| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is the sensor on a magical trap part of the trap that can be detected and disabled, or do you need to be able see the sensor itself to detect the trap or reach the heart of the trap itself through the sensor field somehow to disable it without setting it off?
All too often i see dms trying to be clever and placing the Trap around the corner, or under something so that the trap can't be approached without going through the sensor. The problem is that it completely negates the ability to detect and disarm traps that are supposed to have perception and disarm dcs.
The sensor is a part of the trap.
All traps—mechanical or magical—have the following elements: CR, type, Perception DC, Disable Device DC, trigger, reset, and effect.
The "sensor" you're talking about is the trigger. The trigger is a part of the trap, and therefore is treated as prt of the trap for purposes of perception and disarm.
Nothing in the Disable Device skill says that you have to be located at the effect part of the trap. You can disable a trap from any part of the trap: the trigger or the effect.
preaching to the choir my fine fuzzy lun.. erm. Friend.
|
Definitely worth a FAQ.
I can see it working both ways for different kinds of traps, and I'm not sure which of those the rules intend (with or without trap spotter).
The way I see it, magical proximity triggers probably can't be spotted/disarmed, but mechanical triggers likely can. But that's assuming certain things which aren't defined anywhere.
There's only a handful of sensors/triggers for magical traps:
Alarm, detect spells, clairaudience, clairvoyance, arcane eye, and true seeing (dark vision may be attached to arcane eye or clairvoyance). For specific spells that function as traps, the sensor/trigger is written in the spell description.
A character with the trapfinding class feature or trap spotter rogue talent is able to both detect (perception) and disarm (disable device) the magical trap from its magical sensor/trigger. This is legal per the rules of the game,
Yes:
Magic: Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps. Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.
A successful Perception check (DC 25 + spell level) detects a magic trap before it goes off.
Magic traps permit a saving throw in order to avoid the effect (DC 10 + spell level × 1.5).
Magic traps may be disarmed by a character with the trapfinding class feature with a successful Disable Device skill check (DC 25 + spell level). Other characters have no chance to disarm a magic trap with a Disable Device check.
I was inaccurate about the trap spotter. A character must have the trapfinding class feature to disarm magica traps. Trap spotter allows the character to detect the trap from with 10' of any pet of the trap - the trigger or the effect.
Edit: I misread you. And again I was inaccurate. Only a trapfinding class feature allows you to *disarm* a magical trap.
Per the rules, anyone can *detect* the trap with a perception check.
Yes:
Magic: Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps. Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.
A successful Perception check (DC 25 + spell level) detects a magic trap before it goes off.
Magic traps permit a saving throw in order to avoid the effect (DC 10 + spell level × 1.5).
Magic traps may be disarmed by a character with the trapfinding class feature with a successful Disable Device skill check (DC 25 + spell level). Other characters have no chance to disarm a magic trap with a Disable Device check.I was inaccurate about the trap spotter. A character must have the trapfinding class feature to disarm magica traps. Trap spotter allows the character to detect the trap from with 10' of any pet of the trap - the trigger or the effect.
Edit: I misread you. And again I was inaccurate. Only a trapfinding class feature allows you to *disarm* a magical trap.
Per the rules, anyone can *detect* the trap with a perception check.
That doesn't clarify anything. It's the "detect the trap from with 10' of any part of the trap - the trigger or the effect" that's under debate, and none of this actually says that.
Some people interpret that to mean that you actually have to be within 10' of the trap source or sensor for trapspotter to work or in line of sight to detect it with normal searching.
The rules state that you can detect a trap with perception or disable a trap with disable device. .
The trap definition is:
All traps—mechanical or magical—have the following elements: CR, type, Perception DC, Disable Device DC, trigger, reset, and effect.
All but three of those are meta game elements. In game elements are the trigger, reset, and effect. This is how a trap is defined.
Since disable device allows you to disable a trap, and since it does not specify that you have to be at the effect to disable it, it follows that you can disable the trap from all the elements of the trap.
That is the intention of the author... who wants to turn the trap into an auto hit for the poor schmuck in front.
These traps are legal... they're also a dick move for a DM or module author who puts them in more than once in a blue moon. They're bad fortress design since it doesn't allow your own people to move in that corridor safely. If there is a disarming switch, than THAT becomes a valid target for trapspotter.
Why on earth wouldn't EVERY magical trap be immune to trapspotter and disarm? Gods know i'm hardly the biggest fan of rogues, but if your interpretation means that their signature abilities simply never work I've actually managed to overestimate the class. An interpretation... and you have to realize that your position is an interpretation, not a rule, that neuters an already marginal class ability/ role has to have a little more behind it.