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It changed from physical damage to sonic
The ability was ambiguously worded and the archetype is called the sound striker and the ability mentions sound multiple times. That being clarified to be sonic damage wasn't out of the picture
I also don't see the big deal. There's like three monsters that are resistant to sonic damage, on the other hand you now bypass the MUCh more prevelant DR. That seems to be a big improvement, not a nerf.
and it no longer grants a save, so no, the same feats and abilities don't all apply.
What abilities would apply to that in pfs?
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Rather than arguing for or against a rebuild for this particular change, I suggest a separate thread to clarify the rule in the guide to organized play. It most definitely can be read as "if a class changes, if a prestige class changes, or if a class-feature dependent ability score changes." This particular situation should be covered by that rule without the need to argue the merits of whether or not a particular build was affected. The rule was added to the guide to avoid the need for that discussion. So the only way to really address the issue is to address the rule in the guide, because that can be argued either way.
So, no, Mike should not need to clarify whether or not sound striker bards get a rebuild, because the rule in the guide should cover the situation already. But there is apparently still quite a bit of disagreement about what the rule in the guide actually says. At the very least, the suggestion of new language for that rule should be made before the release of the season 7 guide.
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I have no dog in the fight, but how is an archetype not being altered is not the same as a class being altered? An archetype is just an alternate class, right? This is an actual question, I don't really care one way or another if Sound Striker Bards get rebuilds or not.
Edit to sound a bit less confrontational.
The rule has nothing to do with a change to the archetype. It only refers to a change to an ability score Dependant thing.
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It does not mean that, and lists aren't parsed that way.
No rebuild is allowed. There is no reason for Mike to comment.
Sorry, but making an emphatic statement does NOT change the fact that the sentence is ambiguous. English is a context sensitive language and a great many constructs are inherently ambiguous.
I suspect that we could find grammar guides that would state the sentence unambiguously meant one alternative or the other. They'd be wrong. It is ambiguous.
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I think the rule is unclear, but I think it probably is supposed to mean ability score dependent things.
*Unofficial personal thoughts*
That said I think the Sound Striker may qualify for a rebuild under the current rules.
Before, the Soundstriker used charisma to determine the save DC of their power.
They no longer do.
The class feature dependent ability score for the save DC of weird words was changed from charisma to nill.
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Out of curiosity
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And if a person had taken any abilities that let them mitigate or ignore DR, they're now worthless for the character.
That isn't at all true.
The character can still use those abilities, just not in conjunction with Wierd Words. So while you may not feel that it benefits you the way you wanted it to when you took those levels or feats, you can still use them.|
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Im betting those aren't the ppl crying for a rebuild.Your argument is coming from the position that you either ignored the ability (in which case why take the archetype?) or focused everything you had on it. I'm pretty sure there are options in between.No, but focusing every resource and character option on one feature of that archetype is building a house of cards, and you should recognize it's a risk.Is simply playing the archetype of Sound Striker a rules-bendy gray area?While his judgment may be a little extreme, I have a sneaking suspicion that people who play inside the grey area of the rules have a pretty good sense of when they're playing within the grey area of the rules.
I mean, I know when I do.
Nefreet: You would lose that bet, since, among other things, my Sound Striker Bard is 5th level, not yet 6th, so this ability doesn't kick in yet.
To be honest, the FAQ came out after I had put in the expense to retrain my Bard out of being a Sound Striker, because the archetype's 6th level ability, before the actual FAQ release, was badly written, and subject to Table Variation. Because I have not yet played my Bard after the retrain, I could retract the retrain if I so desired, since no one but myself ever saw the retrained version.
Right now, I am contemplating whether I want to retrain him out of the new, clarified Sound Striker archetype or not. One way saves me 5 PP and some gold. The other way is what I am asking about.
@Dwayne: And, if all you ever took those abilities for was the old Weird Words ability, and had nothing else that could use them, how do they benefit you?
My Bard was pure support. During combat, I would have a sword in one hand, and a flag in the other, performing Inspire Courage and providing the Flagbearer morale bonus. The longsword was to provide flanking, if the combat ever got too close to me, not for me to use. I was going to use the Weird Words ability to provide a bit of a damage boost in combat, when my teammates needed it. Whether the 6+ words could target a single enemy or not was a question. Whether the 6+ attack rolls, damage rolls and GM-required saving throws was worth it or not, as well.
The new version is simpler, but not worth the same investment in resources. The original version, with 6-10 words, might have been worth taking Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. The new version, with only 1 or 2 Words in normal PFS play, may not be worth that level of investment in ranged combat. Especially if the Bard isn't already built as an archer.
Harmonic Sage looks nice, but, seriously, is not a great option if the Bard already has, say, Lingering Performance. At least, on first glance, the extra round doesn't look like it would stack. And the bonus to DC becomes of very limited use to a Sound Striker, since they have given up suggestion.
No, my request was to clarify if the change to the Sound Striker archetype, which is about as profound as you can get without actually changing the base class, would qualify for a free rebuild for the Sound Striker Bard in PFS.
To be honest, it is about the same size change as changing the favored weapon for a deity would be. How much difference would there be if Desna changed from Star Knife to Punch Dagger?