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1) Often though, you can tell without counting rooms when you're fighting the BBEG. Dramatically speaking, you really should be able to tell most of the time. There might be other rooms left, but this is the real fight.
While true sometimes - it's a smart enemy (the kind that doesn't reveal their evil plan as the heroes now have no chance of stopping them!) who disguises a lackey as them, and has said lackey act as if he were the BBEG. Then the heroes will blow all of their best spells on him, leaving them weakened for when the real BBEG steps out from 'behind the curtain'.
1) Often though, you can tell without counting rooms when you're fighting the BBEG. Dramatically speaking, you really should be able to tell most of the time. There might be other rooms left, but this is the real fight.While true sometimes - it's a smart enemy (the kind that doesn't reveal their evil plan as the heroes now have no chance of stopping them!) who disguises a lackey as them, and has said lackey act as if he were the BBEG. Then the heroes will blow all of their best spells on him, leaving them weakened for when the real BBEG steps out from 'behind the curtain'.
The best of times.
From a certain level on 4 fights just is not enough time to expend all your spells. Most fights last only 3-4 rounds with perhaps some mop up duty left after that. That's 12-16 rounds of combat. At level 7 a wizard has 5+4+3+2 spells (assuming int 18 and not counting cantrips) plus one specialist spell per level + one spell from bonded item + school powers.
So that's 19 spells + school powers. Even if you have 4 long fights of 4 rounds each and only used spells, no school powers you should have 3 spells left. At higher levels or with higher stats the number is even bigger.
And few casters I know use 4 spells in a 4 round fights. Simply because it is a waste of resources. With 3 Spells per fight those 19 spells last for 6 fights. And that's without being miserly.
This still means jack if the rest of the party needs to stop; when the healer says they're done, EVERYONE'S done.Which is kinda the point of this thread. :PHere's something I've never seen anyone bring up:
When there is no healing, even martial classes succumb to a 15 minute adventure day.
I witnessed this in my current campaign. No one is playing a healer, and at low levels they couldn't afford any magical healing items (scrolls, wands, potions...). Now, they at least have a couple of magic items, so it helps a bit - and they rexently allied with an NPC cleric - but it still means shorter adventuring days when they're low on HP and have to return to heal up.
Look four posts up from yours, it's all i'm talking about, mostly ^_^ and agreeing with you.
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From a certain level on 4 fights just is not enough time to expend all your spells. Most fights last only 3-4 rounds with perhaps some mop up duty left after that. That's 12-16 rounds of combat. At level 7 a wizard has 5+4+3+2 spells (assuming int 18 and not counting cantrips) plus one specialist spell per level + one spell from bonded item + school powers.
So that's 19 spells + school powers. Even if you have 4 long fights of 4 rounds each and only used spells, no school powers you should have 3 spells left. At higher levels or with higher stats the number is even bigger.
And few casters I know use 4 spells in a 4 round fights. Simply because it is a waste of resources. With 3 Spells per fight those 19 spells last for 6 fights. And that's without being miserly.
Spells get expended for other stuff though, research, investigation, and bypassing obstacles.
Also, the quality of the spells comes into play. I've seen wizards who delegate lower slots to utility only spells with maybe a few defense options.
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Spells get expended for other stuff though, research, investigation, and bypassing obstacles.
Not to mention pre-combat buffing. At the very least, every wizard will use a first level spell each day for Mage Armor. Often one or more for Shield and/or Mirror Image and/or Displacement if they know they're about to go into a fight.
But - no one is saying that by mid level wizards are likely to run out of spells entirely, even in a slog. However - they need to actually hoarde their good spells for when they really need it, or they'll be stuck casting their low level spells at the BBEG.
From a certain level on 4 fights just is not enough time to expend all your spells. Most fights last only 3-4 rounds with perhaps some mop up duty left after that. That's 12-16 rounds of combat. At level 7 a wizard has 5+4+3+2 spells (assuming int 18 and not counting cantrips) plus one specialist spell per level + one spell from bonded item + school powers.
