The spell "Hold Person" has in it's description:
"School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]"
and in it's text:
"The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place."
There are 2 conditions, one specifically for paralyzed and the "Helpless" condition which mentions the word "held" amongst others.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Helpless
Looking at an Ancient White Dragon who is not immune against mind effects, but paralysis.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/dragons/dragon/chromatic- white/ancient-white-dragon
My question is, does Hold Monster effect this dragon?
In my opinion, it should. The helpless condition specifically refers to being "held", but holding a Monster/Person is usually resolved with the grapple condition, so to what else would it refer?
Usually (for example Stinking Cloud) spells do have relevant information right at the top. For example Stinking Cloud is noted as being "poison", which means all Monster that are immune against poison aren't effected.
The dragon is also specifically immune against Sleep.
On the other hand in the special abilities section under paralysis it says "Some monsters and spells have the supernatural or spell-like ability to paralyze their victims, immobilizing them through magical means." Which has me second guessing myself.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Paralysis
There are many things that make you helpless. Being held by a grapple is not one of them.
Dragons would be immune to hold monster because it applies the paralyze condition. If you are paralyzed you are helpless because you can not defend yourself. Basically if someone can walk up and slit your throat, then you are likely helpless. That is why being paralyzed and being unconscious count as being helpless.
I know that grapple doesn't make you helpless, I actually used that fact to support my interpretation of Hold Person because "Helpless" specifically mentions being "held". I know of nothing that would qualify as holding somebody which isn't grapple, except Hold Person.
I think that the word paralysis is used in the Hold Person spell to describe the effect of the spell, but doesn't actually apply the condition.
The dragon is immune to the effect of Hold Monster, because hold monster only applies paralysis and the dragon is immune.
The "freezes in place" is just a descriptive term, not a condition.
Than why don't they do the same thing, if they are the same?
Paralysis: but can take purely mental actions.
Hold Person:It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions
Because the rules aren't always nice and neat and make sense.
Even if "freezes in place" was a separate effect from paralyzed, that would not lead to any sort of conclusion that they cannot take mental actions. It would mean they physically cannot move.
So why does hold person/monster have an extra caveat about taking no actions. Because at the time the spell was written it was likely loosely worded and no one considered the possibility of mental only actions at the time.
That is my guess.
At the very least, freezes in place isn't defined. So it difficult to infer any meaning beyond cannot physically move.
Paralysis is defined and dragons are immune.
If you use the above meaning for freezes in place, it sounds identical to paralyzed.
>So why does hold person/monster have an extra caveat about taking no actions. Because at the time the spell was written it was likely loosely worded and no one considered the possibility of mental only actions at the time.
You could literally use this argument about the word paralysis in the spell.You are also not accounting for the use of the word "held" in the Helpless condition.
No you cannot use that argument about paralyzed. That condition is defined in the game glossary.
The word held in the helpless condition means that if a monster is held, they are also helpless. But if you are immune to the effect that would cause you to be held, you are not helpless. Helpless also mentions paralyzed, so I'm just not seeing your point.
Than why don't they do the same thing, if they are the same?
Paralysis: but can take purely mental actions.
Hold Person:It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions
Actually hold person specifically calls out that it gives the paralyzed condition. It then goes on to be more restrictive by saying you can not take any actions while paralyzed. Basically the spell was made to go beyond paralysis normal limitations and shut you down completely.