| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Silliness aside,
Paizo has been very particular, especially James Jacobs, about insisting on not putting definitions or limitations on gods. So I think that the clearest answer will also seem like a cop out: gods are those beings whose power exceeds the descriptive capacity of stats.
... ^ this is the most correct answer, as is,
Is it being unkillable except by another god or something of Earthfall level?
^ this.
They have been noted to be presumed to be roughly CR 36-or-so, but they don't want to put stats on because they want them to be beyond the idea that they can be killed in combat by anything other than high-powered demigods or other gods (relegating their deaths or exchanges to story-things instead of combat-things).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There are no gods. There are extremely powerful beings able to be a conduit to the divine source for others, but I myself can be said conduit.. Does that make me a god? No, it doesn't. It' said that if you pass the Test of the Starstone you become a god. Iomedae, Cayden Cailean, Norgorber, Razmir and even I did... so then does that make me a god as much as them? No. It makes them not gods, just extremely powerful beings worshipped to help you tap into the divine source. Maybe that divine source is a god or goddess, but that is unknowable, even by the so-called gods.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
A quasi-deity is an entity that possesses at least one domain (capping and 4 domains and 4 subdomains) and can grant divine spells to compatible worshipers, but lacks the capacity to maintain a malleable outer planar realm composed of soul stuff - quintessence. Mythic (im)mortals with divine source, nascent demon lords, daemonic harbingers, malebranches, and infernal dukes are examples of quasi-deities. Quasi-deities cap out at CR 25. The abilities of a quasi-deity are easily defined - I think Malebranche is the only type we don't have the base template for.
A demi-deity is an entity that possesses 4 domains and 4 subdomains, can grant divine spells to compatible worshipers, and can maintain a malleable divine realm composed of quintessence where they can receive and utilize the souls of their worshipers, and gain additional abilities while in their divine realm. Not all demi-deities choose to do so. Examples of demi-deities include the Goblin Hero Gods, the Orc Gods, demon lords, the archdukes of Hell, the Four Horsemen, and the Empyreal Lords. The abilities of a demi-deity can be defined and their limits clearly set. These guys start at CR 26 and go up to CR 30.
Great Old Ones are an odd exception, as they have the extra abilities that most demigods gain in their divine realms (such as having access to the mythic versions of all of its SLAs) without having divine realms. Considering that they're unkillable, perhaps a Great Old One and its divine realm are meshed together into a single unit?
A true deity is an entity that possesses 5 domains and at least 5 subdomains, can grant divine spells to compatible worshipers, and can maintain multiple divine realms composed of quintessence. (Shelyn and Desna each maintain at least two; Asmodeus arguably maintains 9 if you consider every layer of Hell to be a separate divine realm that he loans to each layer's Archduke. Most deities just have one.) Gods are deliberately left undefined, and their limits are unclear. Under special circumstances, Gods can be vanquished or consumed or destroyed. Gods are not omniscient and not omnipotent, yet can do things that are completely outside the grasp of lesser beings.
Like tear a planet open, create a demiplane in the planet's core, shove another god in there, and then put the planet back together more or less intact. (Okay, more than one deity was involved with that, but still.) Or create a demigod from nothingness while fiddling around with star arranging. Or create an impossibly vast new layer of a plane of existence to provide a realm for a long-lost favored servant.
Gods get to operate on a scale that mortals and demigods can at best glimpse and gape at.
I suspect the biggest reason Paizo won't stat out Gods is because once it has stats, it has defined limits.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's a) in orbit around the Sun, b) has sufficient mass to assume a nearly round shape, and c) has "cleared the neighbourhood" around its orbit.
Wait.... What was the question?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technically, I think it's just a divine being that a) hasn't been statted up and won't be and b) grants at least 5 domains.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Empyreal Lords start at CR 21 according to the bestiary 4, for the person who said they start at 26.
It's funny, because I was just reading this post about how gods are interlopers in this universe, outsiders who walled off a playground (aka the planes) from the outer darkness beyond the Great Beyond. So the actual native gods of this universe are actually the Great Old Ones, while the gods mortals worship are literal outsiders. And eventually they'll probably go away, leaving the universe to the real masters of this universe.
Not a mechanics thing, but I thought it was interesting and somewhat related to the question.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
And i could tell you but then i'll have to kill you
Could you give us a hint, and then just slap us around a little?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Anyone can become a God, it's just that nobody knows how it is done. Now, who wants a drink?"
Read poetry and riddles aloud! Here's a great one by the legendary Decemvirate:
"Sieved cash can halve mice old 'ooh-ed', eh?"
What makes a god in Golarion?
what breaks a god
what remakes a god
what awakes a god
these things i may share
these things i may do
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What makes a god in Golarion?what breaks a god
what remakes a god
what awakes a god
these things i may share
these things i may do
Could you say that again? Though this time, with a smile?
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Discipline.