So that's 19 spells + school powers. Even if you have 4 long fights of 4 rounds each and only used spells, no school powers you should have 3 spells left. At higher levels or with higher stats the number is even bigger.
And few casters I know use 4 spells in a 4 round fights. Simply because it is a waste of resources. With 3 Spells per fight those 19 spells last for 6 fights. And that's without being miserly.Spells get expended for other stuff though, research, investigation, and bypassing obstacles.
Also, the quality of the spells comes into play. I've seen wizards who delegate lower slots to utility only spells with maybe a few defense options.
Then just factor in the 7+ uses of combat relevant school powers that nearly every school has and you free up 7 spells.
And if you want more utility spells just use ones in combat that are good for several rounds like flaming sphere. As I said, 3 spells per combat is casting them without being miserly. You can stretch them MUCH thinner and still more than carry your own weight.
Edit: I had a witch run through a complete dungeon full of undead (immune to most strong hexes) that took us several sessions to complete and still won us the BBEG fight because I still had relevant spells left.
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I've yet to see in about four decades of gaming, the astounding amount of caster dominance that people in this venue claim is prevalent as the Black Plague once was. Maybe it's the people I've gamed with, combined with my own gaming style when I myself run casters.
I think your explanation for not seeing it is right on the nose. In my experience, as long as everyone follows the railroad, and the casters play the way they're "supposed to" play, then everything is jake. It's when a caster player stops and actually looks at what his spells are capable of -- that's when disparity appears. And when a smart caster player shrugs off the shackles of "supposed to" and actually uses the tools at his/her disposal, then everything quickly goes off the rails, requiring massive DM fiat to re-balance.
Ideally, the game would be less easy to break, by writing the spells with most peoples' self-imposed limits already in mind -- i.e., by making those limits written into the game rules, rather than handled at the table on an ad hoc basis.
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And if you want more utility spells just use ones in combat that are good for several rounds like flaming sphere.
Right - I agree entirely - and while flaming sphere is handy because it's useful for multiple rounds - using it is far from dominating a combat. I believe that was kind of the OP's point. When the wizard can't afford to nova, they can't dominate.
I wouldnt say it helps balance the two, but it does encourage much more teamwork. I usually try to never let the players know how many more enemies they will face throughout the day, (unless some sort of special divination is involved).
I will be trying the new Stamina system from Unchained, to see how it will affect the game by letting everyone have character resources to manage.
I do foresee a minor conflict between choosing to recharge stamina, or continue onward with the short duration buff spells.
When the wizard can't afford to nova, they can't dominate in combat.
True with the bold caveat added. But the casters' true power, again, is in their ability to shape the narrative, not in their ability to kill mooks.
In a game that consists mostly of unavoidable combat encounters, lined up one after another, a longer day means a weaker caster. But when you've got a class that can, at some point, bypass encounters at will, keeping the other classes from feeling like sidekicks takes a lot more work. A previous example:
Imagine this scenario: the party is in room #432 of the Big Dungeon. They've pretty much gotten what they went in for, but there was still a level to "clear." They finally run into an encounter that's a bit too much for them to handle.
• The monk says, "I'll use my super-speed to run away while you all get killed!"
• The rogue says, "I'll hide and hope they don't smell me and eat me! You guys are on your own!"
• The fighter says, "Get behind me in the hall and run for the exit! I'll keep them occupied!" He then proceeds to get cut to ribbons because there's no one there to heal him anymore, and the monsters chase down the party and eat them as well.
• The cleric says, "I'll plane shift us all to Elysium, where we can all heal at double the normal rate and no evil things will dare come for us!" and they can all do that right then, and the monsters can't follow them.
And, yes, you can declare that every encounter area from 5th level on is in a magical no-plane-shift no-divination zone, but what you're doing at that point is, in essence, rewriting those spells out of the game.
Spook205 nailed it - more encounters in the adventuring day encourages a caster to conserve resources and work better with their team.
And yeah, if the party only partially assaults an enemy complex and then leaves to go recover spells, the complex and what the bad guys are doing should change as an result.
