My group recently acquired some iconic minis and their associated ACG cards. We're at a point where we haven't received any check marks on our character cards yet, but each deck has a decent amount of non-basics.
If we wanted to rebuild a character to include the character's owner card, would the rules allow this sequence of events to happen:
1) Player X trades all his non-basics for basics with his party.
2) Player X dismantles his deck
3) Player X creates a new deck using cards from his former deck + owner card (keeping the card type count restrictions in mind)
4) Player X trades all of the previously handed off basic cards back to their respective owners in return for his previous cards.
The sequence of moves would be limited by the number of basic cards available for each card type. If there are an insufficient number of basic cards for any number of types, then an equal number of non-basic cards are returned to the box.
Is this all compliant under "Between Games"?
Thanks all.
If you aren't playing Organize Play but just a home game, then I say just swap it in. The owner cards are cool. If you'd had it back when you first started, you probably would have put it in (and it would be legal to do so). So next just let them have it if you want.
If you aren't playing Organize Play but just a home game, then I say just swap it in. The owner cards are cool. If you'd had it back when you first started, you probably would have put it in (and it would be legal to do so). So next just let them have it if you want.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Let's say we're sticklers for rules, though. Do you think what I outlined above is against the rules?
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I don't see anything in the "Between Games" section of the rules that would allow you to dismantle a deck and rebuild it; the only way to add a new card to your hand is to encounter and acquire it during play (or to gain a card feat of the appropriate type and have to fill it with a card chosen from the box). So, strictly speaking, you should add the "Iconic Heroes" promotional card or cards to the box, and hope they show up during play.
(That's for regular home-game play; while OP is slightly different, the same general rules apply - you'll have to use a post-scenario card upgrade to get the card into your hand if you didn't pick it at deck creation time. But at least you only need to qualify to 'upgrade' a boon of the appropriate type - any upgrade lets you choose a 'P' card from your deck box)
That having been said - in my home game I allow players to swap out one boon of the appropriate type and replace it with a card listing their character as the Owner when I get a new "Iconic Heroes" set. Of course the only players are myself and my wife, playing two characters each, so it's fairly easy to get this house rule accepted by the entire table!
Let's pretend you are playing Kyra and want to get her owner card. By the rules, her is what you could do:
1. After a scenario Kyra gives all her non-basic cards to other players. The other players rebuild their decks keeping as many as possible of their and Kyra's non-basic cards. Kyra rebuilds with the leftovers.
2. Kyra's players decides to choose a new character to play. He chooses Kyra again. He builds her a deck of all basic cards including the Blessing of the Dawnflower, which she can put in her staining deck. Must of her other cards are really just the basic cards the other people didn't keep so they could keep her non-basic cards. As long as it is basic, she can build her deck with it.
3. At the beginning of the next scenario, everyone trades Kyra back her non-basic cards ahs she gives them the basic ones they wanted that she built her deck with.
Is that legal? Yes. Is it worth all that effort? No. It is practically no different than what I suggested, which is to just give her the card. You have no feats, so starting a new character doesn't cost you there. And odds are if you have no feats you don't have many non-basic cards, so the temporary trade shouldn't be a problem. But save yourself the time, you bought a great product, you deserve to use that card. Go ahead, just swap something for it. Mike will never know.
That being said, in my S&S group with Calthaer, we've just added them to the box as we got them. And the first time we had Lini's cards Lini fit both of them as a reward. One from a chest, and one as the scenario reward. It was awesome.
".. you bought a great product, you deserve to use that card. Go ahead, just swap something for it. Mike will never know."
. . Respect!
Hey it's your game... Play as you enjoy it. That being said my group is loving the challenge and all the little subtleties the designers put much effort into.
It's creepy that Hawkmoon knows all the things. I'm not pretending to play Kyra; I'm playing Kyra. How did he know? :o
I get what you're saying, Hawk, regarding how the change is insignificant and it should just be allowed. Like Zenarius, our group really enjoys the game, and we try really hard to play as much by the rules as we can.
I also feel bad for our Adowyn and Enora as they have no iconic minis. Although, if they did, I'd try really hard to steal the Occularium Vestments.
I respect your respect for the rules and that you don't want to break them to get a card. The rules are great. But at the same time, the rules aren't really meant to cover every situation. They aren't meant to answer the question "What should I do if I get this card as part of an associated product which, if I had been able to purchase it a few weeks earlier, I could have included that card in my starting deck?"
A while back it was pointed out that, by the rules, you could technically build a new character after starting deck 3, build their deck from all basic cards, and then have them die during the scenario as a more effective way to remove basic cards from the game. The rules don't prohibit it.
But that isn't what the rules are supposed to be. We aren't supposed to look for loopholes in them. We are supposed to let them guide our fun. Someone might argue that doing what I said our group did (adding them to the box and acquiring them normally) is more in keeping with the rules. But in truth, it isn't. The rules contain no guidelines for adding cards except for when you start an adventure deck and this:
We have also published a number of promotional cards; these are marked with the letter P in the upper right corner. If you have a character promo card, or you have a promo card with the Owner trait and you are playing the character listed as the owner, you can use it right away. Don’t add other promo cards to the game until you begin the first chapter of the Adventure Path.
You could argue that, by the rules, if you don't have the promo card when you start deck deck 1, it shouldn't get added at all. Of course, subscribers I'm sure all add in the promo cards that come with each month. Do you wait until you start the deck it came with or add it right away if you've already started deck 1. And they also don't seem to cover what I said I did, adding the iconic heroes promos to the box once you get them.
The rules are great. Respect the rules.But play for the fun (which it sounds like you do). The Dawnflower smiles upon Kyra. You can just let her have her card.
Besides, you are going to have a much bigger problem on your hands when Enora comes out (hopefully in a few months) and you've all got a few feats already and you won't be able to trash the existing character without consequence. The Vestments are pretty sweet.
But save yourself the time, you bought a great product, you deserve to use that card. Go ahead, just swap something for it. Mike will never know.Vic agrees with Hawkmoon.
Ok! I'm not going to disagree with both Hawkmoon and Vic. Thank you.