So first off I'd best say that my players and any other players currently playing the Trial of the Beast should really stay out of this thread.
Go on.....scoot.
So my players have now investigated the scenes of the Beast's alleged crimes at Morast, Hergstag and Karb Isle. Due in no small part to the Druid's crazy perception bonus, they have found pretty much every piece of physical evidence there is to be found. They've also been pretty good at putting 2 and 2 together and working out the significance of the evidence.
My players have gotten pretty invested in the fate of the Beast and the trial's outcome, so I'm looking to make this part of the adventure even more exciting for them and work up some more paranoia. They're also quite attached to Gustav...despite his limitations as a Barrister.
To make things a little more challenging for them I decided to have the villains responsible for the crimes at Morast and Karb Isle interefere and try to either throw the party off the scent or sabotage their chances of proving the Beast (or Hank Merrick as one of them now refers to him) innocent.
The players spent the morning of the first day of the trial trying to figure out who the surgeon's tools found in Morast belonged to. As it closer to time for the trial to actually start two of them kept chasing down leads, while the Bard and Ranger headed back to the Courthouse with the evidence they'd gathered so far.
I had the villains track those two and take an opportunity to use some sleight of hand as the PCs pushed their way through the busy crowd outside the Courthouse. The surgeon's tools have now been lost. The villains are also taking steps make sure the one person who could actually link them to the tools won't be around to be called as a witness.
At this point my players are fairly convinced that someone connected to the Trial (one of the Court officials probably) is passing information to the real culprits. I'm thinking of playing with this suspicion a little.
I'm considering having Vorkstag the skin stealer use his abilities to replace either a possible witness, or a more risky move and try and replace Gustav Kaple to bodge the cross-examinations. Would the Holy Sister of Justice detect the presence of the skin stealer with her constant use of 'Detect Magic'? Would be rather anti-climactic to have him tripped up by a simple cantrip.
Anyone else who ran the game think Vorkstag could pull something like that off? Or have him interfere in similar fashion?
I think he could... just make sure you don't over-do it and leave them with nothing to go on. If that happened, though, a little overconfidence might lead to a mistake on his part. ^_^
How intuitive/deductive are your players? How good are they at piecing together a story when variables are missing? How good are they at convincing the court without some of their evidence?
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As long as the trouble is coming from Vorkstag, you should be okay. Keep in mind that AV needed the beast, so framing him would be counterproductive.
Kalindlara wrote: I think he could... just make sure you don't over-do it and leave them with nothing to go on. If that happened, though, a little overconfidence might lead to a mistake on his part. ^_^
How intuitive/deductive are your players? How good are they at piecing together a story when variables are missing? How good are they at convincing the court without some of their evidence?
Three of them are very new to Pathfinder (and rpgs in general) with one more experienced player. They've turned out to be very intuitive/deductive so far in this book. Got the significance of the clues from Morast very quickly.
They've found pretty much every scrap of physical evidence there is so far, and on the first day of the trial proceedings the party's Bard aced every diplomacy check he had whilst presenting evidence. That, combined with the fact that they'd managed to talk Lazne (the village elder from Morast) into having a few doubts about what he saw the night they drove the 'Beast' into the swamp, means they're already well on course to winning their case.
While they were somewhat annoyed about losing the surgeon's tools to a pickpocket they're also quite happy it happened.....add's a bit more spice to things and now they're sure someone in town has a vested interest in framing the Beast.
My thinking behind Vorkstag getting directly involved was that he has heard some of the rumours regarding the Party and their deeds in Ravengro and is worried that they, being more competent investigators than poor Gustav, may uncover his involvement.
And he may almost definitely be a little overconfident....
Awesome. Sounds like my group. ^_^
How long do you have to plan/until next session? I'm a bit busy tonight, but I'll be back to help as my schedule allows. It sounds like there's a lot of room to work here, plot-wise...
I'll be running a session tonight, which will mostly be the players going over and discussing the evidence they found at Karb Isle...and frantically pestering Kendra Lorrimor at the University of Lepidstadt(they left her with a Wand of Restoration...and are currently suffering some effects of fatigue, having barely stopped over the last couple days).
Then there's the second day of the trial....my plan is that Vorkstag won't try and interfere too directly yet until he sees for himself the progress the players have made. Vorkstag will be in the public gallery for this day's evidence.
