Triceratops animal companion powerful charge and Strong Jaw spell

[Erich L]

The PFS Additional Resources opens up triceratops as a legal AC from the Bestiary. Similarly, it opens up the 4th level druid spell Strong Jaw from the APG, which treats a natural attack a 2 size categories greater. The triceratops' powerful charge doubles the dice damage of a charge, creature listing goes from 2d10+12 to 4d10+16. The 7th-level adjustment for a companion gore is 2d6 with a 20 Str., so base damage with Power Attack is 2d6+11. Improved Natural Attack (gore) feat ups this to 3d6+11, then 6d6+11 with powerful charge, and 12d6+11 with Strong Jaw? I ask this because the Base Damage by Size chart doesn't go that high so you have to extrapolate. Thanks for checking my numbers!

[Sior]

Improved Natural Attack and Strong Jaw do not stack, sadly. Both up the effective size, so you only take the larger one (in this case, Strong Jaw, I believe.)

[Acedio]

(Flagged for rules forum)

[Sior]

I just hope he sees it here.

[Quintin Verassi]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterFeats.html#improved-natu ral-attack

According to PRD (I don't have my books on hand at the moment), Improved Natural Attack does not increase size, but increases damage by a step on a customized chart.

[Sior]

Improved Natural Attack wrote:

as if the creature's size had increased by one category.

Strong Jaw wrote:

as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is

Per the FAQ, they are the same type of bonus and only the greater is used. They do not stack.

FAQ wrote:

The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one.

[FLite]

No, it is "as if size had increased by one" that is an effective size increase, and strong jaw is an effective size increase (this is agreeing with Sior, in case that wasn't clear)

Doubling anything should always be the last step.

So it should be:

2d6 (7th level)
4d6 (+2 steps, higher of strong jaw and improve natural)
8d6 (charge doubles)

Now if you can enlarge it, that would stack. (you get one size increase, and one effective size increase) so:

2d6 (7th level)
3d6 (enlarged)
6d6 (+2 steps, higher of strong jaw and improve natural)
12d6 (charge doubles)

Hope you brought lots of d6 and are a fast counter.

[Nefreet]

Coincidentally, this same misunderstanding was just had in another thread.

Here is the original FAQ request, asking if Strong Jaw and Improved Natural Attack stack

...and...

Here is the FAQ response that "no", they do not.