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Roll stats on 3d6, sorting them in any order. Once you hit level 2, you're allowed to increase your stats to a 15-point buy (assuming they're lower than that already). You may not decrease any stat during this time.
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Take a deck of playing cards. Get yourself the following cards:
{4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9} for an average of 13 on a stat;
{4, 4, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9} for an average of 14 on a stat.
Shuffle into six pairs of two cards each; those are your stats.
This method creates some degree of randomness, but also guarantees that people won't have wildly different quality of ability scores. If you have a nice high score somewhere you're also going to have a meh score somewhere else.
Recently mentioned in another thread: rolling five of the six stats (using any method you liked) and then setting the 6th stat to be the value of whatever's left using a 15 (or whatever) point buy system.
There are a ton of different rolling variants, but you have to figure out what you're aiming for. If you like the randomness of rolling, but don't like the power disparity it may cause (or more likely, the hurt feelings of other players concerned with such things), then you can try the rolling assignment.
Set all stats at 8, and then give each player the same amount of rolls of the d6. 30 seems pretty good. So you'll start like this:
- 8
- 8
- 8
- 8
- 8
- 8
If the player rolls a 1, then you add one to the first number, so now it looks like this:
- 9
- 8
- 8
- 8
- 8
- 8
A 2 would add to the second number, and so on. Repeat this process until you assigned 30 rolls. If a stat hits 18, then any further rolls on that stat no longer count, you simple re-roll for that point. Here are some stat arrays generated with this method (using 30 rolls):
12, 15, 11, 13, 14, 13 (+7 overall) (21 points)
13, 15, 17, 8, 15, 10 (+7 overall) (28 points)
16, 12, 10, 15, 12, 13 (+8 overall) (24 points)
12, 11, 15, 12, 11, 18 (+8 overall) (30 points)
If my math is accurate, the worst overall modifier would be +6, and the best would be +9. The lowest point-buy equivalent would be 18, and the highest would be 45.
The disparity in point-buy equivalent looks bad, but its nearly impossible to actually get either end of the spectrum. Also, the value of point-buy is being able to choose what stats you want. When randomly assigned like this, the point-buy equivalent is not as important.
If you want to reduce the top end a bit, you can start with all 10s and roll 18 times.
17, 14, 12, 11, 11, 13 (+7 overall) (25 points)
10, 16, 10, 14, 16, 12 (+9 overall) (27 points)
14, 13, 11, 14, 13, 13 (+7 overall) (20 points)
14, 14, 12, 12, 14, 12 (+9 overall) (21 points)
Again, assuming math is accurate, worst modifier would be +6, and the best would be +9. The lowest point-buy equivalent would be 18, and the highest would be 36.
Does anyone know of any viable third options that are different than these two or more than likely take them into account?
Lots. But I think you're asking the wrong question.
For example:
* Roll 4d6 for the number of points you can use to buy
* Use 8 points to buy three of your stats, roll the remaining three
* Use point buy to generate one character, roll a second, then average the stats to get what you actually play
* (I also suggested the roll-five and use the rest for the 6th method on another thread.)
But rather than asking how this can be done, you should be asking whether it should be done. As is, this is a solution in search of a problem -- is the purpose to reduce power disparity between players (which the first suggestion does not do, but the fourth does), or is it to add useless complexity to the system (which all of them do), or is it to prevent players from having fun by forcing them to play a character they don't want to play (which all of them do)?
Take a deck of playing cards. Get yourself the following cards:
{4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9} for an average of 13 on a stat;
{4, 4, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9} for an average of 14 on a stat.
Shuffle into six pairs of two cards each; those are your stats.
This method creates some degree of randomness, but also guarantees that people won't have wildly different quality of ability scores. If you have a nice high score somewhere you're also going to have a meh score somewhere else.
That is the first random stat generation method I could see me using.
I have suggested it before: Dump charisma. Remove it entirely from the game, make roleplaying a non-mechanism process. Set Intelligence or Wisdom as base stat for the Cha skills, let bards and sorcerers cast off Int or Wis, clerics channel off Wisdom, and do the few other adjustments it would take.
The decrease the point buy by one sixth, so 8/12/17/21 point buy becomes the new method.
Watch everyone dump Int instead.
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Recently mentioned in another thread: rolling five of the six stats (using any method you liked) and then setting the 6th stat to be the value of whatever's left using a 15 (or whatever) point buy system.
Sadly, this method of compensation doesn't work if you have rolled, like, all 1s. Point-buy systems don't allow that, which makes it impossible to quantify.
I really like the cart shuffling method! I'll definitely use that at my next game.
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Most groups I have run seem to avoid rolling for three reason -
1 - There is always that one player that wants to avoid rolling in front of witnesses and seems to magically roll all fives r sixes when no one is paying attention.
2 - There are always one or two players with dismal luck at dice rolling and only roll high numbers when it is to their advantage to roll low, or vice versa.
3 - Almost all players are adamant with the idea of everyone starting with the sense of fairness that is perceived with point buy, stat arrays, or templates.
I started developing a system combining point buy and stat array in that whatever the point buy is, the stat array is 10-20 percent higher in point value, yet the array is spent in a moderate fashion to avoid extremely high or low stats. Each player chooses either to use point buy or the array, fully knowing how many points they could use or what the array is.
Example - 20 point buy, or an array of 15, 15, 14, 14, 11, 10 (equivalent to 25 points).
