most dangerous spells

[Chess Pwn]

So I understand that the scariest spells for a martial target will saves. But I'm curious what those spells actually are. Which spells are the big ones to watch out for? And probably some for each level would be nice too.

[kestral287]

Hold/Dominate Person/Monster tend to be the iconics.

At the late game, Limited Wish -> Geas gets a lot of attention for being, effectively, no-save mind control.

[chaoseffect]

There's also Sleep/Color Spray for low level TPKs. For higher level, Waves of Ecstasy; like good high level spells it screws you briefly whether you fail it or not, but if you do then good luck living long.

[Avoron]

There are some other low level spells that can be effective against martials of all levels who fail their Will saves:
Charm Person
Hideous Laughter
Murderous Command

These are especially dangerous if they are made persistent.

At higher levels, also watch out for greater forbid action; unlike greater command, this allows only a single save.

[DinosaursOnIce]

It doesn't have a save but getting hit by an enervation (level 4)can be pretty bad (it's also a great way to neuter a BBEG who likes to punch things).

Confusion (level 4) can really cause havoc against a group of enemies.

[Chess Pwn]

So most of these are enchantment and mind-affecting spells. Enervation looks mean too. Are there bad will save spells that aren't mind-affecting or enchantment? Because if these are all the bad ones then getting a boost just against those is about as good as a straight will save boost.

[chaoseffect]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Are there bad will save spells that aren't mind-affecting or enchantment? Because if these are all the bad ones then getting a boost just against those is about as good as a straight will save boost.

Yeah most of the "deadliest" will save spells do tend to be mind-affecting, but note that creatures can have some will effects that can mess you up while lacking the mind-affecting tag. A Cap of the Free Thinker is an awesome item for pretty much any martial to have though.

[DinosaursOnIce]

Glitterdust (conjuration) is a will save, you get a save every round but being blinded really sucks. I've seen low level Wizards trivialize a group of "bad will save" enemies with it.

Though, and I might be wrong, a lot of the spells that make your low-will save fighter dangerous to the party are mostly enchantment.

[MechE_]

Euphoric Tranquility. It's an 8th level spell, so it take a bit to come online, but it takes a single creature (character) out of the combat without a save. If you get attacked (enemy strikes you or an ally slaps you to snap you out of it), then you get a will save and if you make it, you're free - for a single round. Real nasty spell - Dispel magic is about the only counter.

[Jayson MF Kip]

As a side note, failing your save for murderous command is bad news for your party.

[tonyz]

Besides what's already mentioned, cause fear and fear (both necromancy school) can be very nasty. They don't kill anyone directly, but they have the potential to split the party and last for many rounds -- if the fighter runs away for five rounds, and then has to spend five rounds getting back in the fight, that's a long time for the rest of the party to stand up against those same enemies!

An appropriately worded suggestion (another enchantment) can easily neutralize a foe -- "drink this glass" which is full of paralyzing stuff, "walk over into the corner" which has a carpet covering a spiked pit, "run away and get help", and many other things.

Yes, enchantments are the vast majority of Very Bad Will-save effects, but just guarding against charms and compulsions isn't enough.

[Veltharis]

My current PFS "main" has routinely made good use of Murderous Command and Hold Person. She's a CHA-based caster (oracle, specifically) presently rocking a +8 modifier and Spell Focus (enchantment), putting her DCs in the "19 and up" range - though she was never really built as an enchantment "specialist" and they could be made higher.

As a few examples:

Murderous Command #1 (mildly dependent on GM fiat):

One of my early games with this character had the party ambushed by three or four howlers. A successful Murderous Command got two of them fighting each other and the GM at the time ruled, due to their nature as somewhat intelligent, but still rather savage and bestial chaotic evil outsiders, that they simply continued fighting until one was dead, by which point the party had cleaned up the others and the one remaining was heavily wounded.

Murderous Command #2:

A much more recent example involved a couple of mooks in the front half of a rather large cavern. While not the biggest threats in the room by a significant margin, they were in the way and a Murderous Command sent one after the other - not that he ever made it, because the quickest route to his partner led right through the threatened spaces of the heaviest melee-type in the party and an enormous earth elemental summoned up by our wizard.

I also got an archer in the back half of the cavern shortly afterwards, but he died before getting a shot off...

Hold Person:

In this one, we were trying to get into a room that two drow archer-types were pelting us hard from behind cover in. They'd used some tricks (Tanglefoot bags? Web spells maybe? Don't remember...) to slow down our advance through the only doorway. Two back to back Hold Persons (with successful SR checks) gave our melee-types (three characters, one of which was a rogue, and two animal companions) the reprieve needed to get into the room and surround the archers, which were then promptly taken apart.

I seem to recall literally spending my standard action to smirk when the drow both failed their saves in the last round. :p

[tonyz]

The paralysis/sleep effects work MUCH better when the person throwing them around has allies who can take advantage of the state, rather than the caster having to CDG the enemies themselves.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Early levels:
Sleep, Color Spray, Command, Murderous Command, Daze, Glitterdust

Mid Levels:
Suggestion, Confusion, Fear, Deep slumber, Hold person, Terrible Remorse, Bestow Curse, Phantasmal Killer

High Levels:
Dominate Person, Magic Jar, Greater Bestow Curse, Insanity,

Most will utterly end you on a failed save...others give multiple chances but if its paired with persistent spell then good luck.

[DinosaursOnIce]

Persistent spell makes everything more fun dangerous!