What is the action to increase your land speed with the ability though? Also, with one round, once per minute, that means that every minute, for one round, you can surge in speed right?
Yes, and it requires no action to use. I'm going to try to to find the space to include that in the ability's description. (Doubtful, but I'll try.)
I felt that Kaylos could use a buff (he had two weak minor granted abilities), so I'm trying out these revisions to Div's charms and Genie Lore, respectively. Let me know your reactions to this:
"Genie Lore: While you are bound to Kaylos, you gain an insight bonus on Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellcraft checks equal to half your binder level.
Usher Oblivion: While you are bound to Kaylos, you can cast any spell on the Destruction domain’s list of domain spells whose spell level is equal to or less than your maximum spirit level as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Destruction domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."
Bat Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain an insight bonus on Fly, Perception, and Stealth checks equal to half your binder level.
I like these skill bonuses
Crocodile Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the hold breath universal monster ability and a +1 natural armor bonus to your AC. This natural armor bonus increases by +1 at 10th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5. In addition, you can increase your land speed by 30 feet for one round once per minute.
The natural armor bonus is nice, hold breath is situational, and the increase to land speed is nice.
Spider Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you can cast the following spells as spell-like abilities: spider climb, web, and whip of spidersACG. At 10th level, you can also cast phantasmal webapg as a spell-like ability. You can cast each of these spell-like abilities a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
These are some nice spells, but it is somewhat sad losing constant spider climb[i] and at-will [i]web.
Wolf Heritage: While you are bound to Night Fang, you gain the scent special ability as well as the benefits of Improved Trip and Greater Trip."
Greater Trip is nice and making this better than it was.
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I do feel that Night Fang should grant some natural attacks, what with being a mish-mash of several creatures. Different movement modes would be nice as well, abilities that start out poor and eventually get better.
Bat: No natural attacks, fly 15 ft. (poor), fly speed upgrades.
Crocodile: Tail slap, swim 15 ft., swim speed upgrades.
Spider: No natural attacks, climb 15 ft., climb speed upgrades, eventually gains claws.
Wolf: Bite, land speed increase of 5 ft., land speed increases.
To balance it you can have his sign act as a polymorph effect which will prevent other similar abilities.
The imagery of a big gestalt of creatures having the abilities of its component parts, getting stronger as the binder's power increases, is compelling to me, and it would also ensure that Night Fang would be a good melee/versatile abilities spirit starts weak and ends strong.
"Genie Lore: While you are bound to Kaylos, you gain an insight bonus on Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellcraft checks equal to half your binder level.
I like the new skill bonuses much better.
Usher Oblivion: While you are bound to Kaylos, you can cast any spell on the Destruction domain’s list of domain spells whose spell level is equal to or less than your maximum spirit level as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Destruction domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."
I take it this replaces div's charm? If so, then this is a great revision--honestly, I like the idea of versatile domain casting and think other spirits could benefit from it as well.
I ended up having a friend over last night and we made a few characters. Unfortunately, we ran out of time for actually using them in game, but we did come up with some comments.
The first character was a level 5 Fighter Warbinder. I think this archetype works really well. The only issue we saw was that binding a spirit to a weapon seems to cost too much for what it gives (via the Occult Weapon binder secret). Currently, when you bind a spirit to a weapon, you get the spirit's major granted ability usable through the weapon and you get an enhancement bonus to the weapon (which stacks with normal weapon enhancement bonuses). The enhancement has to be picked when you bind the spirit. You lose all minor granted abilities.
I feel that one of the following should be true about this ability:
1) be able to change the enhancement as a swift or move action throughout the day
2) Retain at least some of the minor granted abilites; perhaps you can pick one except the one given up by the vestigial bond/boon.
We also toyed with an occultist using the archetype Occult Scholar. I feel that the later abilities granted by this archetype come too-little-too-late. Monstrous insight gives a +2 knowledge bonus and a +2 AC and attack bonus to creatures identified (takes a standard action). By level 6, this bonus is very small. I feel that this bonus would be much more worthwhile at level 4. Automatic Writing seems ok for the level. Perfect knowledge seems to come way too late. Most characters will never get to level 18, and by that time a measly +10 bonus is nothing (even if it is to a lot of skills). I almost feel as if Perfect Knowledge and Automatic Writing should be switched.
I'm out of time for now, but I'll be back later for more commentary.
"Genie Lore: While you are bound to Kaylos, you gain an insight bonus on Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellcraft checks equal to half your binder level.I like the new skill bonuses much better.
Its basically the old Div's charms merged with Genie Lore. Div's Charms had really weak bonuses.
Usher Oblivion: While you are bound to Kaylos, you can cast any spell on the Destruction domain’s list of domain spells whose spell level is equal to or less than your maximum spirit level as a spell-like ability. You can cast a total number of Destruction domain spell-like abilities each day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."I take it this replaces div's charm? If so, then this is a great revision--honestly, I like the idea of versatile domain casting and think other spirits could benefit from it as well.
