Purely for the very obvious flavor.
Classes could be swashbuckler, sorcerer, eldritch scion magus, bard... anything that likes charisma and dexterity, basically.
An immediate thought is to make some sort of sorcerer, since 9-tailed foxes are typically very magical. Another option I like is to use magic to augment a normally only martial class, the swashbuckler. Or maybe ranger.
Basically, 8 feats is a very hefty cost. What can afford it, and work well with the kitsune's racial traits?
8 feats is a very hefty cost.
Try "crippling". You want a class that doesn't really need feats to shine, and you'll never have a "power build". But that's okay.
Personally I'd take it in an odd direction: Paladin. It's a class that, like the Kitsune, has more of a magical air than its actual spellcasting justifies. And there's plenty of room for the flamboyance to do those nine tails justice. Just keep an eye on that Lawul alignment...
There is a kitsune sorcerer enchanter build, or more correctly a number of builds, that specialise in enchantments to capitalise on the excellent favoured class bonus. Well, if it is not the best favoured class bonus in the game, its very close.
If the favoured class bonus applies to spell-like abilities {SLAs}, then this is a possibility. Half of the extra tails SLAs are enchantments after all.
This may not be the most powerful way of building a Kitsune enchanter, but its a powerhouse and the character will be pretty powerful. All depending on the rules question about SLAs, to which I don't know the answer.
There is also the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype for Sorcerers and Oracles. It is third party however.
Another possibility is a rogue. The extra tails give abilities that work very well with what rogues do.
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Rogue might actually be your best bet here. Unchained has made being a dex based rogue much easier. The big advantage is at 10th level you can take the advanced talent feat, which gives out a bonus feat with no restrictions. This makes getting your 6th, 7th, and 8th extra tail happen at 10, 11, and 13 rather than 11, 13, and 15. Dex to hit and damage by level 3 with no feat investment is very nice.
I like a Slayer for this; you have tons of bonus feats to make up for using your standard feats on the tails. The only problem is that you want dex-to-damage without spending feats on it... which means waiting for Agile. Not something you want to be playing at level 1.
or..a spin-off
take a lunar \nature\ lore oracle (for the cha instead of dex for ac revolution) and dump your dex. max cha and str and go melee with spells blazing!(spa dont care for armor fail chance etc).
i would go with lunar for that animal campanign as well. you fight, have a team-mate , cast divine spells from class and arcane from race. 1 stick-team-man ;)
Taking the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype Sorcerer may be a power option if allowed.
You get your tails for Bloodline Spells not feats. And you still get a bloodline, which you can use to expand the range of beings you can enchant. It could be real powerful.
Taking the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype Sorcerer may be a power option if allowed.
You get your tails for Bloodline Spells not feats. And you still get a bloodline, which you can use to expand the range of beings you can enchant. It could be real powerful.
True, but the Tails offer you SLAs, so...
Sorcerer or Oracle using that archetype is possibly the best way to get all 9 tails.
Have you perhaps considered the fighter? While certainly not a strong class, it does throw a metric crapton of feats at you. It shouldn't be too difficult to pick up the feats you'd need to get dex to damage or a ranged build, so it has that much in its favor at least.
True, but the Tails offer you SLAs, so...Taking the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype Sorcerer may be a power option if allowed.
You get your tails for Bloodline Spells not feats. And you still get a bloodline, which you can use to expand the range of beings you can enchant. It could be real powerful.
Not sure what you mean.
If you mean you gain more than you lose, yes, that is the idea.
Not sure what you mean.True, but the Tails offer you SLAs, so...Taking the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype Sorcerer may be a power option if allowed.
You get your tails for Bloodline Spells not feats. And you still get a bloodline, which you can use to expand the range of beings you can enchant. It could be real powerful.
You trade spells for spell-like abilities. You swap your spell list by the Kitsune's spell-like abilities.
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True, but the Tails offer you SLAs, so...Taking the Nine Tailed Mystic Achetype Sorcerer may be a power option if allowed.
You get your tails for Bloodline Spells not feats. And you still get a bloodline, which you can use to expand the range of beings you can enchant. It could be real powerful.
Not sure what you mean.
If you mean you gain more than you lose, yes, that is the idea.
As the guy who wrote the archetype, I would disagree.
You trade your bloodline spells for a Magical Tail feat every time you would have gotten a spell. While you ultimately end up with additional "castings" in the sense that each spell-like ability is usable two times per day, the spell-like abilities from the Magical Tail feat are often lower-level than the bloodline spell you traded for them. For your final one, you're trading a 9th-level spell known for a 5th-level spell-like ability usable 2/day.
Its a good archetype; it was intended to be. But I don't think you necessarily gain more than you lose. In fact, I would strongly argue that its a fair trade.