Some of the more interesting encounters I've both been in and run came from the party having to go through a fairly grueling dungeon/fortress/etc. all in a single run, because there will be dire consequences if they don't.
An AP adventure that does that fairly well is Wake of the Watcher - the final battle of the final dungeon is a mere ECL+1, but it's gotten some entries in the obituary thread because parties are often running on fumes by the time they encounter it - and retreating from the thing is a completely catastrophic choice.
Some of the more interesting encounters I've both been in and run came from the party having to go through a fairly grueling dungeon/fortress/etc. all in a single run, because there will be dire consequences if they don't.
At some point, casters have the tools to find where in the fortress they need to go, move everyone there, and then leave after 1-2 encounters -- without wasting time and resources on the rest of the "dungeon." Unless, of course, every fortress in the world is selectively anti-magic (which, again, is basically rewriting spells but claiming you're not).
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Some of the more interesting encounters I've both been in and run came from the party having to go through a fairly grueling dungeon/fortress/etc. all in a single run, because there will be dire consequences if they don't.At some point, casters have the tools to find where in the fortress they need to go, move everyone there, and then leave after 1-2 encounters -- without wasting time and resources on the rest of the "dungeon." Unless, of course, every fortress in the world is selectively anti-magic (which, again, is basically rewriting spells but claiming you're not).
If the enemies that you fight are all idiots.
Not that you can't teleport away. But unless they're stupid - they'll be ready to ambush you when you -rather predictably- come back for the next 1-2 encounters. (And there's no rush to get your objective done.)
But yes - at high levels it becomes easier to do so.
Not that you can't teleport away. But unless they're stupid - they'll be ready to ambush you when you -rather predictably- come back for the next 1-2 encounters.
Why come back? Divination + transport = go straight to objective. Not necessarily scry-and-fry, either; some variant of find the path + wind walk can also be useful.
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Some of the more interesting encounters I've both been in and run came from the party having to go through a fairly grueling dungeon/fortress/etc. all in a single run, because there will be dire consequences if they don't.At some point, casters have the tools to find where in the fortress they need to go, move everyone there, and then leave after 1-2 encounters -- without wasting time and resources on the rest of the "dungeon." Unless, of course, every fortress in the world is selectively anti-magic (which, again, is basically rewriting spells but claiming you're not).
If a caster is being allowed to scope out an entire fortress with easily spotted scrying sensors (remember folks, it's only DC 20 + spell level to spot the sensor unless the spell has its own rules), teleport directly to the BBEG without issues, engaged and kill the BBEG without pulling massive reinforcements, and then leave without any issues, your GM is being very easy on you.
The GM's also being easy on you if all you need to do is win a single fight and leave. For example, the dungeon in Wake of the Watcher has multiple objectives in it, requiring the party to explore pretty thoroughly. If they started at the final battle, they'd need to do the dungeon in reverse, pretty much (though now that I think about it, most of the dungeon would be coming to them).
(Also, don't even need to rewrite spells. Private sanctum, forbiddance, and teleport trap, all say "hello," and I'm sure there's more.)
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If a caster is being allowed to scope out an entire fortress with easily spotted scrying sensors, your GM is being very easy on you.
There's a LOT more to the school of divination than the [scrying] spells.
(Also, don't even need to rewrite spells. Private sanctum, forbiddance, and teleport trap, all say "hello," and I'm sure there's more.)
Which means every BBEG is a full caster, not a martial. Which kind of underlines the point, n'est-ce pas?
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Not that you can't teleport away. But unless they're stupid - they'll be ready to ambush you when you -rather predictably- come back for the next 1-2 encounters.Why come back? Divination + transport = go straight to objective. Not necessarily scry-and-fry, either; some variant of find the path + wind walk can also be useful.
There's also some debate as to whether just scrying allows one to be able to teleport somewhere at all.