I don't know HOW frequently I'm going to give out the domain casting ability (I'd like to keep it somewhat rare and not have people saying, "Oh, why doesn't X domain have a spirit that grants it?!" But where it makes sense, I'll certainly use it. Kaylos is one of the oldest divs, likely one created by Ahriman's first coming, and as such it makes sense that he'd have the Destruction domain.
We also played wth the occultist archetype Mad Occultist. I really like this archetype and feel it is very well written. You get a standard rage as a barbarian (which is stackable with other rage classes). You get some restrictions based off the spirit: cannot attack favored allows and must attack favored enemies (pending a will save) while raging. This is worse than the barbarian archetype, which suffers no restrictions while raging, but better than the bloodrager, which always suffers the personality influence while raging. Very solid archetype. The only thing I'd think about changing is lowering the 20th level ability down to 15th - and I'm not even certain about whether it should be changed at all. I'd be very curious how the spirits would battle it out when the mad occultist binds two spirits with opposing favored allies/enemies.
More to come later.
Here is a question for the folks at home: I've heard it said by many players that they don't like the feel of the archetypes that give up spellcasting for spirit binding. The question that no one has answered so far is, "Why?" This goes doubly so for the 6-level spellcasting classes.
What do you think?
Actually, for my home games, I intend to replace divine spellcasting with pact magic. I am also replacing arcane magic with Spheres of Power, which I find to be on a similar power level (flexible, but less so than standard, and with more continued staying power.
That being said, any archetypes that do replace spellcasting with pact magic would simply be making that change much easier on me. But, as my situation is not that of most people's, I can't really comment on why others may have a different preference.
Here is a question for the folks at home: I've heard it said by many players that they don't like the feel of the archetypes that give up spellcasting for spirit binding. The question that no one has answered so far is, "Why?" This goes doubly so for the 6-level spellcasting classes.
What do you think?
I think that the archetypes that give up spellcasting may not be getting an equivalent exchange of power.
For example, the Occult Investigator (Non-Cha Class):
This Investigator archetype gives up alchemy and swift alchemy.
Level 1, Investigator: 1+ Level 1 spells, chosen at the beginning of the day.
Level 1, Occult Investigator: 1 spirit, 1 Major on 5-round recharge, 4 Minors which can duplicate spells, chosen at the beginning of the day.Level 10, Investigator: 5+/4+/3+/1+ Level 1-4 spells, chosen at the beginning of the day.
Level 10, Occult Investigator: 1 Level 1-4 spirit, 1 Major on 5-round recharge, 4 Minors which can duplicate spells, chosen at the beginning of the day. Can add inspiration die on binding checks.Level 20, Investigator: 5+/5+/5+/5+/5+/5+ Level 1-6 spells, chosen at the beginning of the day.
Level 20, Occult Investigator: 1 Level 1-6 spirit, 1 Major on 5-round recharge, 4 Minors which can duplicate spells, chosen at the beginning of the day. Can add inspiration die on binding checks.
Another example is the Magus vs. Sibyl, where all spellcasting (and anything spellcasting related) is given for supernatural-based abilities. While still a good archetype, at mid tier it begins to fall back in terms of staying power. It can gain some nice utility that a Magus normally cannot get, but its ability to be a "Magus" is reduced greatly.
I think if the Occult Investigator/Sibyl gained the ability to bind an additional spirit it would make up for the lack of spells greatly. I see an exchange similar to the following:
Minor Binding Class Feature
Diminished Spellcasting (One Less Spell/Level) + Tunneled Lore (Single Constellation)
or
Lose Companion feature but gain Tunneled Lore (Vestigial Companion)
= Spirit binding.Major Binding Class Feature
Lose spellcasting ability.
= Spirit binding, additional spirit bound at 6th level.
This is in addition to the other features exchanged in the archetypes, of course and is just an idea--it's not fully fleshed out but I think it addresses the problem that some people are seeing.
Played around with the Eldritch Jailer archetype for the Occultist. There are some issues with it, all surrounding the Eidolon. It feels as if this ability was different in an older edition but the text wasn't properly changed around.
First off, getting an eidolon in exchange for flexibility in spirit choices is really cool. Being an archetype, however, there are restrictions:
Unlike a summoner’s eidolon, an eldritch jailer’s eidolon actively struggles against her command and as a result, it must be handled using Handle Animal skill checks as though it were a trained animal.
So far, so good. In order to get your eidolon to do things, you have to make a handle animal check. That's fine; it's just like having an animal companion or any other animal. Make a check and it'll obey your orders. Fail a check and it'll do something else.