Or cheating like some people.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hello CommuneCast customer,
The voice mail box of the deity you are trying to reach is currently full.
Please press one for more options or try again later.
Thank you, good bye.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Could you say that again? Though this time, with a smile?What makes a god in Golarion?what breaks a god
what remakes a god
what awakes a god
these things i may share
these things i may do
:̡̱̭͎̙ͅ)̶̟̫
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Could you say that again? Though this time, with a smile?What makes a god in Golarion?what breaks a god
what remakes a god
what awakes a god
these things i may share
these things i may do
:̡̱̭͎̙ͅ)̶̟̫
Huh, how about that. The paint on the wall peeled instead of drying.
Empyreal Lords start at CR 21 according to the bestiary 4, for the person who said they start at 26.Not sure where Bestiary 4 says this. They should, as with all demigods, start at CR 26.
I don't think it's in the PRD, but it does say this under Empyreal Lord Traits in my physical copy.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Discipline.
Or cheating like some people.
Hahaha. Thou wroth.
Hello CommuneCast customer,
The voice mail box of the deity you are trying to reach is currently full.
Please press one for more options or try again later.
Thank you, good bye.
;_;
Like tear a planet open, create a demiplane in the planet's core, shove another god in there, and then put the planet back together more or less intact. (Okay, more than one deity was involved with that, but still.) Or create a demigod from nothingness while fiddling around with star arranging. Or create an impossibly vast new layer of a plane of existence to provide a realm for a long-lost favored servant.
Rovagug actually only acts on par (in terms of power) when sealed up in there (his power is constantly leaking out which releases spawn and allows spell granting). The gods themselves even admit that they don't know what Rovagug is. It took most if not all of the gods power to seal him up and that still wasn't enough to make his prison airtight.
What would you define Rovagug as then?
What would you define Rovagug as then?
A deity.
For canon Pathfinder, it is hard to define on purpose. This allows Atheism in a broad sense (belief that deities are just powerful beings rather than divine - can't find the exact term for it at the moment).
Wizards of the Coast did have a game called "Primal Order" that made a simple definition of a deity - any being that could wield and is composed of primal energy. It was a good groundwork foundation to make deities playable PCs as well as make them very powerful in normal RPG games (primal energy acts like magic, yet cuts through non-primal magical defenses like a hot knife through butter).
|
I am hesitant to include an example from books still referring to the 3.5 system, but the Crimson Throne Adventure Path (part the third) had statistics for the Mantis God, at CR 30.
To date, outside of very impressive demon lords, this seems to be the most thorough representation of any godly being.
I may be missing other examples, but that one springs to mind.
Gods are beings beyond comparison.
Long ago, I created a list that breaks down divine beings, ranging from mortal to god.
Empyreal Lords start at CR 21 according to the bestiary 4, for the person who said they start at 26.Not sure where Bestiary 4 says this. They should, as with all demigods, start at CR 26.
In the Universal Monster Ruled for the Empyreal Lord subtype.
|
|
It also mentions that The Mantis God isn't a true god. So its more of a title I guessI am hesitant to include an example from books still referring to the 3.5 system, but the Crimson Throne Adventure Path (part the third) had statistics for the Mantis God, at CR 30.
My mistake, then. I must have glossed over that in my first read-through.
My mistake, then. I must have glossed over that in my first read-through.It also mentions that The Mantis God isn't a true god. So its more of a title I guessI am hesitant to include an example from books still referring to the 3.5 system, but the Crimson Throne Adventure Path (part the third) had statistics for the Mantis God, at CR 30.
All of that has been retconned. He is a full god, no stats.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Since when, if I may?
(i.e. in what source?)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
my guess is Inner Sea Gods (i don't have it, so can't say for sure)
they have his stats in some 3.5 book but they've since decided he's more bad ass then that
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So he went from having stats and being usable to having no stats and being no longer usable. Yeah, great update.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well i don't know for sure, just a hypothesis
Its in Escape from Old Korvosa if you want him, they have him as CR 30, but you know its 3.5 so he's probably more like CR25-28 max, depending how powerful your group is in comparison to what it would be in 3.5
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
my guess is Inner Sea Gods (i don't have it, so can't say for sure)
they have his stats in some 3.5 book but they've since decided he's more bad ass then that
I have inner sea gods, but I'm not sure where he gets that from. Maybe its because he is listed along with other deities? I'm not really sure that is a sufficient proof that he got promoted from demigod category to god tier. I mean, technically demigods(all strongest unique outsiders from all categories) are deities as well even though they aren't full gods and great old ones are listed in same category as outer gods.
Unless I misunderstood something, I think he is listed with other minor gods because he doesn't belong to any particular outsider category. Like, he isn't demon lord or empyreal lord or anything like that, he is his own unique thing.
