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Motive is not necessary for conviction.

Grand Lodge

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Nor does guilt require conviction.


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Depends on what you're guilty of, I imagine. Plenty of other folks in the last 10 years have gotten fines and/or imprisonment for leaking classified material, intentionally or not, so there is that.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
Motive is not necessary for conviction.

For some "crimes," yes, for others, no. If you are speeding, it doesn't matter if you didn't know about the speed limit. On the other hand, to be convicted of fraud, you need to have been aware that the information you presented was false (otherwise you were just misinformed, which is not a crime).

For example, if Donald Trump really believed that those who enrolled in Trump University would immediately find HUUUUGE success in their future careers, then what he did wasn't fraud, as he was merely stating his (incorrect, as it turned out) belief. He may still have run afoul of some other laws (e.g., in New York, you cannot advertise a business as a "university" unless it is an accredited university, which Trump University wasn't), but he wasn't willfully defrauding customers. On the other hand, if Trump knew that Trump U students were being ripped off, and if Trump knew that none of his "secrets to success" were being taught at Trump University, then he could be in trouble.

Another example is that if you make a mistake on your tax returns, it isn't automatically criminal. If you didn't intend to provide incorrect information, and the IRS points out your error, and you correct it, you can get away without facing criminal charges. On the other hand, if you willfully put incorrect information on your tax returns, or knowingly refuse to pay even after it is determined you needed to pay more, then you can end up in prison.


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In Canada, it's sorta the difference between statutory and indictable offenses. Statutory offenses are always fines, and include things like trespassing, speeding, etc. If you;re caught, you get the fine. You can dispute it at the court but they don;t need evidence beyond catching you initially. Like you can;t say you are unaware of the speed limit, they are clearly marked regularly. If something was obscuring it and you bring evidence you can argue against it, but it's no guarantee.

But indictable offenses require Mens Rea, or intent, UNLESS they are crimes of Negligence. Negligence instead has to prove that you failed your responsibilities. Like for example, if you leave a gun around and a kid gets it and hurts themselves, you are under negligence, because you went to a training course on gun safety and should know better. This is your fault. You can't say well I didn't intend for them to do that. That is what you were trained for. You cannot excuse it on that.

So, it boils down to this. Did our little email screw up get informed and trained beforehand on the matter? I almost am sure she did but if so she should be charged under negligence.

But then, our laws are not your laws.


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Anzyr wrote:
Tels wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
cuatroespada wrote:
not really what i was getting at, but i don't really care enough to explain.

I think he's referring to Hilary Clinton's email debacle.

The FBI director listed a number of ways she broke the law, then said he couldn't prove her intent and no one would prosecute her.
Ahhh, I see. :o

Lack of intent has never stopped someone from being prosecuted for breaking the law in the past.

"I didn't intend to speed, officer, I was just extremely careless. Can I get a Hillary Pass?"

Are you aware of how ignorant this post is of how the law actually works? Even if it was intended to be sarcastic, it comes across as dangerously uninformed. Lack of intent in fact stops people from being prosecuted literally every day, in virtually every jurisdiction. Which is working as intended. And that's a very good thing.

Exaggerated statement, to be certain, but not ignorant. For the common man, intent, or a lack thereof, doesn't often have a huge outcome on a case (andeven then, it is often only one aspect) . Sure, there are many cases where intent can be important, but it's not typically applicable to the average person. A lack of intent can drop charges from murder to manslaughter, or something like that, but most laws broken bycommon people don't need intent for conviction.

The problem with the Hillary thing is that she knowingly lied while sworn underoath, and knowingly exposed classified information unsecured channels. But it's okay, because she didn't intend to break the law, she's just grossly incompetent. Turns out, some of the laws she brokerage still considered broken even if didn't mean to, and were just "exceedingly careless" instead.


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Tels wrote:
The problem with the Hillary thing is that she knowingly lied while sworn underoath

isn't this the reason her husband was almost impeached?


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Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.


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Nope, been feeling nostalgic and playing EQ alot lately.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
Nope, been feeling nostalgic and playing EQ alot lately.

I had thought about playing EQ since it's free to play now, and I never got to play it when it was out originally. Time to play is scarce, however. :|


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Ashiel wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:
I am going to point out that that isn't just any ordinary dinosaur, it is clearly at the very least Dinosaur(Wizard 3), considering the visible effects of the Blur spell.

Frighteningly, Tyrannosaur have enough HD that they could totally hide really well despite their size and Dexterity with a blur active.

In fact, it'd probably be a lot like that one dinosaur from Jurassic World. :P

Can you imagine a T-Rex with one of those Path of War disciplines that focus on single big hits? That would be terrifying.


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You should go back to visiting the General/Rules Discussions forums, Ash. There is no more ciretose to stalk you... You can even discuss buying partially charged wands now. XD


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Lemmy wrote:
You should go back to visiting the General/Rules Discussions forums, Ash. There is no more ciretose to stalk you... You can even discuss buying partially charged wands now. XD

I don't have any intent to return to rule discussions because from what I've seen, there is little to no respect for the word of the rules, and people are more interested in arguing over what they think the rules should say. Not that everyone there is like this, but too many for me to waste my time. Suffice to say, the general respect for real conversation was greater at WotC and GitP (at least when I frequented those sites).