In order to command her eidolon, an eldritch jailer inscribes runes onto her occult effigy that represent an animal trick.
This does not make sense. I know what an effigy is: it's any fetish or model that represents another being. So how can an effigy represent an animal trick? A trick isn't a being, it's a type of action. Basic word definitions do not mesh well here, and this is where the ability begins to feel as if it was accidentally mixed with a previous edition.
Doing so requires 1 week of work and at the end of the week the eldritch jailer must succeed on a Spellcraft skill check to complete the rune.
Ignoring the "animal trick" part and moving one. This makes sense. Making the effigy requires one week of work in order to control your eidolon. Without this, you can't summon your eidolon.
The DC for this check is equal to the Handle Animal DC to teach the trick to an animal.
Huh? This part of the ability says that to make your effigy, you have to make a roll with a DC of the trick. Which trick? Which DC? Trick DCs are variable, so even if "the" was changed to "a" it still wouldn't make sense. Again, it feels like different versions of this ability were meshed.
An eldritch jailer begins play with her eldritch totem inscribed with all of the tricks associated with one general purpose of the eldritch jailer’s choice, such as fighting or riding. In addition to these free tricks, an occult effigy can be scribed with three tricks plus one additional trick per three levels the eldritch jailer possesses.
Why would I care about this? Eidolons don't use tricks. Even if we're pretending that this eidolon is treated as an animal, it still wouldn't use tricks. It uses evolutions. Also, nowhere in this archetype are evolutions mentioned, but since the occultist is considered equal level as a summoner, I assume that it's standard eidolon abilities with standard eidolon evolutions. Which brings us back to why we're even mentioning tricks at all.
While I love the idea of an Occultist getting an Eidolon, this ability feels as if it used to grant an animal companion instead, but was updated to an Eidolon and the text was mish-mashed. Like creintelligent designism.
My recommendations for fixing this:
Drop all mentions of tricks. If we want the Eidolon to be a bit uncontrollable, then the handle animal skill is fine, but set the DC to either 15 or 20 and then set rules for what happens on a failure: Eidolon acts as if confused(worst option) or GM decides or eidolon does nothing in defiance or eidolon does what it thinks most helps the occultist rather than what the occultist wants it to do (best option*), etc...
Optionally, since the eidolon removes all vestigial companions and removes all spirits that grant boons instead of bonds and removes all minor abilities replaced by vestigial companions (and has tunneled lore!), perhaps we should just remove the defiance in the eidolon altogether.
Note that the first paragraph and the last paragraph of this ability do not need to be changed at all. And I particularly love the idea that the eidolon lives in an extra-dimensional space in the effigy which it jumps out of when you summon it.
*I say that this is the best option because eidolons aren't supposed to be working against their summoners, as their souls are bound together as if they were one being. However, an eidolon can have it's own opinions and act in defiance of it's summoner's commands without acting against the summoner herself. Plus, this is way more flavorful. :)
Inquisitor archetype issue:
Both the Occult Sadist and the Pact Protector Inquisitor archetypes get the same exact ability for binding spirits. Yet the Occult Sadist gets diminished spellcasting while the Pact Protector loses spellcasting altogether. There's nothing that the Pact Protector gets that makes the loss of spell casting worth it when the other Inquisitor archetype gets the identical ability without losing spell casting.
And why would a Pact Protector want the ability to perform an Exorcism (from the occult domain)? The single subdomain that can replace it doesn't seem to fit within the archetype's flavor either. I feel like there should be one more subdomain which replaces the 8th level domain power. Maybe granting the binding secret Empower Major Ability or Bouncing Major Ability so they can better defend the Pact.
So. This question is more random than anything, but, which spirit would you say encompasses being an elemental? Like. Has abilities and such that would allow you to emulate specific elementals. Is there one? I did a search and didn't find anything that allowed elemental body (which is fine) and if there isn't one, I guess that's ok too. Just curious as I've always enjoyed the elemental power flavor in pathfinder.
Also, what are ravager spirits and what are they capable of, if I may ask?
So. This question is more random than anything, but, which spirit would you say encompasses being an elemental? Like. Has abilities and such that would allow you to emulate specific elementals. Is there one? I did a search and didn't find anything that allowed elemental body (which is fine) and if there isn't one, I guess that's ok too. Just curious as I've always enjoyed the elemental power flavor in pathfinder.
Humble Ohbai, Pavatu, Jayne Warlock, or Ryoku Ria. These all allow you to assume the form of an elemental in some aspect. Plus there are multiple others that allow you to gain an elemental as a companion.
Greensprout Rapscallion requires these three feats to qualify for the prestige class:
Flexible Pactmaking, Permanent Pact (Tommy Greensprout), Spirit Focus (Tommy Greensprout).
