it will only usually be useful - there will be many fights where it won't be worth using and it'd only be holding you back slightly due to the opportunity cost used when taking the feat.
In addition - much depends upon the level it's done at. Power Attack's sweet spot is generally levels 5-10ish. For the first couple of levels accuracy is such that any penalty to hit hurts too much. At high levels the accuracy penalty and other static damage are both far too high to be worth it, as the accuracy penalty goes up as a % and the static damage goes up numerically, and at 11 full BAB characters gain their third iterative.
As an extreme example - at BAB +20 they take a -6 penalty to-hit for +18 damage. Totally NOT worth it any time you can get a full attack (by 20 you should have pounce or at least a situational equivalent) against anything with even a mediocre AC, as a single miss caused by the -6 (likely) would lose you far more damage than the +18 gets you. (at 20 a martial would be easily doing 60+ damage per swing without PA)
Where is the cut-off? Debatable & situational.
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I played a high ac kensai tank in pfs. I splashed 2 levels of urban barb for times when I had to melee spike, and would use my spell combat to buff myself (typically haste, then shield, then spell strike with Ray of enfeeblement and touch of gracelessness. The problem I had was that I ultimately couldn't leverage any effective way to force enemies to attack me. Had I the feats free (and I didn't as adm is not cheap) I would have gone with antagonize and extra traits to get the trait that lets you use int for a cha skill (using the diplomacy side of antagonize) and the step up and strike/disruptive/standstill chains to force things to engage me in melee.
Yeah, that doesn't work. Channel FAQ, general rule: "unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately"
I'm not saying they do stack (I honestly don't know) but if they don't, it's not because of the FAQ you just quoted. The reason they may not stack is because it's from the same source.
What do you guys think about Stalwart + Improved Stalwart on a Kensai?
Would it stack with the likes of Stone Skin?
Yeah, that doesn't work. Channel FAQ, general rule: "unless an ability specifically says it stacks with similar abilities (such as an assassin's sneak attack), or adds in some way based on the character's total class levels (such as improved uncanny dodge), the abilities don't stack and you have to use them separately"I'm not saying they do stack (I honestly don't know) but if they don't, it's not because of the FAQ you just quoted. The reason they may not stack is because it's from the same source.
Actually all dodge bonuses stack, and Canny Defence is a dodge bonus.
You can never benefit from blundering defense, as you can never be adj. to yourself. Furthermore, while you can fight defensively and two weapon fight, I would be hard pressed to say that adding a swift action to activate stance on a class with swift action starvation is optimal. And yes, you have to activate the stance to gain it's benefit. Adding in parry and riposte just exacerbates the problem with your swift activation abilities. I'd recommend combat expertise over the amateur swashbuckler stuff because where fighting defensively is a standard/full round action allon its own, combat expertise is just an attack modifier.
I'm not sure where you get that from. Here is a link to the feat Crane Style which says:Specifically for crane style's first bonus no though.
The feat clearly separates the passive bonuses to fighting defensively and the active bonuses of the stance.
Benefit: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.
You can only gain the benefits of a style feat if you spend the swift action to activate it. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Also no one mentioned amateur swashbuckler. Flamboyant arcana that gives you party/riposte is either way a prerequisite for arcane deed which is one of the most powerful arcana magi have access to (+lvl damage passivly)
Apologies. I've been reading too many threads about characters using amateur swashbuckler. Although I would point out that precise strike will get you table variance since it calls out fighting with two weapons, and spell combat is considered two-weapon fighting.
Magi in general don't have that much problem with swift actions:
*At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute.Magus Arcana: Arcane Accuracy (Su): | Critical Strike (Su): | Hasted Assault (Su): | Reflection (Su): | Spell Shield (Su): | Accurate Strike (Ex): | Arcane Edge (Su): | Arcane Redoubt (Su): (and by default greater) | Lingering Pain (Su): | Prescient Attack (Su): | Prescient Defense (Su): (there are more if you have different archetypes, but those are the basic, and I didn't look at non-core books.)
I just realized you can pick up Arcane Deed: Dizzying Defense...
Dizzying Defense (Ex): At 15th level, while wielding a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon in one hand, the swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to take the fighting defensively action as a swift action instead of a standard action. When fighting defensively in this manner, the dodge bonus to AC gained from that action increases to +4, and the penalty to attack rolls is reduced to –2.