Alexander- What you say is perfectly true imho. By level 20 you would have traded a spell known of each level for 18 castings of SLAs of various levels, which on average are of much lower level than the spells.
But you can still cast as many spells per day as a sorcerer of another bloodline, you just have one less of each level to choose from.
So at level 20 the Kitsune mystic has a net one less spell of SLA to choose from in return for 18 castings of SLAs. The big loss is one less spell to choose from in each level.
That said, my post was ambiguous. My bad. What I meant was I would rather lose 9 bloodline spells than 9 feats. Which I think is fairly uncontroversial.
And I like the Kitsune Mystic archetype, good but not excessive power with excellent flavour. I have wanted to play a Kitsune for some time, and might play a Kitsune Mystic enchanter with the Kitsune Bloodline, which I also like. If you are going to be a Kitsune, why do it by halves.
While I have the attention of someone who writes pathfinder stuff, I figure you likely know the answer to a rules question I raised in my first post one this thread, specificly-
"There is a kitsune sorcerer enchanter build, or more correctly a number of builds, that specialise in enchantments to capitalise on the excellent favoured class bonus. Well, if it is not the best favoured class bonus in the game, its very close.
If the favoured class bonus applies to spell-like abilities {SLAs}, then this is a possibility. Half of the extra tails SLAs are enchantments after all."
I have to ask, what do you get at 9 tails exactly? The feat stops at 8 tails for spells at least.
Fighter is the only class that really has the feats to be able to do the 9 tails thing, and anything else.
The sorcerer archetype is also a good option.
I have to ask, what do you get at 9 tails exactly? The feat stops at 8 tails for spells at least.
You already have a tail, so the first feat gives you your second tail and so on.
Alexander, could you tell me something?
The witch has patron spells, which are similar to mystery spells or bloodline spells, so...
Can your archetype be applied to the Witch, replacing the patron spells by the feats?
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It is 3rd Party material but is the best way to go about it. It is a very balanced Archetype.
Otherwise it is not worth taking them all as feats.
But something that would be nice to see is a Swashbuckler/Fighter type using Vulpine Pounce. It is less of a feat investment and well Pounce is pounce...it speaks for itself.
Alexander, could you tell me something?
The witch has patron spells, which are similar to mystery spells or bloodline spells, so...
Can your archetype be applied to the Witch, replacing the patron spells by the feats?
I'm not an expert designer by any means but I guess the Witch benefits more by this trade as while spontaneous casters have an hard time expanding their repertoire, wizard, witches and magi can just buy the spells for their spellbook or familiar so losing patron spells for the witch is much less detrimental than it is for oracle and sorcerer to lose bloodlines and mystery spells, unless you're going to lose useful spells that normally aren't on the witch list.
I think a fairer trade would be to give up some Hexes too.
Actually by thinking about it a nice witch archetype would be one that gives you the choice every time you learn a new hex to take an additional tail instead, like the Hex Channeler does for the channel energy d6
Alexander, this one is free :)
Have you perhaps considered the fighter? While certainly not a strong class, it does throw a metric crapton of feats at you. It shouldn't be too difficult to pick up the feats you'd need to get dex to damage or a ranged build, so it has that much in its favor at least.
I'd have to agree fighter is your best option as you get access to all of the feats while still having bonus feats to have alot of room for build to be decent at stuff.
A possible option as well is go human with racial heritage in your bonus feat giving you a lot more build flexibility as then you don't have to give up strength at all making melee an option.
A good option as well is doing a few levels into rogue (unchained rogue of course) getting weapon finesse/dex to damage with melee weapons if you want to that. But a fun idea is getting into the "Counterfeit mage" archetype and abusing the favored wand feature allowing you to be even more pseudo-magic-y by avoiding UMD checks for a specific wand (and some mild bonuses to UMD checks as well depending on how far you go into the class).
Otherwise I wouldn't venture any further into magic though as the tailed thing is a neat idea flavor-wise but in practice the spell-like abilities you gain are pointless when you have a set of actual spells to work with.
The Nine-Tailed Mystic is actually designed around the Expanded Arcana feat, from the Advanced Player's Guide. That feat gives you one bonus spell known at your highest level at the cost of a feat. I figured that bloodline spells (which are always at your highest level when you obtain them) were also similar in value to a feat, so it ends up being a one-for-one trade. That's the design space that the archetype is balanced around.
As a result, it doesn't really work all that well for witches, because bonus spells added to their spell list / familiar don't cost feats. Honestly, patron spells probably cost less than a feat because the witch isn't limited in how many spells she can have at her disposal. Its sort of like the mystic past life trade for samsarans (the one that adds all of the spells to your spell list), and that racial trait's worth 5 rp, which is about the same as two feats. So trading patron spells might be fair for two Magical Tail feats at most, but certainly not eight to nine.