I could be totally wrong though since that small blurb doesn't mention "isn't true god" thing <_<;
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I misunderstood, i thought he was saying he wasn't even a demigod, my mistake Corvusmask is right:-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
James Jacobs confirmed the retcon. He Who Walks in Blood has a CR 30 stat block (eyeballing it, his baseline numbers look right for CR 30, actually) but has 5 domains like an actual god. So the option was either keep him an actual god and ditch the stat block, or demote him to demigod and keep the stat block. Paizo went with the former.
Basically, the stat block is no longer canon, because it's too weak to actually represent He Who Walks in Blood.
He's also missing a LOT of the bells & whistles he'd have if he was written today as a CR30 demigod, like having mythic power, having a big block of spell-like abilities (he doesn't have any!), and being able to use mythic versions of his SLAs.
You could perhaps use the CR 30 stat block as an avatar, though? if you roll with that sort of thing.
James Jacobs confirmed the retcon. He Who Walks in Blood has a CR 30 stat block (eyeballing it, his baseline numbers look right for CR 30, actually) but has 5 domains like an actual god. So the option was either keep him an actual god and ditch the stat block, or demote him to demigod and keep the stat block. Paizo went with the former.
Basically, the stat block is no longer canon, because it's too weak to actually represent He Who Walks in Blood.
He's also missing a LOT of the bells & whistles he'd have if he was written today as a CR30 demigod, like having mythic power, having a big block of spell-like abilities (he doesn't have any!), and being able to use mythic versions of his SLAs.
You could perhaps use the CR 30 stat block as an avatar, though? if you roll with that sort of thing.
Thank you! Is there a link or page? (I believe you, I just also like original sources! They're tasty!)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you! Is there a link or page? (I believe you, I just also like original sources! They're tasty!)James Jacobs confirmed the retcon. He Who Walks in Blood has a CR 30 stat block (eyeballing it, his baseline numbers look right for CR 30, actually) but has 5 domains like an actual god. So the option was either keep him an actual god and ditch the stat block, or demote him to demigod and keep the stat block. Paizo went with the former.
Basically, the stat block is no longer canon, because it's too weak to actually represent He Who Walks in Blood.
He's also missing a LOT of the bells & whistles he'd have if he was written today as a CR30 demigod, like having mythic power, having a big block of spell-like abilities (he doesn't have any!), and being able to use mythic versions of his SLAs.
You could perhaps use the CR 30 stat block as an avatar, though? if you roll with that sort of thing.
I tend to rely on my memory than try to plumb of the depths of the JJ thread due to its size. Now to see how good my memory is...
Mr. Jacobs notes that he won't update Achaekek's stat block for Mythic because Achaekek is an actual god and shouldn't have a stat block. (Amusing because Mr. Jacobs had an "oh yeah, that's right" moment in the middle of answering questions.)
(Extra amusing ramification from those answers: The gods can't actually order Achaekek around. He Who Walks in Blood possesses free will. The best the gods can really do is make requests, at which point Achaekek evaluates the target and decides if it merits his attention. Achaekek also acts on its own initiative at times. Achaekek might happen to you in the middle of the Test of the Star Stone, should He choose to do so.)
(Bonus amusing ramification: did Caiden Caylien vanquish Achaekek in a drunken brawl as part of his ascension?)
Mr. Jacobs advises that Achaekek is out of reach of mythic characters and has no stat block.
AWESOME! Thank you! :D
Coincidentally, I'm also working on an overview that I can present to my players to give them a feel for what the gods mean in their version of the world. I want to make a general overview more accessible, so that they're not just unfamiliar names that get thrown out now and again (There are no paladins or clerics in the party). Also made a crib sheet for them.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5306136/Reference/Gods%20-%20Inner%20Se a.jpg
** spoiler omitted **...
Neat picture, though there's a few inaccuracies (my apologies if you already knew this) --
The Asmodeus picture is actually the infernal archduke Dispater, one of Asmodeus's oldest followers.
The Desna picture is a lyrakien - the lowest ranking azata.
The Nethys and Norgorber pictures are clerics, rather than the gods themselves. Cool pictures of clerics, but still just clerics.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would totally appreciate the correction but I just wanted some kind of relatable image for them to hang their imagination on and some were hard to find. Besides they're more likely to have run into a worshipper than the god itself which I will fall back on if they press me on the matter:)Coincidentally, I'm also working on an overview that I can present to my players to give them a feel for what the gods mean in their version of the world. I want to make a general overview more accessible, so that they're not just unfamiliar names that get thrown out now and again (There are no paladins or clerics in the party). Also made a crib sheet for them.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5306136/Reference/Gods%20-%20Inner%20Se a.jpg
** spoiler omitted **...
Neat picture, though there's a few inaccuracies (my apologies if you already knew this) --
** spoiler omitted **
Next time you post url, please make it a link because taht url didn't work when I attempted it <_<
Anyhoo, I can't see what pics you used, but here are google searchs I did for images of the gods as they appear in Inner Sea Gods: Norgorber Desna Nethys Asmodeus
Can't find good picture of Aroden in Inner Sea Magic though