Has anyone tried gaming without or limiting the use of perception checks? I'd very much like to hear from you and how you handle it.
Rather than players interacting with the rooms description I notice more and more GM's and players relying on perception as a shortcut. (example below)
GM: <box text detailed description of room>
Player: I look around (rolls perception)
GM: You find hidden under the rug a map...
GM and Players, how do you handle or use the perception skill? GM's, if you don't use the perception skill how do you handle the necessary details you expect players to find but for whatever reason they are unable to find?
Like many players, I find Perception overused. As a GM, I find it frustrating because it can so easily make or break an adventure.
If there are clues hidden in a room, then it's a safe assumption that the PCs are meant to find them. Botched Perception checks lead to missed clues, which can lead to a derailed or dull story. I will sometimes fudge events to hand PCs the info they need. (For example, "As you move across the room, Rodgar's boot quite accidentally flips back one corner of the rug, and he notices something beneath it...")
The best use for Perception comes when paired against Stealth, to determine surprise rounds. When I GM, I usually do these sorts of rolls behind the screen -- the app "Pathfinder Toolkit" speeds this process up a bit -- so the players do not have to keep saying "I'm keeping an eye out for trouble." The same applies to traps.
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GM's, if you don't use the perception skill how do you handle the necessary details you expect players to find but for whatever reason they are unable to find?
I don't require rolls to discover things that advance the plot. My time is limited, my players time is limited, I will not allow "pixel b@*!~ing" to stall my game.
The vital clue will be found. Successful rolls (or particularly high ones) will reveal ADDITIONAL clues, or information that makes the primary clue more advantageous.
EX: The players find a clue that says the evil cult stole the artifact. A high perception might indicate when they took it, or what method they used (giving some clue as to their power level and capabilities). The players might request other skill checks then, successes grant additional useful information, while failures might be misinformation OR reveal other complications that the PC's are going to have to deal with (making their situation harder).
What grinds my gears is the avalanche of search checks once one player rolls a check.
Right now when I GM I ask players to be semi-descriptive in what they are doing. Noting too in depth, just that they articulate how thorough (time wise) they are searching.
If an concerted effort was made to hide an item I require a search check vs the persons hide DC with large bonuses if the person searching is close or spending more time. No formula...just on the fly common sense bonuses.
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I've talked about this subject at length before, first a few rules to note:
Take 10: Encourage your players to "Take 10" whenever possible, and as a GM have a copy of their Perception when they "Take 10" (or Passive Perception). Incorporate any hidden things directly into the description of the room when the player's Passive Perception exceeds the DC of the hidden thing.
[i]This lavish royal bedroom is round, 20 feet in diameter, a circular pit in the middle of the room is lined with a soft cushion material, and pillows haphazardly strewn about it. Along the walls are chests of drawers, some of them hang open with clothes hanging out. There is an exit to the north and to the east.
Modred (The Druid): You notice a bulge underneath the pillow pit.
Darktread (The Rogue): You notice that there isn't an equal amount of drawers on both chests, even though the size of the chests and drawers are similar.
Time:
Searching a 5 ft. square is a move action. So if a player wants to roll Perception, just ask them where are they searching? The chests of drawers, the cushion pit, or the exit doors?Taking 20: Sometimes the PCs really want to toss a room and find everything. NO PROBLEM. Each five foot square is one minute. Count the number of squares in the room. That's how many minutes it takes to toss the whole room.
Finally:
Use the rules that exist to make your game more than a flurry of perception rolls. When PCs enter a room without monsters, go around the table and ask them what in the room draws their interest.
I don't really think about it too hard. If it's something they have to find (a clue that moves the plot forward) they should just find it automatically, otherwise one runs the risk of every party member failing their checks and the plot grinds to a halt.
When it comes to making checks, I generally ask them what specificaly their doing with Perception. Looking for traps, listening for the sounds of enemies, etc. etc., so it still requires some forethought on their part.
What grinds my gears is the avalanche of search checks once one player rolls a check.
I'm assuming by this that you mean "once one guy rolls a check, if he rolls low or finds nothing the rest of the party suddenly wants to roll". I usually don't allow that unless they've previously stated they're assisting with the search. Granted I usually don't have players who try to force the issue either.
What grinds my gears is the avalanche of search checks once one player rolls a check.I'm assuming by this that you mean "once one guy rolls a check, if he rolls low or finds nothing the rest of the party suddenly wants to roll". I usually don't allow that unless they've previously stated they're assisting with the search. Granted I usually don't have players who try to force the issue either.
Another way to rule that is they can examine what has already been found, in an attempt to find more detail about it, but they can't discover separate things.
Ex: A player rolls perception and fails to find a secret door under a statue, because they rolled low. Someone else rolls, they could examine the statue in further detail, but would not reveal the secret door.