Thornkeep Dungeon Questions

[Nohwear]

I am thinking of requesting to run one or more of these, and I have some questions. First off, are they closer in length to standard scenarios or out right modules?

[Kristen Gipson]

The run closer to scenarios

[Nohwear]

Thank you.

[Muser]

IIRC, the first part took us 3 hours, the 3rd 2,5 hours(it was awesome) and the penultimate 5.

[nosig]

Duration is dependant on the player/PC mix and how well the group play together.

for example, most any group with me in it will run longer....

;)

[Silbeg]

@Nohwear -- a lot also depends on how much time the characters spend in the town of Thornkeep (before the dungeons).

I would plan on 6-8 hours for Accursed Halls, as they spend a lot of time talking to all of the folks in town, following rumors, etc. That is how I start the run -- in fact, I typically start the characters in Daggermark, instead of Thornkeep, and give them a PFS-like mission from the local Venture-Captain.

From there, each probably will take about 6 hours, or so (plan on at least that), until Sanctum of a Lost Age. That could take 8 hours, or so, if not more.

I would, for sure, give them more time than the typical 4-5 hour Game Day.

[countchocula]

It really depends on the and how good their chars are I have seen part one ran in 3 1/2 hrs ( as opposed to the ~ 6hrs it took me when I played it ) also having the map pre drawn or map pack makes the mod go by considerably faster.

[Muser]

I heard it's also dependant on how much your gm uses the settlement to set the scene. You could canvas for information and get to know the locals a lot before setting your course for the certain de...uh sweet loot lurking below. When I played part 1, we had only a handful of hours, so had to run it as a pure dungeon crawl.

[wellsmv]

It really depends on how much role-playing you do...

If you skip the city interactions they can def be ran like a scenario in 4 -5 hours.

If you are running them as a home game. I would say def work into your game the city politics and such ( lots of fun role-playing involved)

specifically the friendly goblins in town...

[Rycaut]

I've never run a level of Thornkeep faster than 8 hours and in many cases I've had levels that stretched to three game sessions (3-4 hours each) or over 12 hours at a con in a few cases. It really depends on your groups, your play style and how you run the NPC's and tactics. Some levels may complete faster - but I think part of the fun of running a module over a scenario is NOT being rushed to complete it. Letting the players have longer combats, more time for roleplaying etc. (and I'll note, I generally DO NOT do much in the town ahead of the 1st level as I find the dungeon elements alone can take a long time with most groups I've run through it - I've run that level multiple times and I've run the final level multiple times (the final level is possibly my favorite Pathfinder module - really really enjoy running it but haven't ever finished it in shorter than 12 hours.

When I hear of people completing the levels in 3 hours or that range I don't get how - I suspect they may have run many things very quickly (clearly) and may have missed that the 1st module has a very large map scale (10' squares - it is a really really big dungeon). I love that level but I certainly can't imagine running it to completion in 3 hours even with the most experienced of groups.

(I also don't pull any punches and quite often see players triggering multiple encounters at the same time in Thornkeep - and in the case of the final levels traversing the map multiple times in almost every case.)

I do hear of a lot of people running the far far faster than I would ever run them - so clearly people play a very different game than I do (I suspect a lot comes down to tactics that the GM's use and where you position monsters, which abilities you use and the size of your group. I've often had large groups when running Thornkeep so that can slow down play - a group of 4 players would run much faster than the 6-7 player groups I've often run at conventions.

[kinevon]

@Rycaut: Ever had a group with a good door opener? If they can make the DC 20 for those doors on the balcony, a lot of the combats run a lot quicker, since some of the elements just get shut down.

It also depends on the party. A couple of heavy hitters can shorten several of the combats remarkably.

Or bad luck against a couple of the combats can end the whole thing early and badly.

[Rycaut]

no neither party I have run was able to open the doors (though I thought the DC was higher - have to check my book) and while they were all good players they were all fairly new in both cases - no one with really broken builds (and mostly Level 1s with only a few Level 2s)

[kinevon]

Doesn't take much for a Rogue build to get to a +10 for Disable Device.

+4 Dex mod
+1 rank
+3 Class skill
+2 masterwork thieve's tools (easily affordable if not the first session for the PC)

As for the DC for the doors:

From the room information:
The sealed stone doors are protected by arcane locks from this side
.From the Dungeon Features section:
Doors:
Stone. Doors either open easily to a light push, or are sealed by arcane lock effects (hardness 8, 30 hp, Disable Device DC 20, break DC 38).

Took me a few double-checks to realize it was that low. Of course, the goblins aren't trained, and the other stats are not bad, which is why they weren't able to get through either of those doors.

And, as long as the DD trained PC has a non-negative modifier, they can get it on a Take 20....

Spoiler:

Of course, from that side, the crickets can get their acrobatic charge, but they don't get to block a choke point.

And other encounters work a bit strange at times, too, since the PCs are coming in from the opposite side.