TWF Ranger Build

[jlord]

So I'm making a TWF Ranger and so far I'm loving him. We just reached 2nd level. I'm used to playing spellcasters so I'm a bit rusty when it comes to the martial characters so I wanted some advice on my build.

Party: Rogue, Wizard, Ranger (me ^_^) and a Cleric that has mostly been carborded.

Human Ranger
Str 20
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 15
Cha 8

(18 in Str, 8 in charisma, the other 4 rolled 1d10+7, straight down, Took the Dual talent racial substitution ability and added a +2 to Str and +2 Con for the above stats. )

I was planning on going Scimitar Kukri Ranger but after a few close calls and it being an evil campaign maybe a Scimitar and Quickdraw Shield might be a better plan...

1 Power Attack
2 CS TWF
3 Combat Reflexes or Improved Shield Bash
4 +1 Wis Wolf Companion
5 Boon Companion
6 CS ITWF
7 Out Flank**
8 +1 str
9 Paired Opportunist** or Improved Critical
10 CS TWR*
11 Dazing Assult or Shield Mastery
12 +1 str
13 Coordinated Charge* or Bashing Finish
14 CS DOUBLE SLICE*
15 ??? or Dazzing Assult
16 +1 str
17 ???
18 CS Greater TWF*
19 ???
20 +1 str

My Original Plan was to go Kukri and Scimitar and Cestus, but The idea of using a quickdraw shield for the added protection and bashing finish is starting to sound like a good idea. With my poor dex the extra AC might be worth it, although I won't be criting as much as I would with a Kurkri in the off hand.

*Not entirely sure which order I want to go with on these feats yet

**These Depend on Other characters and My wolf so I guess we will see. There is a great sounding combo with Paired Opportunist and Outflank granting me an AoO if I crit but that assumes that line in Paired Opportunist referring to taking an AoO when others can only applies to if they are adjacent or not. the wording if vague there.

Thoughts on the Wolf
The idea is I want to focus him on tripping and locking down opponents and Teamwork feats with the ranger.
4 Armor P Light
5 Combat reflexes
5 Paired Opportunist
8 Out Flank
10 ???
13 ???
16 ???
18 Coordinated Charge

Are the Teamwork feats worth it? And I was really planning on Scimitar and Kukri but that extra AC, Shield Mastery, and Bashing Finish with a quick draw shield looks pretty good too... Any recommendations are appreciated! Let me know what you think.

Thanks!

[Dennis Deadsky]

With Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, your intended tripping focus, and interest in Paired opportunist you might consider carrying a reach weapon. As in, start with the reach weapon, use it to get several extra attacks at the start of combat, then draw your dual weapons. Idea is to maximize your damage output when you can't full attack (which is quite often!), then switch weapons to dual-wielding to maximize damage when you can full attack.

You would need to fit in the Quickdraw feat for the quick switch. This option might give you an impressive first-round damage increase. This will only work really well, though, if your team is tactically competent.

What does it mean "Cleric that has mostly been carborded"?

Other than those suggestions, your Ranger looks pretty reasonable.

[jlord]

Yeah didn't think of the 2 handed weapon route. I might have to look into that...

The plan was to go 2 handed on the scimitar and draw the kukri with one of those spring loaded wrist sheaths. and if I had to move between multiple foes use the cesti to attack as the 2nd weapon.

but maybe using a quickdraw shield might be the way to fly... Charge and 2 hand a weapon and then draw the shield for ac. Its less critical intensive but the added AC and feats like shield mastery and bashing finish might make it worth it... or if I don't want to go into the Shield feats I could use the Cesti as the off hand weapon and draw the shield after the attacks so I have the AC between turns...

And I meant that the player for the cleric is rarely there due to school so hes super generic and I'm not sure what the actual player plans to do with him at the time...

[Kazaan]

Here's some tips:

1) Try to go for a double weapon. With nice Str and Power Attack, you can easily use it as a 2-h weapon for times when it's better to do that (ie, can't full-attack). I'd suggest a double weapon with a reach option like Kusarigama or Double-chain Kama so you have the best of all three worlds. This would require EWP which means either a dip, spending a first level feat, or going for Half-Elf w/ Ancestral Arms. Alternatively, Half-Orc would give you easy access to the Orc Double Axe. If you want a Martial or Simple double weapon, aim for either a Monk's Spade or a Quarterstaff.

2) Try to go for 15 starting Dex and take TWF normally. It'll give you a tad bit more starting AC and you then you can take, say, Double Slice at lvl 2. You'd either have to forgo Power Attack at lvl 1, or drop the Dual Talent.

3) Two-Weapon Defense will do you better than a Quickdraw Shield. Quickdraw shield is only +1 AC and shields need a handful of feats to be effective. Two-Weapon Defense gives you +1 dodge bonus to AC and works alongside your two-weapon fighting. It also gives you +2 if you fight defensively which you don't get with the shield.