General is cool though. :)


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Klara Meison wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Klara Meison wrote:
I am going to point out that that isn't just any ordinary dinosaur, it is clearly at the very least Dinosaur(Wizard 3), considering the visible effects of the Blur spell.

Frighteningly, Tyrannosaur have enough HD that they could totally hide really well despite their size and Dexterity with a blur active.

In fact, it'd probably be a lot like that one dinosaur from Jurassic World. :P

Can you imagine a T-Rex with one of those Path of War disciplines that focus on single big hits? That would be terrifying.

Generally speaking, PoW material can be pretty powerful on lots of monsters. Giants spring to mind.


Ashiel wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Nope, been feeling nostalgic and playing EQ alot lately.
I had thought about playing EQ since it's free to play now, and I never got to play it when it was out originally. Time to play is scarce, however. :|

Yeah, they were sold to daybreak games from SOE, and they've made some changes. The UI and basic things you;d take for granted from a modern MMO is not there in EQ, it's still pretty old school. You have to manage a spell book, and mem the spells you want to use.

They did, however, greatly increase the amount of coin you get from trash, and added armor sets to each mob's loot table to help out with leveling, and the amount required to level has been reduced.

When I played back in `99, it took a long time to get from 1-40, but I just leveled from 1-38 in 2 days (8 hours) worth of play.

So, nostalgia wise it's awesome, but isn't mind numbingly frustrating anymore.


1-38 in two days, eh? What's level cap? O.o

Grand Lodge

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I've largely fallen out of respect for the word of the rules. Not exactly sure why. Maybe I've been brainwashed by the forums, maybe it's the constant errata.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
I've largely fallen out of respect for the word of the rules. Not exactly sure why. Maybe I've been brainwashed by the forums, maybe it's the constant errata.

It's probably the constant (and terribly designed) errata...

rant:
Overall, Paizo is a great company, but the way they handle errata is lazy, dishonest, disrespectful and unethical IMHO. It's what made me stop buying all Pathfinder-related material, other than dice sets and Pathfinder Tales novels.

And I whole-heartedly advise others to do the same... Paizo's policy on errata design and release makes them undeserving of my support (and other people's support as well, IMHO, but I can't decide what they do with their money).


Kryzbyn wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Nope, been feeling nostalgic and playing EQ alot lately.
I had thought about playing EQ since it's free to play now, and I never got to play it when it was out originally. Time to play is scarce, however. :|

Yeah, they were sold to daybreak games from SOE, and they've made some changes. The UI and basic things you;d take for granted from a modern MMO is not there in EQ, it's still pretty old school. You have to manage a spell book, and mem the spells you want to use.

They did, however, greatly increase the amount of coin you get from trash, and added armor sets to each mob's loot table to help out with leveling, and the amount required to level has been reduced.

When I played back in `99, it took a long time to get from 1-40, but I just leveled from 1-38 in 2 days (8 hours) worth of play.

So, nostalgia wise it's awesome, but isn't mind numbingly frustrating anymore.

this is exciting. i never really wanted to pay for it before so i only ever played a bit on my friend's comp. might have to give it a go now.

Grand Lodge

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Lemmy wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I mostly removed the question from my life since I get everything digital for free as VC. But I no longer purchase first printings anymore.

Ashiel wrote:
1-38 in two days, eh? What's level cap? O.o

105.


What the hell is EQ?

Grand Lodge

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Everquest?


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A warning to all:
They haven't updated the graphics in EQ since 2001 or so. It's not as bad as playing minecraft, but it takes some getting used to.
Benefit to this, is any modern computer can crush it, requirements wise.
The only lag I experience is server lag, and that isn't very often.


Yes, Everquest.

Even if you're not a MMO fan or player, look up the lore for this game.
It's amazing.

Grand Lodge

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I'm too busy playing Pathfinder. The graphics are even worse, but I'm committed at this point.


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I feel you. I tried PFO for all of 20 minutes. I don't regret backing it, but it was certinly not for me.

Grand Lodge

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No, I mean table top. :P


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Kryzbyn wrote:
I feel you. I tried PFO for all of 20 minutes. I don't regret backing it, but it was certinly not for me.

Does Pathfinder Online even still exist? The site is up but hasn't been updated in 2 months.


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I haven't even heard anything about PFO since they announced the Kickstarter. :P


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i knew what you meant, TOZ.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
No, I mean table top. :P

The graphics of the mind's eye are the best graphics :)


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Yeah, clearly you need to update your vidja-card. :P

Joking aside, as long as there's some sort of GUI, I'm happy. I don't really care about graphics (grew up playing NES from the age of 2), so barring some extreme examples (such as some really minimalist games) I don't mind.