However, if you have permanent pact, you cannot use flexible pactmaking. I think this is an error, written here:
Permanent pacts cannot be modified or altered by feats (other than Spirit Focus) or class features unless specifically stated otherwise; for example, you cannot use Flexible Pactmaking feat with a permanent spirit.
EDIT: I just noticed that flexible pact is a prerequisite for permanent pact. While I get it (flexible pact allows you to extend your pact for longer and then permanent pact makes it permanent), it seems really odd that a feat becomes unusable once you get a later feat in the chain.
Edit 2: Last line of Permanent Pact reads, "Not even death (and subsequent resurrection) cannot free one’s soul from a permanent pact." Cannot needs to be changed to can.
The way I parse it, the effigy doesn't represent the animal trick...the runes represent the animal trick. I believe the intent is that you can't force the eidolon to do anything that you couldn't make an animal do with Handle Animal. Instead of an animal trick, they're an inscribed command. 'Attack', 'Come', 'Defend', 'Guard', etc. Unlike with animals, it's not because it's of animal-level intelligence, it's because it doesn't want to and you're forcing it to obey a specific command, rather than just telling it what to do and it doing it.
Wow. Ok, it totally makes sense now. How did I not see it before?
Well, don't I feel sheepish.
Humble Ohbai, Pavatu, Jayne Warlock, or Ryoku Ria.
Well heck. My search function must be messed up haha. Pavatu does give Elemental Body and encompasses air pretty solidly. I also missed that Ryoku Ria can do it, but I won't blame the search function that time since it didn't actually straight up list Elemental Body. I guess Jayna kind of does have an elemental thing going as does Ohbai, but I think Ryoku and Pavatu are at least close to what I was looking for. Ryoku especially since it could be any elemental. Thanks Bookrat.
Speaking of Humble Ohbai...
While transformed, you do not need to breathe and all falling damage that you are immune to falling damage.
I think this sentence could use a rewrite. Page 118.
Question. With Reserve Spirit, does one get a constellation aspect because of it since it says that you're binding an additional spirit? If so, since it's suppressed, would that mean the constellation aspect is suppressed with it until un-suppressed?
Also, I realize the chances of it happening are low, but I think it would be great if Pact Effigy were made available to 3rd level Occultists. It'd make it so that Occultists could use the feat craft wondrous items a bit quicker, but I feel that's balanced by having to spend a secret to be able to get it, and by DMs who overlook the use of the feat anyways by saying yes or no to items and handling the amount of gold the players get.
Question. With Reserve Spirit, does one get a constellation aspect because of it since it says that you're binding an additional spirit? If so, since it's suppressed, would that mean the constellation aspect is suppressed with it until un-suppressed?
I would say yes, if the character who got the feat had the Constellation class ability. And then again, I would say yes, it is suppressed while the spirit is suppressed. Once you switch out spirits, the other constellation minor ability associated with that spirit become suppressed as well.
I think it would be great if Pact Effigy were made available to 3rd level Occultists.
Concur.
I don't have my PDF on my phone, but doesn't Reserve Spirit say that it can't be modified by feats or class abilities? I might be mistaken without being able to check.
Dexion is right. Reserve Spirit doesn't work in conjunction with any feat or class feature.
EDIT: I just noticed that flexible pact is a prerequisite for permanent pact. While I get it (flexible pact allows you to extend your pact for longer and then permanent pact makes it permanent), it seems really odd that a feat becomes unusable once you get a later feat in the chain.
Edit 2: Last line of Permanent Pact reads, "Not even death (and subsequent resurrection) cannot free one’s soul from a permanent pact." Cannot needs to be changed to can.
Permanent Pact is designed to be a poor choice for characters who can only bind to a single spirit. There are exceptions; for instance, the Ravage Binder archetype gives you Permanent Pact for free.
Fixed.
Dexion is right. Reserve Spirit doesn't work in conjunction with any feat or class feature.
Lets say we have three spirits with the third in reserve. One from Hero, one from Tree, and one from Angel. We're currently bound to a Hero and a Tree spirit, getting a constellation aspect from each.
When we switch out the Hero spirit for the Angel spirit, do we still keep the Hero constellation aspect even though that Hero spirit is suppressed? Or do we switch out a Hero constellation aspect for an Angel constellation aspect? Or do we lose the constellation aspect when we switch? Or do we lose it altogether and never have it to begin with since we're using Reserve Spirit?
When we switch out the Hero spirit for the Angel spirit, do we still keep the Hero constellation aspect even though that Hero spirit is suppressed? Or do we switch out a Hero constellation aspect for an Angel constellation aspect? Or do we lose the constellation aspect when we switch? Or do we lose it altogether and never have it to begin with since we're using Reserve Spirit?
I get the impression that we would simply lose the Hero Constellation aspect in your scenario, but I'd like to know if the constellation sticks around or not when using a reserve spirit myself.