Probably his first throw of the dice will be to use one of his other identities to whip the crowd up for the potential lynch mob that evening....if the players successfully disperse the crowd then he might feel desperate enough to try and replace Gustav for the final day of the trial.
Of course that same night the players may well be breaking in to Vorkstag's own premises....
Kalindlara wrote: Awesome. Sounds like my group. ^_^
How long do you have to plan/until next session? I'm a bit busy tonight, but I'll be back to help as my schedule allows. It sounds like there's a lot of room to work here, plot-wise...
Well having run the second day of the trial with all the Herstag evidence I think Vorkstag will definitely be getting quite worried now.
The Bard nailed every diplomacy check by miles and the party also pretty much discredited the prosecution witnesses by hammering home the fact that the last child who died happened well after the Beast was driven off, there was no way he could have gotten to the final victim without leaving a trail and neither of his supposed 'victims' showed any signs of violence (which they would have done if killed by someone as brutish as the beast).
My plan for next session is to have Vorkstag join the mob and act as one of the ring leaders, trying to incite them to violence. Probably he'll be noticed by Caleb of the Crooked Kin, who knows of the person Vorkstag is impersonating and might warn the players that their behaviour seemed a bit off.
If the mob fail to gain access to the courthouse and drag the Beast out to be burned then Vorkstag might get desprate....he'll send word to his associate Grine, then make his way to Gustav's house planning to replace the barrister.
The players know they need to gain access to the Chymic Works...but they are worried that just breaking in might compromise any evidence they find....so far their efforts to bluff or talk their way in have been rebuffed by a very suspicious Grine. (Played him up as incredibly rude and aggressive toward the PCs when they tried to talk to him).
Caleb's warning about a dour, dull merchant type suddenly acting as an impassioned, firebrand rabble-rouser combined with their on suspicions regarding the skinned face they found in Morast should put them on the lookout....so there's a chance they might decide to follow this 'ring leader' when the mob disperses....or follow the courier with the note he sends.
It sounds like you have things worked out pretty well. ^_^
Kalindlara wrote: It sounds like you have things worked out pretty well. ^_^ Has been a very, very quiet day at work so far....
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May have hit a slight stumbling block with my players.....their characters are an incredibly law abiding bunch! (who would have thought!)
They've successfuly dispersed the lynch mob without causing any death or major mayhem. They spotted the ringleader that Caleb had described to them, and they'd been waiting for something like this since finding that poacher's face in Morast. They also intercepted a note Vorkstag was sending via runner back to the Chymic works informing Grine he was going to try another plan (on indication of what he was planning though)
So now they have plenty links and leads pointing at Vorkstag and Grine....but they are balking at getting in to the Chymic works. They're worrying that any evidence they discover could blow their defence of the Beast by being inadmissable.....bless their little lawful cotton socks.
Any other GMs have a similar issue? How did you resolve it?
At the moment I'm considering having Caleb or Kendra give them a little nudge toward asking Judge Daramid to provide them with a warrant for a search of the premises. I'm a little surprised they haven't thought of that themselves, they've been pretty good at putting things together so far and figuring things out without much hand holding.
Steering them back to the judge would be a good idea if they are stuck on this because they don't want to break in.
Some other random thoughts:
You could also throw in a knowledge local check to determine what the laws of the land actually are. Do they actually need a legal warrant or can they enter based on the evidence they've already collected? The law may be that they are legally justified for entering, but if their search turns nothing up then they would be forced to make whatever reparations the owner demanded. Should they commit a crime while doing so, then there may be additional trouble. Look up the laws of some other countries for some ideas; not everywhere is as stringent as our laws.
If you think that they will decide on something more like a stake-out, prepare to give them something that they can't resist going in after. Something like some henchmen carrying a body-size canvas. The thing inside could be struggling if they need obvious signs. Or if already dead, they could find a set of blood drops coming from it.
You could also use something like a small explosion go off and a fire starting while on stake out. That should spur them to barge in at least under the premise of helping. This would add additional environmental hazards while inside as well.
Finally, there is always scrying. I can't remember if the partners were said to have any sort of scrying wards up or not.