Yes, but since Extra Hex is a feat, wouldn't giving up Hexes for additional tails follow the same design strategy?
Or Magus giving up Arcana?
Rogue might actually be your best bet here. Unchained has made being a dex based rogue much easier. The big advantage is at 10th level you can take the advanced talent feat, which gives out a bonus feat with no restrictions. This makes getting your 6th, 7th, and 8th extra tail happen at 10, 11, and 13 rather than 11, 13, and 15. Dex to hit and damage by level 3 with no feat investment is very nice.
Yep! This is my usual approach. The main downside is weak saves. I recommend the Irrepressible trait (so Cha stands in pretty well for Wis), a fort-boosting trait if you can swing it, and the Swashbuckler archetype that allows you to take the Combat Trick talent twice- the second time around, grab Battle Cry for a number of rerolled failed saves per day for you and your friends, so long as you don't mind giving away your position. Sanctified Rogue also boosts saves a little.
Yes, but since Extra Hex is a feat, wouldn't giving up Hexes for additional tails follow the same design strategy?
Or Magus giving up Arcana?
This is what I suggested indeed and it seems a fair trade on paper.
On could make a point about the magus spending points from the arcane pool in order to attain extra castings of the tail spells
Rogue might actually be your best bet here. Unchained has made being a dex based rogue much easier. The big advantage is at 10th level you can take the advanced talent feat, which gives out a bonus feat with no restrictions. This makes getting your 6th, 7th, and 8th extra tail happen at 10, 11, and 13 rather than 11, 13, and 15. Dex to hit and damage by level 3 with no feat investment is very nice.Yep! This is my usual approach. The main downside is weak saves. I recommend the Irrepressible trait (so Cha stands in pretty well for Wis), a fort-boosting trait if you can swing it, and the Swashbuckler archetype that allows you to take the Combat Trick talent twice- the second time around, grab Battle Cry for a number of rerolled failed saves per day for you and your friends, so long as you don't mind giving away your position. Sanctified Rogue also boosts saves a little.
The best solution to fortitude saves for Rogues is the Twist Away feat combined with a ring of ferocious action. You get Stalwart!
The best solution to fortitude saves for Rogues is the Twist Away feat combined with a ring of ferocious action. You get Stalwart!Rogue might actually be your best bet here. Unchained has made being a dex based rogue much easier. The big advantage is at 10th level you can take the advanced talent feat, which gives out a bonus feat with no restrictions. This makes getting your 6th, 7th, and 8th extra tail happen at 10, 11, and 13 rather than 11, 13, and 15. Dex to hit and damage by level 3 with no feat investment is very nice.Yep! This is my usual approach. The main downside is weak saves. I recommend the Irrepressible trait (so Cha stands in pretty well for Wis), a fort-boosting trait if you can swing it, and the Swashbuckler archetype that allows you to take the Combat Trick talent twice- the second time around, grab Battle Cry for a number of rerolled failed saves per day for you and your friends, so long as you don't mind giving away your position. Sanctified Rogue also boosts saves a little.
That solution takes a feat, though. A nine-tailed build doesn't really have those to spare. Battle Cry is the best combat feat option for saves I know of, and Swashbuckler lets you pick it up without passing up TWF.
i've posted this before in similar threads, but +1 for fighter. I played a high Cha kitsune fighter with the dangerously curious trait for a while. he had enough feats to afford the tails and still be effective in combat, and between the tails and UMD had a lot of fun options not available to most fighters. now that familiar folio is out i'd strongly consider trying it again with an Eldritch Guardian fighter (with a fox mauler familiar), though their lost bonus feats early on would really make it a slow starter...
Playing an enchanting fey sorcerer would be really thematic. You could pick up the Overwhelming Beauty trait. This combined with kitsune's magic will net you a +4 to the DCs of some of your enchantment spells.
Yes, but since Extra Hex is a feat, wouldn't giving up Hexes for additional tails follow the same design strategy?
Or Magus giving up Arcana?
Sure, but I was responding to a question that asked if it would be fair to give up patron spells for nine tails.
Playing an enchanting fey sorcerer would be really thematic. You could pick up the Overwhelming Beauty trait. This combined with kitsune's magic will net you a +4 to the DCs of some of your enchantment spells.
I actually made such a character, but it uses the 3rd party archtype.
The point was to add some potency to the spell-likes.At lvl 10 i have +7 to Compulsion DCs, at a +7 charisma modifier. I do not use the trait, but i dont think i need to.
Note: i decided to not post the character sheet yet as i plan to use it as a backup for a group i have, and i rather not spoil it all quite yet ^^;
Personally I like paladin 2/ninja 10/X. You can still use a master trick to pick up all the tails by 13th level. And you get smite+sneak attack+invisibility.