| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pretty much. I choose to believe in a god. I don't believe there is any evidence of such a thing in our world, however. (Which is incidentally why I ignore organized religions and holy books.)
And I respect your right to believe as you do. Nor do I claim I can disprove the existence of an omnipotent god -- such a thing is manifestly impossible.
But unless/until I share whatever experience lead to this belief, I do not -- can not -- share it. Which is why I find attempts to proselytize (which, to be clear is NOT happening in this thread) to be so frustrating.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe a bit glib but I remember something a pastor told me once, "I don't worried about those that talk to God, that is fine and normal and good. It's the ones that claim he tells them what I/we should do that I get concerned about."
Of course one of his major points was you should always note what scriptures are being preached or talked about and study the and what is going on around them yourself instead of relying on what someone else tells you they mean.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And that remains your opinion, not an indisputable fact.
You're right...such evidence could exist. I'm not entirely sure why no one has shared it if it does, but if and when they do, I'm quite ready to change my position. After all, the prospect of a benevolent, omnipotent deity is really quite appealing.
But I'm curious...can we agree that the existence (or non-existence) of God is a matter of fact, not opinion? That is, God as you envision him either exists, or he doesn't...he can't be real for you, and at the same time not real for me?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I invite you to study Christianity, or to ask a few of us about the things you say. Your representation mischaracterizes a lot. If that's because you prefer a hostile, maybe even caustic position, then that's your choice of course. But if that's because you don't really understand Christianity and just see the worst possible presentation of the faith, let's have a beverage and talk about it.If we are going for not so fun facts:
I think several of us have done plenty of wide-ranging and well-documented research on our own along with serious extended comtemplation before coming to an atheist or areligious position. I think presupposing ignorance or hostility is a mischaracterization of athesist/areligious posters' own knowledge and intents.
As for that discussion+drink: Having read for years what you personally have openly posted under your own Facebook account and in comments on other's posts... Thanks, but definitely, absolutely, no thanks.
But unless/until I share whatever experience lead to this belief...Honestly, the extent of my experience was "Yeah, I'm going to believe this."
So really it's just a choice I made, no different than my choosing to buy a Pathfinder book.
Wow, I really can't wrap my head around that.
When evaluating a claim, I weigh the evidence. If insufficient evidence exists, I reject the claim (barring negation games). I don't see how I could choose to believe in God any more than I could not to believe in molecular theory.
Edit: Changed so as not to seem flippant.
...he can't be real for you, and at the same time not real for me?Ooo, quantum theology!
Sorry, my IQ falls well short of grasping quantum theory.
But... but... where's Scott Bakula!
Wow, I really can't wrap my head around that.I believe that. You couldn't wrap your head around that TPK either. ;P
Your tears are as the nectar of the Gods.
(see what I did there?)
... Richard Dawkins (oh this man is just so awesome) ...Interesting. I've always considered him a brilliant biologist, ham-handed philosopher and colossal jackass.
Though I haven't seen him be an ass yet, I'm always open to surprises. For years he's been something of a personal hero of mine and role model as to what a rational, well-reasoned individual is. I can find no fault in anything I've ever heard him say.
That said, it's not mandatory that anyone like him or his works, and I think that's a great thing. :)
@-Ashiel; While my mindset would lean more to guessing your experience has a more natural and less divine explanation, in truth it would be silly for me to guess what is happening given the little information I know about the situation.
If the angel and God has made your life better I'm glad.
It does make me curious how I would react if something similar happened to me. I'm an atheist because of a combo of no personal spiritual experience + lack of evidence (mostly that second one) but if new info was added I would definitely judge it on it's merits and be open to it as with every other kind of info.
A spiritual experience would be more interesting than just new info though, after checking to make sure I wasn't having a psychotic episode or that someone slipped LSD into my drink it would leave me in a very interesting position.
Regarding innate human morality I honestly don't know how legit that is, even from a very young age we pick up the fundamentals of morality from the people around us, not sure if we are mostly a blank slate when born or if there is something to that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
... Richard Dawkins (oh this man is just so awesome) ...Interesting. I've always considered him a brilliant biologist, ham-handed philosopher and colossal jackass.Though I haven't seen him be an ass yet, I'm always open to surprises. For years he's been something of a personal hero of mine and role model as to what a rational, well-reasoned individual is. I can find no fault in anything I've ever heard him say.
That said, it's not mandatory that anyone like him or his works, and I think that's a great thing. :)
I think he is kinda a wanker myself but that's a conversation I prefer not to delve into to deeply here.
