Phalanx Fighter + duelist + slashing Grace


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Okay. Let's look at the FAQ you linked earlier.

Firstly, BBT has mentioned that the Bastard Sword IS an anomaly. And yes, it really is.

Secondly...

Quote:
For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it.

Bolded part needs to be noted.

Quote:
An unusual case of the handedness rule is an ability that allows you to treat a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. For example, the titan mauler's jotungrip (which allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand) allows you to wield a bastard sword in one hand even without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and (as the ability states) treats it as a one-handed weapon, therefore it is treated as a one-handed weapon for other effects.

And again, note the bolded part. These things are specifically dealing with Bastard Swords. Why? Because the Bastard Sword is a weird weapon.

The reason we're telling you "this won't work" concerning you having that class feature is that this sort of debate does come up every now and then, and there's often someone like you that's looking at the FAQ concerning the bastard sword and asserting "No, really, it applies to this other weapon too."

It doesn't.

I really wish that Martial Versatility wasn't necessary for a lot of builds like this, but in this case, as far as my understanding of the rules goes - and you can contest this as much as you like, and I won't press the matter any further in this thread after this post - the feat is necessary for you to do what you want to do.


Abraham spalding wrote:
"You can use it that way but you don't treat it as if it was one" is BS

Actually, it's "you can use some of them that way under some circumstances, but that doesn't mean that you treat all of them that way for all circumstances".

Or to put it more simply, a polearm of the right size is a one-handed weapon for a Phalanx Fighter when he's wielding it with a shield. A given type of polearm is still a two-handed weapon for a Phalanx Fighter when he's choosing a weapon type to use with Slashing Grace.

Grand Lodge

The Bastard Sword FAQ doesn't dispute a thing I say.

It actually goes with what I was saying.

First, the Bastard Sword has it's own specific rules.

Say there was an enchantment that could only be placed on two-handed weapons.

You could not place that on a Bastard Sword.

If there was a feat that said "choose a two-handed weapon", then you could not choose the Bastard Sword.

So, whilst wielding it as a Two-handed weapon, it is treated as a Two-handed weapon, but it still counts an One-handed weapon, when not wielding it.

It's not a "not like it" situation.

For things that apply when not wielding the said weapon, it is treated as it's base.

There is nothing in the FAQ that suggests otherwise.

Nothing.

Contributor

Inlaa wrote:

You can take Slashing Grace with a Bastard Sword because it IS a 1-handed melee weapon and is classified as such on weapon tables.

You cannot take Slashing Grace with a polearm because treating it as a 1-handed weapon and it actually BEING a 1-handed weapon are two totally different things.

Is this annoying? Yes. Is this RAW? Yes. If you want to do this in a home game, nothing is stopping you, but Blackbloodtroll is right: you cannot use this in a RAW game without Martial Versatility and Slashing Grace (Sibat).

Sorry if the bolded sentence seems pretentious or anything, but it really needs emphasis.

Here's a copy of the FAQ that states that you're wrong.

Specifically, this line:

FAQ wrote:
An unusual case of the handedness rule is an ability that allows you to treat a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon. For example, the titan mauler's jotungrip (which allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand) allows you to wield a bastard sword in one hand even without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and (as the ability states) treats it as a one-handed weapon, therefore it is treated as a one-handed weapon for other effects.

Basically, Weapon Focus doesn't care if the weapon that you pick is one-handed or not, so when Slashing Grace rolls around, it checks to see A) if you have Weapon Focus and B) if Weapon Focus is with a one-handed weapon. If you use my build, you DO have Weapon Focus and if you also have phalanx fighting, polearms ARE one-handed weapons for you while you are wearing a shield, so they satisfy Slashing Grace's prerequisites. Yes, it comes with the side note that you can only use swashbuckler finesse and Slashing Grace with a polearm while you're also using a bucker, but that's usually not going to be a problem for most people.


... I do find it amusing that that FAQ continues to be linked after at least two statements pointing out why it doesn't matter. Including at the top of this page.

That said. Nobody is arguing that if you have Slashing Grace (Fauchard) it wouldn't work for a Phalanx Fighter. Indeed, the FAQ pretty much spells that out.

The problem is you never qualify for the feat. Slashing Grace does actually check the weapon selected. Specifically, it says "Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon".

Regardless of whether you can wield a fauchard in one hand, two hands, or four hands, it is not a kind of one-handed slashing weapon. A Phalanx Fighter 3 with a fauchard does not satisfy Slashing Grace's prerequisite.

The fact that it works as a one-handed slashing weapon while being held by a single person who happens to also be holding a buckler (and can we pause for a moment to recognize how silly the Phalanx Fighter's ability actually is when you think about it?) honestly kind of works against you. That's a pretty clear display that Slashing Grace is never a 'kind of one handed slashing weapon'. It's a two-handed slashing weapon that we're jumping through hoops to use one-handed, and that's an entirely different thing.

Now!

If you can somehow get Slashing Grace onto your Fighter-- through Martial Versatility or the like-- then yes, you can have your Dex-to-Damage polearm. Once you have the feat you're good, you just don't qualify for the feat. The result of Grace having different wording in different places.

Grand Lodge

Actually, Slashing Grace is worded as such:

Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Slashing Grace (Combat)

You can stab your enemies with your sword or another slashing weapon.

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.

Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler's or a duelist's precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon's damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

It doesn't say "weapon you have Weapon Focus with". This why the Martial Versatility/Weapon Specialization combo works.

Martial Versatility works with the chosen feat, for all weapons of the appropriate Fighter Weapon Group, regardless of the prerequisites of the feat. You simply look to the benefits to see how it applies.

This means the Slashing Grace/Martial Versatility/Phalanx Soldier combo works.

Grand Lodge

Hell, the example feat in Martial Versatility, is Weapon Focus, which requires proficiency.

Still, Martial Versatility applies, even if you not proficient with the weapon.

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