SAD classes tend to go point buy, while those playing MAD classes (like monks) go with the stat array.
Recently mentioned in another thread: rolling five of the six stats (using any method you liked) and then setting the 6th stat to be the value of whatever's left using a 15 (or whatever) point buy system.Sadly, this method of compensation doesn't work if you have rolled, like, all 1s. Point-buy systems don't allow that
Sure they do, as long as you're willing to extrapolate a bit!
3 = -164 = -12
5 = -9
6 = -6
7 = -4
8 = -2
9 = -1
10 = 0
11 = 1
12 = 2
13 = 3
14 = 5
15 = 7
16 = 10
17 = 13
18 = 17
19 = 21
20 = 26
21 = 31
22 = 37
23 = 43
24 = 50
25 = 57
26 = 65
27 = 73
28 = 82
29 = 91
30 = 101
So, you have stats of STR 3, DEX 3, CON 3, WIS 3, INT 3. But that's OK, because you're going to be a Sorcerer.
After five 3s, you have 95 points remaining (15 + 5 * 16), so you can have a Charisma of 29. Boost it to 31 with your racial bonuses. Most enemies will need a natural 20 to pass your save DCs. As long as no-one ever attacks you, you'll be fine!
So, you have stats of STR 3, DEX 3, CON 3, WIS 3, INT 3. But that's OK, because you're going to be a Sorcerer.
After five 3s, you have 95 points remaining (15 + 5 * 16), so you can have a Charisma of 29. Boost it to 31 with your racial bonuses. Most enemies will need a natural 20 to pass your save DCs. As long as no-one ever attacks you, you'll be fine!
Better make it an oracle with Cha to AC and divine protection. Add toughness and favored class bonus to hitpoints. you have a pc that can handle his job quite well and doesn't die from a sneezing butterfly.
OTOH, it's quite possible to get past 31 points with your first five rolls meaning your final stat can't get the total back down to 15.
Well, that's your good luck! You get to play a character with higher Points Buy than the rest of the group! However, your last stat will be zero and you will be in a permanent coma.
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OTOH, it's quite possible to get past 31 points with your first five rolls meaning your final stat can't get the total back down to 15.Well, that's your good luck! You get to play a character with higher Points Buy than the rest of the group! However, your last stat will be zero and you will be in a permanent coma.
Well, have the party cart you around on a floating disk. When you eventually hit fourth level from your XP sponging, then you'll put your level four stat increase into your zero stat CHA, wake up and, and be a disgusting combat monster.
By the way, flagged this to be moved to homebrew.
Pick a point buy total then roll. Adjust only one way to hit the point buy total. This means you have some randomness, some stability of outcome, and likely don't get the extreme finely tuned dump stat combined with super high scores that can be chosen from pure point buy.
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The book suggest 2d6+6 as the default rolling option. To reduce the spread you can up the minimum, so the dice have less impact
10+2d4 or 3d4+6 or
2d6+6(special) --->In this case 1's and 2's both count as 2's
Of couse that means no stat is worse that a 12 which ups the power curve.
or
Give them 15 point buy, and them let them roll 2d3 that they can add any where they want on a 1 for 1 basis, but still cap it as 18 before racial modifiers.
If they happen to roll a 6 they still wont be much better than a 20 point buy. If they get a 2 then they still at least have a 15 point buy with a little extra.
Another option is to have them roll 3 stats at 2d6+6, and use 10 point buy on the other 3 stats. That should give them at least two good/decent stats.
My first instinct is as follows:
1) Add +2 to two random ability scores (cannot be the same)
2) Add -2 to one random ability score.
3) 15 point buy.
Does anyone know of any viable third options that are different than these two or more than likely take them into account?
The reason I'm asking is I was thinking a combo of the two might allow players to integrate more of their back story into this process. It would put some randomness into the equation but also allow them the stability of a point buy.
Any thoughts on any fun variants?
What I do is have everyone roll one set of stats (4d6, drop the lowest) as does the GM. Then the group decides which set of stats to use. All players then use that stat set for their characters, ordering them as they see fit.
That way, you still get the fun of dice rolling, with 5 or 6 rollers, you are bound to get at least one decent set of stats. Then to keep everything balanced, everyone uses the same stats.
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I eventually decided that there was no reason when doing this to make everyone use the same set. Often it doesn't matter, but if someone wants the 1 18 instead of the 2 16s, go for it. Everyone is still happy.Does anyone know of any viable third options that are different than these two or more than likely take them into account?
The reason I'm asking is I was thinking a combo of the two might allow players to integrate more of their back story into this process. It would put some randomness into the equation but also allow them the stability of a point buy.
Any thoughts on any fun variants?
What I do is have everyone roll one set of stats (4d6, drop the lowest) as does the GM. Then the group decides which set of stats to use. All players then use that stat set for their characters, ordering them as they see fit.
That way, you still get the fun of dice rolling, with 5 or 6 rollers, you are bound to get at least one decent set of stats. Then to keep everything balanced, everyone uses the same stats.
Yeah, if there are many randomly generated sets, let people choose individually. They'll choose the best one for their character. If you make everyone use the same one then the casters will push for whatever has the single highest stat, while everyone else will push for whatever has the highest 2-4. Most likely everyone will use the same 1 or 2 sets, but no-one ends up feeling like they would have preferred something else (tyranny of the majority and all that).