@-Ashiel; While my mindset would lean more to guessing your experience has a more natural and less divine explanation, in truth it would be silly for me to guess what is happening given the little information I know about the situation.
Yeah, I've wondered about it before too. In fact, when I first started talking to God, I thought it must be schizophrenia setting in or something, so I asked God to humor me just once and answer a question that I myself couldn't answer without help, under the condition I wouldn't treat it like a magic 8-ball and keep asking for proofs.
I was never particularly great at math so I made up a random number off the top of my and was like "What's the square root of this number". I gave it a moment and then I got a new, much smaller number back. I immediately thought "I doubt that" and punched it into the calculator on my PC and hit the square-root button and...it actually kind of scared me a little bit because I couldn't have faked it if I was trying to win money. o_o
If the angel and God has made your life better I'm glad.
Thanks. :)
It does make me curious how I would react if something similar happened to me. I'm an atheist because of a combo of no personal spiritual experience + lack of evidence (mostly that second one) but if new info was added I would definitely judge it on it's merits and be open to it as with every other kind of info.
A spiritual experience would be more interesting than just new info though, after checking to make sure I wasn't having a psychotic episode or that someone slipped LSD into my drink it would leave me in a very interesting position.
Yeah, it's awkward in a way. My manager at a job I got was a very religious Christian man and we'd sometimes talk about stuff. He commented that his son was very Intelligent and needed reasons for things, and that while proud of him it made him a little worried about him for his apparent lack of faith. When he likened the two of us and remarked about my apparent faith, I had to correct him.
I explained that I couldn't take credit for being a particularly faithful believer in God. I told him about some of my my experiences with supernatural things, including the angel incident, which he received well, and explained that after experiencing enough of these things it becomes harder to not believe in it than it does to believe in it. After a point, it feels like you're trying to second-guess that water is wet. It's not really faith so much as it is experience. It also doesn't feel as "special" as one might think because it's not some great accomplishment. I've often noted that I really feel like people just need to ask and listen more.
Regarding innate human morality I honestly don't know how legit that is, even from a very young age we pick up the fundamentals of morality from the people around us, not sure if we are mostly a blank slate when born or if there is something to that.
It's probably worth studying. I just know that literally every child I've ever been able to sit down and hang out with (I'm a great babysitter :P) has shown me that if given some hypotheticals, they can quickly parse what is and isn't right.
Maybe I've just met really awesome kids. :P
Though, further, as a kid there must have been a reason that I (and some of my friends) innately knew some things were wrong. Why is it that when older adults said things like being gay was wrong, did it feel so bad? Why was it that if one of my family members said something racist that I was innately ashamed? It wasn't just me but a number of my peers as well.
I don't believe that being able to tell basic wrongs from rights makes one a special snowflake. I think it's pretty commonplace. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Why wouldn't we be able to agree on that? It's self-evident. The existence of God is not contingent on anyone's belief or disbelief.
1. I've had people argue this with me before; and
2. I've found it's safest not to assume anything when it comes to politics or religion. I simply often have to be reminded. :)
RPG Superstar 2013
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks, but definitely, absolutely, no thanks.
So....I was inviting OCW because I've known him on here for a while, and because his specific comments in this thread show some misconceptions about what Christianity teaches.
I didn't say atheists don't study or don't understand the beliefs they reject. I made my comment specifically because of OCW's post and addressed him specifically.
Please don't misconstrue my comments as anything other than a specific friendly invitation to a friendly guy.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@ Ashiel- The closest I ever came to a spiritual experience was when I was a kid I was playing Final Fantasy 7 for the playstation 1 and at one point when I was like halfway through the game when I started the system up the game would just refuse to load up.
After messing with it for over two hours I finally gave up, threw my hands up in the air and said something along the lines of "If there was a God he would let me play this game!"
At that exacted moment my TV screen flashed and the game started up for no reason I could perceive. I played through the game three or four times through the years on that system and never had a problem with that game again, though I did with other games, Lol.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@ Ashiel- The closest I ever came to a spiritual experience was when I was a kid I was playing Final Fantasy 7 for the playstation 1 and at one point when I was like halfway through the game when I started the system up the game would just refuse to load up.
After messing with it for over two hours I finally gave up, threw my hands up in the air and said something along the lines of "If there was a God he would let me play this game!"
At that exacted moment my TV screen flashed and the game started up for no reason I could perceive. I played through the game three or four times through the years on that system and never had a problem with that game again, though I did with other games, Lol.
Well it was Final Fantasy VII. It doesn't get much more divine than that! :P
(Fanboy alert!)
Just like in any activity, as long as you can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, you'll be alright here.