Well the judge did say that she needed to distance herself from the investigation, so that might be why they are reluctant to contact her.
My players were very much the same. Luckily, the rogue wanted to try and take a peek inside and climbed over the wall. Once the golem attacked, they were committed. :)
If they confided in Kendra, she could raise the question about asking the judge. She could even act as the courier so that they keep their distance from the judge. Even though she is connected with the party, she is less conspicuous than Caleb, and her father knew the judge so there is a personal connection.
What are the laws of Ustalav regarding evidence? Would kicking down the doors of the Chymic Works be a crime if they were right? Would it poison the evidence? Search warrants are not universal and you have to decide if they are needed.
Given Ustalav's nature, I personally decided that a person's position was the most important factor in what they could get away with. Since the party were accepted as defenders of The Beast, I gave them some limited authority in that regard. It also didn't hurt that the party had a Paladin and it was they who summoned the town guard as soon as the fight was over (no one in the vicinity wanted any part of what was going on inside the building).
While there might not be search warrants the Judge might give them a green light and work through her agents in the Palantine Eye to ensure that the party has no legal issues. For example, she might send and officer from the guard to the Chymic Works to loiter by the building. When the party arrives he just says "The judge sends her regards". He will say that he requested that the character enter the building.
justaworm wrote: If you think that they will decide on something more like a stake-out, prepare to give them something that they can't resist going in after. Something like some henchmen carrying a body-size canvas. The thing inside could be struggling if they need obvious signs. Or if already dead, they could find a set of blood drops coming from it. I like that idea. The body struggling in the bag could be Gustav! Vorkstag might need to interrogate him so that he can pass as him the next day in the trial.
Griffyn Maddocks wrote: justaworm wrote: If you think that they will decide on something more like a stake-out, prepare to give them something that they can't resist going in after. Something like some henchmen carrying a body-size canvas. The thing inside could be struggling if they need obvious signs. Or if already dead, they could find a set of blood drops coming from it. I like that idea. The body struggling in the bag could be Gustav! Vorkstag might need to interrogate him so that he can pass as him the next day in the trial. Actually I rather like that. Definite possibility. Thanks gents.
I think I'm just slightly surprised by their reluctance as I'm used to RPG parties pretty much saying "We're big damn HEROES...and we do what we want!" then kicking in doors willy nilly and interrogating anyone they like without regard for local law enforcement.
And I've certainly done that as a player myself I should add. If I'd been in this party I'd have probably stormed the Chymic works at the first tangible link to the case. (Probably been killed by the golem hound too considering my usual luck with dice rolls....)
fatbaldbloke wrote: And I've certainly done that as a player myself I should add. If I'd been in this party I'd have probably stormed the Chymic works at the first tangible link to the case. (Probably been killed by the golem hound too considering my usual luck with dice rolls....) You are certainly not alone there. If I remember right, the actual adventure was written with the assumption that the PCs just barge in, even after being told to go away. That is quite a bit laziness on the developers' parts.
It might be a word count issue - they had to fit a lot in there, what with the Trial, the Chymic Works, and Castle No Handrails. ^_^
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Kalindlara wrote: Castle No Handrails. ^_^ I know, right? I'm currently running this and it is an OSHA nightmare. Fortunately, none of the PCs has any ranks in Profession (lawyer).
fatbaldbloke wrote: Any other GMs have a similar issue? How did you resolve it? The party was similar as far as the law goes. However, they went back to the Sanctuary and used the spirit planchette from Haunting of Harrowstone. I was able to use that to suggest Vorkstag's involvement, which was enough probable cause to warrant an incursion.
So maybe have one of the NPCs suggest something like that?
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quibblemuch wrote: Kalindlara wrote: Castle No Handrails. ^_^ I know, right? I'm currently running this and it is an OSHA nightmare. Fortunately, none of the PCs has any ranks in Profession (lawyer). Not kidding - one of mine did. She was kind enough not to mention it to the Count, though.
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Kalindlara wrote: It might be a word count issue - they had to fit a lot in there, what with the Trial, the Chymic Works, and Castle No Handrails. ^_^ Ahah....so that's what Caromarc means eh?
Really the Whispering Way are just misunderstood...they were just trying to highlight the Count's flagrant disregard for proper Health and Safety protocol.
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