Too late to edit as I just noticed it. I meant to Quote Bookrat not Alexander... oops.
The first character was a level 5 Fighter Warbinder.
I think you touched on something here in your analysis--should Occult Weapon, instead of its normal form, act as a Vestigial Bond? The binder secret could give access to enhancing your weapon at the cost of the minor ability switched out as normal with the Vestigial Bond. You could also have the binder lose access to her spirit's abilities while not in contact with the Occult Weapon (making disarm stronger than before). She would suffer the Personality Influence / Physical Sign while in contact with the weapon as well.
This would better balance out Occult Weapon for those binders with only one spirit and even give a normal Occultist pause about picking up the binder secret.
We also played wth the occultist archetype Mad Occultist.
In addition to bookrat's analysis, I'm not sure if Tunneled Lore is needed for the Mad Cultist. You lose access to all constellation aspects as well as pact augmentations in order to gain the rage ability. If the rage were a normal barbarian rage I may agree more with this, but the Mad Cultist's rage is very dependent upon the spirits she is bound to, unable to attack favored allies and forced to make a Will save or attack a Favored Enemy for 1 round. I think being limited to one constellation (two if you count Starless) may be a bit much and requires the Mad Cultist to plan out the character from 1-20 in order to find the most effective constellation to take; the rage's limitation already enforces intelligent choice when binding and would be difficult even with all constellations:
(Note that "forced to attack" means "Will save or forced to attack for 1 round while raging")
Achaelous:
Allies: Animal (aurochs and bulls), Fey (dryads), Humanoid (maidens), Magical Beast (gorgons)
Enemies: Humanoid (adventurers and bachelors)Achaelous would force you to attack your allies unless you were in a full female party.
Aza'azti
Allies: Dragon (any)
Enemies: Humanoid (arcane spellcasters)You can't attack any dragons and you could attack your own arcane spellcasters in the group.
Cave Mother
Allies: Any (living arcane spellcasters)
Enemies: Undead (any)While Enemies doesn't hurt you as much here, you would not be able to attack any enemy arcane spellcasters.
Coralene
Allies: Humanoid (any nobility)
Enemies: Any (dogs and canine-like creatures)Don't be in town and rage, otherwise you'll kill people's pets. You also can't attack humanoid nobility, which could also include orc chieftains, slimy human nobles that backstab you, those of elven royal lineages, etc.
Dantalios
Allies: Aberration (any)
Enemies: Aberration (any)Dantalios causes you to be unable to attack aberrations, but you're forced to attack them as well--which takes precedence?
Eos Dei
Allies: Outsider (archons)
Enemies: Outsider (any evil)The first spirit whose allies and enemies don't affect you too much--avoid raging and you won't randomly attack evil outsiders.
Forash
Allies: Humanoid (goblinoids), Outsider (any evil)
Enemies: Humanoid (dwarves and elves)Don't bind Forash--goblinoids and evil outsiders are common enough that this would prevent you from being able to use rage.
General Hessant
Allies: Any (creatures who serve in a military)
Enemies: Any (creatures that can cast spells)If you have any spellcasters in your party, don't bind General Hessant unless you don't want to rage. Keep in mind there are a lot of goblinoids whose tribes count as militaries.
Gwenolyn's Ghost
Allies: Undead (incorporeal)
Enemies: Humanoid (divine spellcasters)Also not a good spirit to bind unless you have no divine spellcasters in the party. While you don't always run against incorporeal undead, this will cause you to watch wraiths devastate your party.
Marat
Allies: Construct (any)
Enemies: Humanoid (gnomes)Constructs are pretty common to fight, and gnomes are one of the core races, so this can also stop you from raging.
Milo of Cylde
Allies: Any (any creature that has been the victim of a crime within 72 hours of your pact)
Enemies: Any (any creature that has committed a serious crime within 72 hours of your pact)Again, I'm not sure which takes precedence if the creature both was the victim of a crime and committed a serious crime. Since "victim of a crime" can cover a wide variety of crimes and thievery is quite common, all your enemy has to do is tell you someone stole his favorite book and you can no longer attack him.
Sevnoir
Allies: Humanoid (elves), Magical Beast (shadow mastiffs)
Enemies: Humanoid (halflings and humans)Ouch. Humans are one of the most popular races, as are elves. You can't attack elves during your rage and you have to attack ally halflings and humans.
Verbose
Allies: Humanoid (gnomes)
Enemies: Humanoid (giants, goblins, kobolds)Verbose won't hurt as much unless you're fighting an enemy gnome or have goblins/kobolds in the party. Most adventurers attack Verbose's enemies on sight anyway.
Vishgurv
Allies: Humanoid (any aquatic)
Enemies: Humanoid (any non-aquatic)You can't really use Vishgurv in the water unless you don't want to rage, negating one of his minors and vestigial bond. Have all humanoids that aren't aquatic will also cause you to be aggressive to your party.