4) Are you keen using Ranger spells? If not, pick up the Skirmisher archetype as it trades out spells. You're a pretty focused damage dealer anyway and, if you have a better support caster in the party, no need to split your focus. Alternatively, maybe go for Slayer instead of Ranger.

[rorek55]

I'd rather see two scimitars (effortless lace) the shield will get you 1-2 extra ac, while dual scimitars gets you one weapon focus feat, and plan rule of cool. I've never been a stickler for ac anyway unless I'm a fighter (not mounted) or a monk.

Edit: if you want to, you can look into seeing if your GM is willing to let you refluff the two bladed sword into 'twin blades' that join together at the hilt/hand guards. Reasons- you can fluffly join them to strike two handed, or seperate them for TWF. Best part is this follows double weapon rules perfectly and IMO adds more flavor to it.

[Kazaan]

There has been some discussion as to whether effortless lace actually helps twf. It states the weapon counts as light for "feats, class abilities, and magic effects. Using a light weapon in the offhand isn't based on a feat; its a general combat rule available to anyone.

[rorek55]

TWF stats this-

Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties
Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8
Two-Weapon Fighting feat –4 –4
Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat –2 –2

Ergo, as far as TWF feat is concerned your off-hand is a light weapon.

[Kazaan]

To what end? What part of the benefit line says it works differently for light weapons? It may be a light weapon for the purpose of the TWF feat itself, but the TWF feat doesn't function any differently for light or non-light weapons; it just reduces your main-hand penalty by 2 and off-hand by 6, full-stop. The part about getting an additional 2 off each hand is granted by standard combat rules, not a feat, class-ability, or magic effect. You can even see it's under the "normal" line in the feat; a reminder that these benefits the TWF feat gives are separate and distinct from the benefit that fighting with a light off-hand gives. That's the source of contention; whoever wrote the rules for Effortless Lace forgot to take into consideration that two-weapon fighting (include the light off-hand rule) is a general combat rule available to anyone and the feat merely reduces penalties. He was working on the assumption that TWF was based on a feat. He should have included TWF rules elements in his list of things the Effortless Lace works for. Essentially, it's in need of an errata and, before an official errata, some GMs may choose to enforce strict rules-as-written. YMMV.

[rorek55]

I seriously don't see where you are coming from or how you got their. (not to sound rude)

However this doesn't -really- matter, as you are still reducing the penalty by -2 light weapon or not.

effotless lace-
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon's magic permanently merges with the weapon, reducing the attack roll penalty incurred by a wielder who is smaller than the weapon's intended wielder by 2 (to a minimum penalty of 0).

If the weapon is wielded by a creature whose size matches that of the weapon's intended wielder, the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.

Once an effortless lace's abilities have been conveyed to a weapon, the ribbon must remain attached to the weapon or its effects end immediately, its magic is permanently lost, and it is reduced to worthless cloth. Effects that would dispel the magic of the weapon or cause the weapon to gain the broken condition (such as sundering) destroy the ribbon as well.

[Kazaan]

rorek55 wrote:

I seriously don't see where you are coming from or how you got their. (not to sound rude)

However this doesn't -really- matter, as you are still reducing the penalty by -2 light weapon or not.

effotless lace-
When wrapped around the grip of a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon for 24 hours, the ribbon's magic permanently merges with the weapon, reducing the attack roll penalty incurred by a wielder who is smaller than the weapon's intended wielder by 2 (to a minimum penalty of 0).

If the weapon is wielded by a creature whose size matches that of the weapon's intended wielder, the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.

Once an effortless lace's abilities have been conveyed to a weapon, the ribbon must remain attached to the weapon or its effects end immediately, its magic is permanently lost, and it is reduced to worthless cloth. Effects that would dispel the magic of the weapon or cause the weapon to gain the broken condition (such as sundering) destroy the ribbon as well.

The -2 only applies if the wielder is smaller than the intended size for the weapon. So a Medium creature wielding a Large Longsword wouldn't suffer the normal -2 penalty for wielding an oversized weapon. But a Medium creature wielding a Medium Longsword can treat it as a light weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons. Getting reduced TWF penalties for wielding a light weapon in your off-hand has nothing to do with weapon finesse, nor a feat, spell, or special weapon ability. To further elaborate, say there's a hypothetical class ability that lets you wield light weapons with +1 attack bonus. This is a class ability so it is neither Weapon Finesse, nor is is a feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons. Therefore, Effortless Lace on the Longsword wouldn't let you use this ability to get +1 on attacks with said Longsword. By the same token, getting your TWF penalties reduced by 2 for using a light off-hand isn't part of the TWF feat, it's general combat rules listed in the Combat section.