I think that, while the spellcaster may become less effective over time as they run low on spells and such, this is much the same with all classes, as martial classes become low on hit points and other classes lose their panache or grit or ki or whatever. Plus, it's not as if a caster can completely run out of spells. They will always have cantrips, which are more helpful then you think, and if worse comes to worse then they can wade into combat with a staff or dagger. Hell, near the end of the day a caster may have even more hit points then the martial classes of the group! As someone mentioned earlier, the familiar can also serve helpfully both in combat or out. Even if they can't hit hard themselves, they can always act as a flanking buddy, or you can give 'em a wand. They can also serve as an effective scout, and a number of familiars have commune once per week as well, which can help a lot if the party needs an important detail or something. In the end, while the caster may be quite negatively effected, this definitely doesn't render a smart caster useless.
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Which means every BBEG is a full caster, not a martial. Which kind of underlines the point, n'est-ce pas?Or he has one on his payroll.
Edit: Ninja'd by 18 seconds.
The problem with that is that the counters are usually higher level than the spells themselves (teleport trap is 7, teleport 5, for example). Which means the BBEG's flunky is tougher than the party by themselves.
Because BBEGs can't contract their defenses to people more powerful than they are? I didn't mean that said wizard would be their flunky, just that they have the potential to hire them.
Frankly - in a high magic world such defenses would likely become standard for all major fortifications, or they wouldn't be worth building at all.
My DM actually allows scrying and teleporting, but when ever someone makes the attempt, they always end up teleporting into something and being impaled, or cut in half, or losing a limb. Things like that. Which brings up another thing most people don't discuss about spellcasters. If a spellcaster screw up a spell, they fail SPECTACULARLY, like the fireball explodes in their face, or disintegration turns the party rogue into dust. The spellcaster debatedly wields the most power, but if the screw up, s#!+ reeeeaaally hits the fan for the party. If the caster's like "I'll teleport us all to Elysium!" and gets a 1, then welcome to the friggin' 9th ring of hell!
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Not that you can't teleport away. But unless they're stupid - they'll be ready to ambush you when you -rather predictably- come back for the next 1-2 encounters.Why come back? Divination + transport = go straight to objective. Not necessarily scry-and-fry, either; some variant of find the path + wind walk can also be useful.
Scrying is absolutely useless for finding any thing and its a will save on everyone else. Scrying can only be directed against people now, not locations.
If the guy's sitting around like Orcus in his throne room, thats one thing, but since the Wizard in the party isn't getting scrying until say..7th level or so its a safe bet they're fighting competent baddies. This means either 1.) The main bad guy is someone they haven't seen (meaning the DC for his saving throw will be lower because of mods) or he works primarily through intermediaries. You can scry on them all day but that doesn't mean they'll even be in the same room as the big bad.
Find the Path requires the location to be prominent, so if you're dealing with a tiny secret bolthole, well.. And you probably didn't need it to get directions to the legendary Fortress of Fire Ants.
Teleport gets bolloxed up by powerful energy sources (volcanoes for example. Volcano lair! :D).
Discern Location is really handy but... Its 8th level and only tells you the name of the place. Also you need to have seen the baddie or hold something of his.
"Where is Mothgar the High Priest of the Demon Lord of Fire Ants?"
"27 Fireant Drive, on the Fiery Planes of Abomination, The Abyss, Post Office Box 19220."
Core divination spells are good, but not as exceptional as some would claim. Scrying I believe has been said somewhere to provide the worst of teleporting info. I lack a citation though.
You also need to figure out what your objective even is. Sometimes your objective is less punch out Mothgar and more 'the fire ants at this very moment march on the cities of the righteous people.'
And well, it presumably takes sword arms and spell lobbing to take out colossal demonic fire ants that are all over the place.
The appearance of caster supremacy comes from presuppositions about the campaigns and adventures they're in. One of those major presuppositions is the idea of four encounters a day or 'fair encounter' design.
The bad guy isn't limited in his employment options by the party composition.
Verisimilitude in campaign setting, as is evidenced by more complex encounters results in the end of the nova.
Most campaigns these days are story based. If we were still storming Undermountain or doing location based trials, it might be different, but even in those cases, exploration was a major goal.