I like the imagery/flavor of the Mad Cultist's rage and would be fine with its current incarnation if she had access to all constellations.
We also toyed with an occultist using the archetype Occult Scholar. I feel that the later abilities granted by this archetype come too-little-too-late. Monstrous insight gives a +2 knowledge bonus and a +2 AC and attack bonus to creatures identified (takes a standard action). By level 6, this bonus is very small. I feel that this bonus would be much more worthwhile at level 4. Automatic Writing seems ok for the level. Perfect knowledge seems to come way too late. Most characters will never get to level 18, and by that time a measly +10 bonus is nothing (even if it is to a lot of skills). I almost feel as if Perfect Knowledge and Automatic Writing should be switched.
I played an Occult Scholar under the previous version and really enjoyed it--the revelations were useful and helped me hit my Knowledge Tasks.
That being said, the new Occult Scholar seems to have lost something in the revision. First, the good:
Being able to add Intelligence to binding checks is worth a binder secret, moreso with the Revelation of Brilliance secret providing Charisma to Knowledge checks.
Esoteric Brilliance provides you with more Int, capping at +6 for a total of 3 new skill points/level. Stacks well with Brilliant Binder (add Int bonus to binding checks) and makes Knowledge Tasks easier. You do give up all your pact augmentations and still need to take Int during character creation as you won't realize any benefit from this until higher levels.
Monstrous Insight gives you the same ability as the Shaman Lore spirit and is a nice bonus--giving up spirit mastery 1/day is worth this ability at 6th level, although I'd like it even earlier.
Next, the "meh." Granted, these abilities replace additional uses of spirit mastery, and for the exchange aren't necessarily underpowered.
Automatic writing gives you divination with 10 minutes of uninterrupted meditation with 90% effectiveness. You get an additional use at 18th and 20th (which most players won't see). Consider that this replaces the old possibility to get the Lore revelation of Automatic Writing (which had divination 90% at 5th level and commune with no material component, but both took 1 hour) and 12th level seems too high for this ability.
Perfect Knowledge gives you tongues and +10 competence bonus on all Knowledge, Linguistics, and Spellcraft checks. While this is a nice ability, 18th level won't be seen by many, and the Knowledge Tasks that this ability would really help on have long been completed in other ways.
True Revelation allows you to take 20 on Knowledge checks, including ones you aren't trained in, and can cast vision 3+Cha/day. Vision as a 20th level ability is. . . underwhelming. You're giving up the feature that lets your supernatural abilities function in an antimagic field as well as automatically getting the capstone empowerment and suffering no penalties for disobeying a spirit's influence. While the Occult Scholar should be able to hit the capstone and get a good pact, I'm not sure the exchange is worth it, as again, Knowledge Tasks you'd need to complete have long since been completed. If this was as the Oracle's Lore Mystery True Revelation then it would be worth it.
Played around with the Eldritch Jailer archetype for the Occultist.
To add, I like the flavor of the annoyed/defiant eidolon. I don't think that Tunneled Lore should be a feature as the Eldritch Jailer is already limited to spirits that grant a Vestigial Companion as their boon. In addition, the eidolon is handled as an animal companion, which means that you have to sacrifice a move action to command the eidolon to perform one of the tricks it knows (and succeed on Handle Animal); you also have to have the Occult Effigy in hand in order to command your eidolon which limits you to one-handed weapons and a buckler unless you abuse weapon-chains or other "hold two-handed one-handed, drop the thing in my other hand, wield as two-handed again" combos. With most GMs I play with this will be "it has to stay in your hand."
Q: Does the eidolon have the "Share Granted Abilities" feature? I'm assuming it does from the sacrifice of the Vestigial Bond ability, but just wanted some clarification.
...We also played wth the occultist archetype Mad Occultist.In addition to bookrat's analysis, I'm not sure if Tunneled Lore is needed for the Mad Cultist. You lose access to all constellation aspects as well as pact augmentations in order to gain the rage ability. If the rage were a normal barbarian rage I may agree more with this, but the Mad Cultist's rage is very dependent upon the spirits she is bound to, unable to attack favored allies and forced to make a Will save or attack a Favored Enemy for 1 round. I think being limited to one constellation (two if you count Starless) may be a bit much and requires the Mad Cultist to plan out the character from 1-20 in order to find the most effective constellation to take; the rage's limitation already enforces intelligent choice when binding and would be difficult even with all constellations:
** spoiler omitted **
Do note that you are only required to attack enemies that fall under the favored enemy of the bound spirit. Not your allies. I had to double check that.
Additionally, each round that a raging mad cultist sees an opponent that qualifies as a favored enemy of one of her bound spirits...
