Gestalt Question (Not a Build)

[Aincrad Survivor]

Now I hear that Monk//Druid is a very popular gestalt option. While I see the synergy in Wis focus one must be neutral the other Lawful, though I suppose a Lawful Neutral would qualify.

Now the real question is, what makes this benefit?
Because I keep seeing the joke comment of the circle kicking bear. So is it wildshape that makes this the most optimal?
If a Druid archetype traded off Wildshape but kept its other features mostly intact would it still be a good pair with Monk?

I personally was thinking of a Reincarnated Druid build for my next character, but if I used Green Faith Acolyte and then into Living Monolith (seems to be the most popular build for this) I would lose my Wildshape ability but keep most of my spell casting -1 level. Would this be even worth the effort to put with Monk?

I am aware of the Warpriest's Sacred Fist and due to its spells being better then the Monk, but I would like to keep this focused on the monk for now ty.

[GM Arkwright]

Basically- wildshape. It offers
-Mobility
-Attack and damage bonuses
-An AC restriction (no armor!) that stacks perfectly with the monk's no-armor AC bonuses.
-Varied natural attacks; many monk things love natural attacks.

If you traded off Wildshape, it'd probably not be a great pair. Spellcasting is nice, but when you're in the realm of possibility gestalt offers, it's not enough.

[Aincrad Survivor]

You can't flurry with Natural Attacks, Druids with Wis to AC is good no doubt, but I assumed Wildshape was wanted for Natural Armor bonuses to stack with that.

Mobility, you mean travel forms as well as using those forms during combat, a bird for for flight and overhead attacks right?

I assume if I was too take the Druid Monk and take Reincarnated Druid I would need to take Druid 20//Monk X/Green Faith Acolyte 3/Living Monolith 10/X?

[GM Arkwright]

Look up the Feral Combat Training feat.

And by Mobility I mean Pounce and fly speeds for cobmat.

[Aincrad Survivor]

Oh I see, I heard the new Monk will have a method to move distances to full attack so they will have a pounce here soon.

I will be honest I dont know what forms to choose for a character like this, when their base form should be pretty solid most of the time.

[GM Arkwright]

Your base form will lack pounce and sweet beast shape bonuses, so...

The 'new' Monk is a variant rule so if you haven't already run it by your GM don't depend on getting it.

As for class structure- I don't know much about the druid/monk gestalt; but can you tell me what exactly you are getting out of Green Faith and Monolith? I'm not seeing much worth, personally, though I do prefer straight-classing.

[Aincrad Survivor]

That's strictly for Reincarnated Druid, it allows the druid to lose their permanent negative 2 levels with 2 weeks of sleeping. Monolith grants immunity to death effects.

Feral Combat Training says you pick one natural attack, so if you shifted to a form with Wings and not claws, you cannot use those wings in your attack unless you also have Feral Combat Training for that too.

[Atarlost]

I don't think it really works out like that.

A casting druid benefits a lot from monk. Monk gives the best defensive improvement, but does little for offense. A casting druid doesn't really care about wildshape except as another way to boost AC and mobility. A caster druid benefits from monk in pretty much the same way as that one wisdom casting variant sorcerer bloodline: passively.

A shaping focused druid doesn't get much from monk. Tetori has its good points, but what a combat shaper really wants is full BAB and bonus feats. Fighter is probably your best bet, though for pounce/rake focused builds cavalier also has value.

Monk does well from druid, but it's thematically quite dubious. Monk meshes better with cleric or warpriest or inquisitor or that one variant sorcerer bloodline and great as wildshape is it's not that much better to have wildshape and a poorly fitting spell list than to have a well fitting spell list but no wild shape. Druid just doesn't have the same quality of buffing. Barkskin and greater magic weapon are nice, but barkskin is available anyways as a quiggong power so you're left comparing GMF and wildshape against more versatile and thematically suitable spell lists.

[kestral287]

Atarlost: Empyreal bloodlines man. Empyreal.

There are a couple things you tend to look for in gestalts to make them really effective. Stat synergies tend to be the obvious.

But one of the biggest things to look for is that you want to make sure you can combine active and passive abilities. If you were to combine, say, the Sorcerer and Slayer, and run the Sorcerer as a Blaster, you have two sets of active abilities-- you can't really blast and melee in the same round, and neither has great passive abilities. Every time you do anything, somebody's abilities are wasted.

Monk//Druid doesn't have that problem, because the two classes pretty effectively cover each other. The only things that get 'wasted' are what gets wasted for a normal Druid-- you're either meleeing or casting.

If you're meleeing, you need two feats to unify the two's offenses-- once you get Feral Combat Training you're set. Just figure out early one what forms you're most likely to want to melee in-- while it's true that if you take FCT (Bite) you're much less useful if you take a form without a Bite, you're unlikely to want to take that form anyway.

Bite or Slam are probably the best options for FCT, incidentally.

If you're casting, it's even easier. The Monk is there to provide defenses. Good saves + Wis to AC make survival much easier. It also provides some martial prowess when the situation demands it, and via Qingong can give some more pseudo-spells.

It's not the strongest gestalt on the planet by any means, but it is a very simple and effective combination.