Counterspelling while Blind


Rules Questions


In our current campaign, our sorcerer got hit with Blindness and is wondering if he can now cast Dispel Magic to counterspell anything with verbal components. He is in combat with two other magic users, a Male Wizard and a Female Sorceress. He could possibly choose his target based off of their voices, but I can't find anything about this sort of deal in the rules. Opinions?


I am not sure, there may be other considerations involved, but to counterspell you have to identify the spell with spellcraft. Under spellcraft it states

"Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast"

If you cannot see it, you cannot identify it therefore you cannot counterspell it?


I personally doubt he could, but Jayder did cut off an important part of the entry. Here's the full entry:

Identifying Spell Being Cast wrote:
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.

One could rule that in order to make a Spellcraft check, one must make a Perception check in order to actually see the creature casting the spell, and is especially true when we factor in distance and obstacles between the PC and the creature in question. Of course, this line from the Blinded condition here:

Blinded wrote:
All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail.

would result in a failed Perception check, and therefore an inability to actually make a Spellcraft check.

Another plausible method of accomplishing this is by saying that the PC can hear the words of incantation and try to make a Perception check that way, but RAW would disregard that, which means it boils down to RAI territory. Since each caster's scribing methods and incantations are different, unless they are incantations that a PC would be familiar with, such as by being a student or have been a teacher to the enemy (and by the book, these aren't actual factors to consider), it's not a viable avenue.

The final plausible scenario is if the PC has secondary senses (such as Blindsight, Tremorsense, etc). he could use those to pin-point the creature casting the spell (and if argued enough, determine the manner of movements being made to see if it is or isn't a spell being cast).

If the PC has access to none of these avenues, he's simply screwed and he might as well draw up a new character sheet (because Blindness/Deafness is perhaps one of the most powerful low-level Save or Suck spells).


But he is attempting to use Dispel Magic to counterspell. He doesn't need to know exactly what spell is being cast, he just needs to figure out that a spell is being cast.

The SRD wrote:

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell

You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).

From the Dispel Magic description:

The SRD wrote:
Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.


Volvagnos wrote:

But he is attempting to use Dispel Magic to counterspell. He doesn't need to know exactly what spell is being cast, he just needs to figure out that a spell is being cast.

The SRD wrote:

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell

You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).

From the Dispel Magic description:

The SRD wrote:
Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster's spell.

I highly suggest you read the entire section before you close it off, as you pulled the same mistake that Jayder did:

Counterspells wrote:

To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing to ready an action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. You may still move at your normal speed, since ready is a standard action.

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can't do either of these things.

A spellcraft check must be taken every time you counterspell. Spellcraft checks require that you can clearly see the spell being cast. Being blinded automatically causes any activity or skill check that requires sight (in this case, the Spellcraft check) to fail. Failing the check means you cannot counter the spell.

I will also go ahead and point out that there is a minor error here in regards to taking the Spellcraft check, since by RAW you cannot take free actions (or anything except immediate actions) outside your turn unless specified. No specification is made, meaning by RAW counterspelling is impossible (though I am 100% positive that the RAI says the opposite).


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

I highly suggest you read the entire section before you close it off, as you pulled the same mistake that Jayder did:

I was going to ignore your first post mentioning I left this part off, but I just wanted to chime in here.

I don't think there was any mistake leaving that part off, I left it off intentionally. The section I left off seems irrelevant to me concerning the discussion, as you succinctly put in a later post

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

A spellcraft check must be taken every time you counterspell. Spellcraft checks require that you can clearly see the spell being cast. Being blinded automatically causes any activity or skill check that requires sight (in this case, the Spellcraft check) to fail. Failing the check means you cannot counter the spell.

It doesn't matter what kind of additional penalties may be added on to the spellcraft check, if you cannot see it you cannot make it (as you said).

I think in the end we are both on the same page though, which is what matters.

Now, While I think the RAW is clear, the GM could always bend the rules if he wanted to allow it. Maybe allow an attempt at a spellcraft check while blind, but impose penalties. For instance, -5 penalty for being blind, additional -2 if the spell has somatic or material components. (i.e. he hears the spell being cast, but doesn't see the hand gesture or the bat guano in the hand, so might not recognize fireball). Any of this would be going against strict raw as I said but also wouldn't surprise me if a GM ruled this way to be lenient.

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