Perhaps thejeff, but there's only so much damage a martial class can do on a critical fail, like stab themself or the guy next to them. But if a spellcaster screws up a spell, like a cleric gets a critical fail on a cure critical wounds, or a wizard critical fails a summon monster 5 spell then, well...you get the idea.
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Perhaps thejeff, but there's only so much damage a martial class can do on a critical fail, like stab themself or the guy next to them. But if a spellcaster screws up a spell, like a cleric gets a critical fail on a cure critical wounds, or a wizard critical fails a summon monster 5 spell then, well...you get the idea.
As he stated though, this is a house rule.
The fumble deck only applies to spells you roll to hit with, and I'd argue only the most pedantic of DMs would require you to make attack rolls regularly for healing out of combat. Healing in combat I still wouldn't make an issue of.
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Which means every BBEG is a full caster, not a martial. Which kind of underlines the point, n'est-ce pas?Or he has one on his payroll.
Edit: Ninja'd by 18 seconds.
The problem with that is that the counters are usually higher level than the spells themselves (teleport trap is 7, teleport 5, for example). Which means the BBEG's flunky is tougher than the party by themselves.
Because BBEGs can't contract their defenses to people more powerful than they are? I didn't mean that said wizard would be their flunky, just that they have the potential to hire them.
Frankly - in a high magic world such defenses would likely become standard for all major fortifications, or they wouldn't be worth building at all.
The majority of BBEGs being fought by a level 9+ party are threats on at least the national level.
BBEGs being able to find random wizards to contract defence work out to kind of undermines this. Why can't the PCs (or a king, for that matter) just go ask a level 13 wizard to bind a bunch of planetars that they can go save the world with. It's certainly more reasonable than expecting the BBEG to be able to ask a level 13 wizard to spend weeks fortifying their evil lair given that this wizard would be aware that they have knowledge of the security precautions the BBEG has and would also be aware that the BBEG would prefer for them to cease breathing ASAP because of said knowledge (not to mention the absurd resource expenditure necessary to protect a defensive position from magical assaults).
Perhaps thejeff, but there's only so much damage a martial class can do on a critical fail, like stab themself or the guy next to them. But if a spellcaster screws up a spell, like a cleric gets a critical fail on a cure critical wounds, or a wizard critical fails a summon monster 5 spell then, well...you get the idea.
What are you talking about. This literally does not happen according to the rules. We are talking about a game of pathfinder played according to or very close to the rules (RAI and/or RAW). What you are saying is irrelevant to this conversation because it doesn't apply outside of your table. Its about as silly as saying "Magic in pathfinder is fine because in second edition getting hit makes you autofail a spell".
Yes and no. House rules are going to get talked about in reference to people's games because people modify/fix/adjust them to their/their table's own flavor.
As far as I know there isn't any sort of mandate that the game can only exist in some sort of RAW state in these discussions; games are as varied as the people posting on the boards.
Yes and no. House rules are going to get talked about in reference to people's games because people modify/fix/adjust them to their/their table's own flavor.
As far as I know there isn't any sort of mandate that the game can only exist in some sort of RAW state in these discussions; games are as varied as the people posting on the boards.
The issue is less that he is discussing houserules and more that he is presenting houserules as part of the game in general.
We wouldn't be complaining if he said "My GM made X, Y and Z houserules and it seems to make casters more in line with martials". What he is actually saying is "X, Y and Z mean casters aren't that bad", when X, Y and Z don't exist outside the microcosm that is his gaming table or the extremely small amount of gaming tables that use those spell fumble rules.
Basically, we are getting annoyed that he seems to be acting as if his houserules apply to everyone.
Which means every BBEG is a full caster, not a martial. Which kind of underlines the point, n'est-ce pas?Or he has one on his payroll.
Edit: Ninja'd by 18 seconds.
The problem with that is that the counters are usually higher level than the spells themselves (teleport trap is 7, teleport 5, for example). Which means the BBEG's flunky is tougher than the party by themselves.
Well, you ARE trying to challenge your players, aren't you?
There's always scrolls if you're trying to keep the XP budget low, though.
