In the next couple of months, me and some friends will be starting up Rise of the Runelords. Between five of us, we've got what I think is a pretty solid party: void wizard (myself, having not played a caster in a fair while), ax/shield unbreakable fighter taking the Deathless line of feats, investigator to handle everything a rogue would be good for, a bolt ace, and a cleric of Sarenrae going for the dervish fighting style (the player's kind of new and isn't really aware of how stupid powerful clerics become; he kind of just thinks they're healers). Seems like a solid five-man group to me.
Those are only the "mainstay" players, the ones who show up every week. The ones who I -know- have experience with/excitement for the game. The ones who spend time reading the rules and learning what their characters are capable of. The game is something of a church youth group event (I'm the only player above the age of 20), and is being DM'd by the youth minister (and he's damn good).
Enter: the conflict.
Counting the number of people who have shown interest in playing, any given session could involve up to thirteen players.
Thirteen. F***ing thirteen. Possibly more.
This group recently ran (read: blundered through) Shackled City, where we averaged about 8 people per session. It was chaos. Characters dropping in and out with no justifiable reason between weeks. Inter-party violence leading to numerous deaths. Children lacking attention spans (while fighting Drakthar in his wolf form, and with the party having firmly established that he was a vampire, one of the players was informed it was his turn; he looked up from his phone and asked, "are we still fighting that werewolf?"). It ended in an exasperating-yet-liberating near-TPK in the Kopru Ruins, after which we decided it was time for a fresh start. And since then, we've picked up three more players (brothers, the youngest of which is, I believe, 12), all of which are about as AD/HD chaotic neutral as you can imagine (I've played Call of Cthulhu with them, and their antics have very nearly ruined all of Lovecraft for me).
So this is my dilemma. As a sponsor in the youth group, I want the kids to come out and have a good time. As an invested gamer, I want to fashion a whip from leather cords and drive them out of the temple... so to speak. I doubt RotR can handle a fluctuating party of this size. I doubt any AP can. Assuming exclusion isn't an option, does anyone have any pointers on how to run/play a game with so huge a group? My fear is that in attempting to accommodate everyone, the game will devolve into a chaotic mess again and in the end, no one will enjoy themselves.
HALP
Apologies for the frequent parentheses and semicolons.
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have 2 groups, the 'regulars always there' in the AP and the 'crew of the day' who go through oneshots, like PFS scenarios.
My gut reaction is: You need more GMs so that players can feel important in their own story, rather than just background in a huge group (where the stars are the "core party").
Void wizard, halp thyself. You already know what you want, and I'm pretty sure you know what you need to do. You just don't want to upset people.
Without getting into the minutiae of how to make that happen, I suggest you work towards a weekly group with the consistant players, and then have another bi-weekly, free-for-all, free-form where you push ahead regardless of who shows up, or how many.
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have 2 groups, the 'regulars always there' in the AP and the 'crew of the day' who go through oneshots, like PFS scenarios.
This is the best way to handle this. You can even run it as a PFS event and give people GM and player credit for it.
PFS scenarios are designed for you don't know who may show up from session to session, and have special rules that make playing work under those conditions.
Have your core group play the AP, and have the others play scenarios. This will have more individual time for the players of both groups so there is less instances of bored players, and will make for less work to try to fit changing players into a coherent story.
You just need to have someone step up to GM the other group.
Listen to the Alexandrian, he's got a solution for you.
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1223/roleplaying-games/opening-your-gam e-table
I've run groups that big before. It's challenging. Either have a co GM or get used to the fact that there will be side conversations going constantly and you just have to ignore them. Another key is that the GM cannot sit down - s/he has to be above everyone else in a speaker role (think classroom teacher) in order to get people's attention when you need it.
Some 1e exploratory adventures may work well for a premade setting, such as keep on the borderlands (and I believe there is a pathfinder conversion for this).
Last time I ran a group this big, I started with a combat session at "the end" of the previous campaign. Had them fight a bunch of mooks and then a big bad evil guy. After they won, they went back to town with the hapless villagers who were kidnapped and the town had a big celebration for them.
This gets the game going right away, gives them the opportunity to immediately play and learn about their characters and character mechanics, and allows them to role play with one another in an engaging and active setting. Throw in some environmental challenges (this area is difficult terrain, that area has archers on a cliff that you have to climb to get to, etc...), and don't forget to elaborate ony the sights, smells, and sounds of the battle. really engage in the storytelling aspect of the game to drive it home. Trust me, they'll have a blast. Especially if they http a lot (so go with low AC, low Saves, low damage bad guys), and give extra bonuses for good ideas and tactics.
Once they're back in town, then you can start the typical beginning for a campaign: where someone approaches them for a adventure, but now they're already comfortable with their own characters and their friend's, and they should be more comfortable with the role play of the non combat scenarios.
When I did this last, the mooks were snake-men that had human torsos and a snake tail for legs, and the BBEG was the same thing just gigantic (torso alone was 30' tall). I let my players do really creative things, like climb the scales to get to the head to attack the eyes, or jump from ledges onto its back to attack, and one guy even had someone else throw him up (a dwarf).
Remeber, don't say no, just determine difficulty. And if it makes the scenario cool, let them do it (especially if you're introducing new players to the game).
Reminder: I'm not the DM.
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You need two tables. I'd recommend letting one table go through one adventure path and one going through another. Have the regular group get Rise of the Runelords weekly, and have the irregulars come in bi-weekly with an AP that is amenable to regularly shifting members. I'd recommend Skull & Shackles for that.
Unfortunately, my only sure day off is Monday (which is when the group gets together), I have no experience DMing, and I (nor any of us) have actually played PFS modules before. We've only done Shackled City and old 3.5 APs (and some homebrews) using Pathfinder rules. And by we, I mean me and the DM; I'm the only veteran player.
WOW...13.
The largest group I EVER DM'd was 11. That was insane at times. Can't imagine 2 more than that...and with people who seem much more chaotic than anyone I gamed with at the table of 11.
I don't know what to say except...good luck.
13 people around a table at church??? Better bring some Easter candy...
Anyways, you seriously need to have multiple tables. If this was a basketball team, all 13 wouldn't be playing at once.
You need 2 or 3 tables.
I think there are some easy 1-shot modules on line. Find some super easy ones and let one of the newbies run it. Just pick a random newbie's name from a hat.
I've done 11 for a single session. That was bad enough.
Yikes. My vote is you don't try to run all of it at once. See if you can't get people to split into two groups, or have two GMs running a series of one-shots for the 6 people that show up first.
It seems to me that this event is a primarily a church social event and secondarily a pathfinder game. I imagine that trying to change that will not be a good idea and will run counter to the purpose behind the gatherings.
Basically, this probably isn't going to be ideal from a gaming perspective, a few ideas above could help, but would require some additional GM resources.
My advice though is to focus on your primary purpose and try and let the less than ideal gaming not bother you.