In fact, I still regularly play lots of old games from the PSX-era and older, because they tend to be better than most of the new games IMHO. I think a large part of that is their RPGs tend to be richer since games were cheaper to develop and it's a lot easier to make a rich and full world when you're not dealing with things like voice acting.


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Speaking of which, for a very long time I kept playing "modern" RPGs, both Western and Eastern, and kept feeling like something was missing. They just didn't feel as good as the classics, but I wasn't sure if it was nostalgia goggles or something else (maybe I had just become desensitized or no longer enjoyed the genre as much as I once did, or somesuch).

However, my playstation died on me when I was trying to play FF9 years ago, and I never made it even a teeny tiny bit into the game and never really got to make any memories from it. So, thanks to emulators, I was able to play my copy of FF9 again, and so I decided to sit down and play it.

It was with this game, free of nostalgia goggles, that I realized within about 10-20 minutes something was so much different compared to modern titles. It felt "better" for some reason. Richer, more alive, more interesting. I wondered why. Eventually, it hit me like a charging behemoth.

No voice acting. Because of no need to hire voice actors, towns and streets were teeming with random individuals of all different shapes, sizes, and species. Children ran through the streets, the music was lively, and you could talk to freakin' everybody no matter how minor. It set the scene very, very well. Voice acting is more or less pointless in these types of games because your mind will automatically give the characters whatever voice you think they should have.

Contrast this to Dragon Age Origins (which I liked overall, aside from the awful UI) where in the beginning of the game you reach a town supposedly overloaded with refugees, everything is too full up, etc. But you walk around and it feels like the town is very empty.

Combined with the increased cost to create "next-gen" games and the costs to hire voice actors and the like, we're getting progressively shallower games because making games that are both really rich and also really stunning is much more costly in time, money, and resources than it once was.


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Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.

Think I'm probably the only one then heh.


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>Combined with the increased cost to create "next-gen" games and the costs to hire voice actors and the like, we're getting progressively shallower games because making games that are both really rich and also really stunning is much more costly in time, money, and resources than it once was.

Check out Witcher 3. You can do that, you just have to work hard enough your balls drop off.


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Klara Meison wrote:

>Combined with the increased cost to create "next-gen" games and the costs to hire voice actors and the like, we're getting progressively shallower games because making games that are both really rich and also really stunning is much more costly in time, money, and resources than it once was.

Check out Witcher 3. You can do that, you just have to work hard enough your balls drop off.

playing this now. so far so good.


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I remember Legend of Dragoon on PS1. EPIC game.


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Icehawk wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.
Think I'm probably the only one then heh.

I <3 the benevolent Utopia that is Ermor. :3


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Kryzbyn wrote:
I remember Legend of Dragoon on PS1. EPIC game.

I still haven't played this. :o


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Not a D&D Troll. :)


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Nice! Very Ghibli


Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.

Sorry, too busy playing: FTL, Nox, Jade Empire, LoZ: Wind Waker, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, and Civilization IV & V

Oh, and PF. Well, sort-of playing. Getting close to playing.

Sssssooooooonnnnn...


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Ashiel wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.
Think I'm probably the only one then heh.
I <3 the benevolent Utopia that is Ermor. :3

What a difficult burden you must share with the world.


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Icehawk wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.
Think I'm probably the only one then heh.
I <3 the benevolent Utopia that is Ermor. :3
What a difficult burden you must share with the world.

Yes. It is truly a burden of time. He sacrifices his death gems so the world can be at peace.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.

Sorry, too busy playing: FTL, Nox, Jade Empire, LoZ: Wind Waker, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, and Civilization IV & V

Oh, and PF. Well, sort-of playing. Getting close to playing.

Sssssooooooonnnnn...

Well, multiplayer can be play by email at whatever pace you like. We've been playing the same game for almost 2 weeks now.


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Aratrok wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Hey, do any of you folks play Dominions 4? We could always use more players. If you don't have it, it's on sale on Gamers Gate for 9 bucks for another 5 days.
Think I'm probably the only one then heh.
I <3 the benevolent Utopia that is Ermor. :3
What a difficult burden you must share with the world.
Yes. It is truly a burden of time. He sacrifices his death gems so the world can be at peace.

Y'know, I was intentionally not casting that spell this game 'cause I was tryin' to be nice and diplomatic, but it's darn tempting with all these legionnaires and priests on my doorsteps. >_>


Eh just build up for Utterdark and then cream everyone.


Icehawk wrote:
Eh just build up for Utterdark and then cream everyone.

Spells like Utterdark and Burden of Time are great if everyone already hates you and your gem income is the best, but if you have any allies they're a sure fire way to turn that into a dogpile.


Aratrok wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Eh just build up for Utterdark and then cream everyone.
Spells like Utterdark and Burden of Time are great if everyone already hates you and your gem income is the best, but if you have any allies they're a sure fire way to turn that into a dogpile.

Well there can only be one winner. Unless you are playing the actual team one, in which case I would try and pick team members who can survive Ermors... Predilections one way or another.

And well, if Utterdark goes up there's not much they can do about you anyways unless they're one of the races with 100 Darkvision. Cus nobody can hit anything without it.

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