I wouldn't go with contractors for the reasons Snowblind already mentioned. Odds are good that any casters the BBEG employs are genuine followers/believers/etc.
@ Kirth - nothing says the caster should be in charge (hell, the casters might be too busy making stuff to run the organization), but the opposing force absolutely SHOULD have casters.
A force that doesn't use casters SHOULD lose to a force that does, just an army that doesn't use artillery & mobile armor SHOULD lose to the army that does.
Special circumstances need to be in play for an under-armed force to hold up.
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As far as I know there isn't any sort of mandate that the game can only exist in some sort of RAW state in these discussions; games are as varied as the people posting on the boards.
Absolutely. However, there is a difference between saying "These optional rules fix the problems in core..." vs. "The core rules as written are perfect and should not be changed, because we use these optional rules to overrule them."
nothing says the caster should be in charge (hell, the casters might be too busy making stuff to run the organization), but the opposing force absolutely SHOULD have casters.
Let's look at it this way, then: can a party of all martials keep up? Or an all-martial bad-guy force? We've pretty well agreed the answer is "no." On the other hand, can an all-caster party keep up? In contrast, the answer there is "yes" -- especially when we consider that casters are straight-up given pet martials as class features (eidolon, druid's pet, planar binding/planar ally, create undead, simulacrum, etc., etc.).
We're playing a game in which some classes can do A + B + C, whereas others can do Only A or Only B. The disparity is built in from the ground up. Yeah, you can mitigate it in a variety of ways, and a longer adventuring day (preferably used sparingly to underline the point rather than beat people over the head with it) can help, but it doesn't fix the problem by a long shot.
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It does kinda bug me that after a while PF can get to the point where it seems like evil plots only happen because the local high-level non-evil magic users are
a.) Incompetent
b.) Locked out of taking an interest in the active threat to their home or leaving their towers by plot
c.) Secretly in on it
or
d.) Being prevented from solving it by the BBEG being a still-stronger magic user.
This is because of lack of verisimilitude based on how the devs wanted the game to come out.
Mr. Jacobs has said repeatedly that he feels that having other powerful good aligned NPCs around damages player agency, and so we end up in the Gygaxian pit trap where the hero's side tops out at level 4, but the drow cities are chock full of 14th level clerics for the heroes to fight.
The real solution is to make more big scale problems such that the higher level casters have other crap to handle, and this is the big stumbling block for the 'player agency' crowd.. not every problem can, or should be in the player character's wheelhouse.
That's a topic for a different thread though.
@ Kirth - Correct, the answer is no. That's how the game's always worked. Magic is powerful, and a party that doesn't have magic (or make damn good use of their magic items) is a party that's crippled themselves.
Simulacrum's a spell I'll cheerfully agree as being badly written and problematic.
(My tweaks to it would be (1) you need to very familiar with a creature to make a simulacrum of it and (2) simulacrums of mythic and/or unique creatures (demigods, spawn of Rovagug, etc.) are free willed (and loyal to the goals of its original). Leaving it open as a way for cults to make demigod avatars.)
The rest are much more situational, but my own experience is that they don't hold up to properly geared and optimized at level martials (other than the eidolon, anyways). They're certainly damn handy, though.
@ thejeff - wait, you're assuming that the BBEG is at the party's level, and that he recruited a higher level flunky? Uh, that's not what I was trying to convey at all. I was trying to convey that the BBEG AND his main sidekick would be higher level. I'd sure as hell write it up that way.
Of course, you could run a BBEG who's lacking the necessary defenses, because he/she/it just hit the big time and hasn't adjusted yet. (Hell, that could be perfect at 9th level, where parties are transitioning to the big time). Let the party have their cakewalk; makes running into the guy/lady/thing that did the homework all the more jarring.
@ Spook205 - yeah, Ed Greenwood populated the Realms with high level NPCs (usually a 9th level or so character in most communities, with major areas having more), and thus sparked endless complaints about how the PCs aren't special enough.
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The real solution is to make more big scale problems such that the higher level casters have other crap to handle, and this is the big stumbling block for the 'player agency' crowd.. not every problem can, or should be in the player character's wheelhouse.