Q: What governs whether an archetype has access to binder secrets? Should all pact magic archetypes that have binding have access to binder secrets? Binder secrets are important with binding, for example, Inquiry, which is almost mandatory for a binder.
The archetypes that have Bind Sprits but no access to binder secrets:
- Barbarian: Totemic Sage
- Cavalier: Pactsworn Knight
- Cleric: Occult Priest
- Druid: Pactsworn Pagan
- Gunslinger: Occult Avenger
- Hunter: Pactsworn Hunter
- Inquisitor: Occult Sadist, Pact Protector
- Oracle: Occult Medium
- Paladin: Pactsworn Champion
- Skald: Soul Screamer
- Slayer: Pactsworn Assassin
- Sorcerer: Seal-Bound Sorcerer
- Summoner: Spirit Caller
- Swashbuckler: Esoteric Dilettante
- Warpriest: Pactsworn Warpriest
- Wizard: Soul Weaver
Do note that you are only required to attack enemies that fall under the favored enemy of the bound spirit. Not your allies. I had to double check that.
Additionally, each round that a raging mad cultist sees an opponent that qualifies as a favored enemy of one of her bound spirits...
True, but it doesn't say "enemy," it says "opponent." If you're forced to attack someone your party doesn't want you to attack, or your rage is preventing you from attacking someone you should, if your party tries to intervene that would qualify them as "opponents," wouldn't it?
EDIT: I admit that I may be getting wrapped up on the wording here, but the Personality Influences of certain spirits will cause conflict with your party.
Although my original point loses some of its effectiveness if your allies never count as opponents, I think it's still valid for the Mad Cultist to not have Tunneled Lore.
Of course, the only thing that comes to mind now is:
Well, don't I feel sheepish.
Which I do. -_-
Played around with the Eldritch Jailer archetype for the Occultist.To add, I like the flavor of the annoyed/defiant eidolon. I don't think that Tunneled Lore should be a feature as the Eldritch Jailer is already limited to spirits that grant a Vestigial Companion as their boon. In addition, the eidolon is handled as an animal companion, which means that you have to sacrifice a move action to command the eidolon to perform one of the tricks it knows (and succeed on Handle Animal); you also have to have the Occult Effigy in hand in order to command your eidolon which limits you to one-handed weapons and a buckler unless you abuse weapon-chains or other "hold two-handed one-handed, drop the thing in my other hand, wield as two-handed again" combos. With most GMs I play with this will be "it has to stay in your hand."
Q: Does the eidolon have the "Share Granted Abilities" feature? I'm assuming it does from the sacrifice of the Vestigial Bond ability, but just wanted some clarification.
Remember, my criticism of the Eldritch Jailer was based entirely on a misunderstanding of the archetype.
Remember, my criticism of the Eldritch Jailer was based entirely on a misunderstanding of the archetype.
Part of it may have been a misunderstanding regarding the tricks, but that's not an issue with the archetype--in fact, I like the flavor of it a lot. I was quoting you more to credit you with getting me thinking more about the archetype.
Q: how does tunneled lore and constellations work with starless spirits? Any page citations would be helpful.
Also, let it be known that Starless spirits aren't affected by tunneled lore. They're not a "constellation."
I don't see a place in the doc that explicitly states starless spirits aren't a constellation other than constellation aspects mentioning not gaining an aspect with a starless spirit. This is with version 1, however, as I don't have version 2 on my phone at the moment.
Many people have noted that the rod of the instant pact sort of usurped the spirit mat; this was an oversight on my part, so I ultimately dropped the rod of the instant pact and created a new magic item to serve in its place. Same cost, but different effect:
"This glass rod is filled with what appears to be dark, black ink that difuses throughout the rod’s interior like blood in water. When the rod is touched to a page (or a similar object) with writing or illustrations on it and a command word is spoken, the rod absorbs all of the writing on the page, leaving it as blank and fresh as an unused writing surface. A rod of the imprisoned letter can store up to 200 pages of information, and a second command word allows the wielder to view that information at her leisure. A third command word allows the wielder to transfer one page of information from the rod onto a blank sheet of paper, following the same limitations as memorize pageacg. This rod cannot absorb or transcribe writing that does not use some sort of medium, such as ink, chalk, or even blood."
I like this rod because I could see it used for many different purposes. Imagine a divine exorcist using the rod to literally obliterate occult writings and references from a tome; suddenly there's a reason why our illustrations often have seals carved directly into stone. Also, occultists could steal written works for one another, or pass secret messages along within the rod.
"This glass rod is filled with what appears to be dark, black ink that difuses throughout the rod’s interior like blood in water. When the rod is touched to a page (or a similar object) with writing or illustrations on it and a command word is spoken, the rod absorbs all of the writing on the page, leaving it as blank and fresh as an unused writing surface. A rod of the imprisoned letter can store up to 200 pages of information, and a second command word allows the wielder to view that information at her leisure. A third command word allows the wielder to transfer one page of information from the rod onto a blank sheet of paper, following the same limitations as memorize pageacg. This rod cannot absorb or transcribe writing that does not use some sort of medium, such as ink, chalk, or even blood."