That's a topic for a different thread though.
Ah, in other words more use of super-hero tropes instead of classic fantasy tropes. I like it.
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An elite squad of Fighters or Monks should be 100% every bit as dangerous as a squadron of the same number of Wizards or Druids the same level. Bar none.
I'm not sure that I'd go that far. But the game should be set up that an elite squad with a combination of fighter, monk, wizard, and druid should be considerably more lethal than an equal leveled & numbered squad of any of the four individually.
Though I will say - for NPC oppoenents - some of the problem is that there's no reason for them NOT to nova. It's not like they're planning to take on 3-4 other PC groups before resting. :P
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That's how the game's always worked.
Up until the train, automobile, and plane, it took days or weeks or months to get anywhere. That's how it had always worked. Up until the first written laws, whoever hit you over the head first could do whatever he/she wanted. That's how it had always worked. Hell, up until 3e, we had no standardized d20 system.
We don't need to be slavishly bound to prior models. There are usually better ways of doing things. Refusing to look for them, on the basis of precedent, is a Luddite's trap.
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Well, the overpricing of defenses against magic are part of the problem, too.
Seriously, you cast a spell, you bend the laws of physics to make something happen, like, oh, teleporting.
Shouldn't it be far easier to stop such a thing from happening, then it happening in the first place?
Extremely effective anti-teleport and anti-divination effects should be low level and cheap. Strengthening the dimensions so you can't run roughshod over them should be a very basic thing that any caster of low level can set up. Likewise, stopping scrying should be far easier then being able to scry in the first place...you already have a ton to overcome with divination, preventing it should be should be simple.
A simple way to do this is what I introduced in my campaign: Interdiction and Scryward.
Both are freely Heightenable spells, meaning you can memorize and cast them from any spell slot, and intrinsically can be made Permanent without requiring that spell for the cost.
They raise the spell slot required for dimensional/conjuration/summoning/teleport effects, and all divination effects, by 1 per Level of the effect.
Thus, even the simplest Interdiction stops spell-like teleporting, summoning monsters, and class abilities like blinking, because you can't Raise a spell like ability. An Interdiction at 4 means you'd have to blow a 6th level slot just to be able to Blink in the area of effect, and you'd need a 9th level slot to Teleport into it. Higher level spells are just impossible. Banishing/Dismissal and similar effects that work against those with planar links get +1 per Slot on the checks to send stuff away, because their ties to their home plane that give them strength are interdicted.
Likewise, Scryward raises the level of all divination effects by 1 per slot, which rapidly makes many Detect Spells or any form of scrying impossible within the area of effect. These are usually set up with carve-out exceptions, such as allowing Detect Invisibility or Darkvision or the like to still work.
You could easily set up the same for illusion/invisibility, and enchantment/charm spells.
Another effect is a variant on COntinual Faerie fire, call Limnation. Anything magical in the area of effect is Limned, glowing faintly in various hues and clearly visible. That includes spells and magic items. So attempting to infiltrate via magic is self-defeating.
Simply have these effects available in the Permanent Mode for easy purchase, and you have effective magical deterrents to magical tricks...exactly like would be developed in the real world.
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Without cheap, broadly useful defenses against spells...yeah, martials have very little way of defending themselves against stuff like this.
==Aelryinth
The rest are much more situational, but my own experience is that they don't hold up to properly geared and optimized at level martials (other than the eidolon, anyways). They're certainly damn handy, though.They don't need to. They're mostly there to do cleanup work after their Master has won the encounter, with a side gig of doing a bit of melee interference. Basically the same role the martial characters usually end up doing.
Heh, Paizo put out a book with a Summoner as the main bad guy. His Eidolon could take out a whole party of martials and just rip them up.
What was the first thing he did with his first attack on the party? Took out the two spellcasters. FOr half the book, because it always attacked with Improved Invisibility, they didn't even know what it looked like.
And nobody ever noticed him casting his SLA's and Summon, either.
==Aelryinth