I'm a huge fan of magic items that aren't class specific and this item has all sorts of non-occult uses as well. An assassin can use it to plant false documents that is written in the target's own hand, not forged; guildmasters could use it to steal blueprints, ledgers, and other important documents from the competition, and even runners could use it to deliver important messages or other documentation that is "for your eyes only."
Very nice!
Also, let it be known that Starless spirits aren't affected by tunneled lore. They're not a "constellation."I don't see a place in the doc that explicitly states starless spirits aren't a constellation other than constellation aspects mentioning not gaining an aspect with a starless spirit. This is with version 1, however, as I don't have version 2 on my phone at the moment.
The above quote was from Alexander discussing the Unbarred binder secret.
Looking through the document, on page 83, in the sidebar:
Constellation: A category of spirits similar to a spell’s school. Constellations represent an organization of stars on the Astral Plane that attract spirits based on their ideologies and values. There are twelve constellations, plus the dark beyond for a total of 13 possible constellations. Constellations are outlined in depth in the [b]‘Spirit Theology’[\b] section.
This states that there are 13 constellations and "Starless" is not mentioned. We don't have the 'Spirit Theology' section yet, so I'm sure it will go into more detail there.
If we added a clarification to page 19, "Selecting Archetypes," about how Starless spirits don't count as a constellation choice (and are always able to be bound) I think it would help clear things up.
Dario threw like fifty really-good questions at me when he read the rod of the imprisoned letter, so here's an update for it:
"Countless words dance within the surface of this glass rod. When the rod is touched to a page with writing or illustrations written with a liquid-based medium (such as ink or blood) and a command word is spoken, the rod removes all trace of those writings, functioning as erase, absorbing the medium used to create them. These works are not lost, however; any page destroyed by the rod is stored within it and can be viewed upon its glass surface by speaking a second command word and by speaking a third command word, the wielder can expel one page of work stored within the rod onto a blank page. A rod of the imprisoned letter can store up to 200 pages of information and a page can be permanently erased from the rod by speaking a fourth command word. When copying written words, the rod follows the same limitations as memorize pageacg."
Dario threw like fifty really-good questions at me when he read the rod of the imprisoned letter, so here's an update for it...
That clarifies a lot of what I was just inferring and listing erase in addition to memorize page covers your bases for both absorbing/expelling and related questions.
Do you have the price or requirements for crafting defined yet?
Dario threw like fifty really-good questions at me when he read the rod of the imprisoned letter, so here's an update for it...That clarifies a lot of what I was just inferring and listing erase in addition to memorize page covers your bases for both absorbing/expelling and related questions.
Do you have the price or requirements for crafting defined yet?
Yeah, its cheap. REAL cheap. Its effects are based off of two 1st-level spells, after all. ;-)
Do you have the price or requirements for crafting defined yet?Yeah, its cheap. REAL cheap. Its effects are based off of two 1st-level spells, after all. ;-)
That's what I was hoping to hear. :)
Q: I had an additional question concerning Granted Abilities (this applies more to Major Abilities)--if an ability requires a melee attack, is the ability still expended on a miss or is it treated similar to shocking grasp?
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere else--currently my research and memory are failing me.
Q: I had an additional question concerning Granted Abilities (this applies more to Major Abilities)--if an ability requires a melee attack, is the ability still expended on a miss or is it treated similar to shocking grasp?
Forgive me if this is stated somewhere else--currently my research and memory are failing me.
You can't "hold the charge" for a major granted ability, no. So if you miss / fail, its still expended. I might try to squeeze that in the description somewhere.
You can't "hold the charge" for a major granted ability, no. So if you miss / fail, its still expended. I might try to squeeze that in the description somewhere.
Are you referring to the "Granted Abilities" section in the Pactmaking chapter? If so, that'd save space with the spirits' pages.
You can't "hold the charge" for a major granted ability, no. So if you miss / fail, its still expended. I might try to squeeze that in the description somewhere.Are you referring to the "Granted Abilities" section in the Pactmaking chapter? If so, that'd save space with the spirits' pages.
I concur. I think that chapter would be the best place for this rules clarification.
Is there any way to improve the steal combat maneuver bonus for Tommy Greensprout's major granted ability?
All I can find so far is the Improved Steal feat which gives a mighty +2. Also a must have for Tommy because otherwise using his major ability provokes an attack of opportunity, which makes combat expertise a feat tax for this spirit. Also agile maneuvers is a must have because Tommy grants a -2 penalty to str, con, and wis (you need str for the age swipe), and a +2 bonus to dex.