Why would the barbarian fall over ? You haven't mentioned anything about any sort of trip hazard along the charge path. The *ONLY* possible way I can think of that *MIGHT* cause the barbarian to fall over is if he attempted to TRIP the illusion (without a trip weapon) and blew his roll by enough to trip himself. I'm not even certain that would happen, as I wouldn't know how to assign a CMD to the illusion of a bard.
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Just because he charges the illusion does not mean he rugby-tackles it. He just uses the momentum of his run for his swing.
There is neither a RAW nor a "common sense" reason for him to fall over.
only if it's funny and doesn't put the barbarian in any actual harm.
...Is this thread for real?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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No, it's pretty unreasonable for a player to expect that the GM will declare that their character spontaneously falls over for the equivalent of missing with an attack. It's not unreasonable for the idea to occur to you, but it's unreasonable to think anyone would ever see it coming or not be shocked/confused.
I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for a person to fall over after they charge through something they didn't expect.
My common sense tells me that the reason why charging characters don't fall over is because the charging character relies on their target's inertia to stop the charging character.
That said, I do acknolwedge nothing in the core rules supports my common sense. I'm just saying it's not an entirely unreasonable thing for a given player / GM to expect, especially for those without an encyclopedic knowledge of the core rules.
Sounds like more of a Bull Rush than a charge attack to me. Charging converts momentum into your attack. Someone side-stepping or missing doesn't change that; you just swing and wiff.
Bull Rushing is much more likely to try to move into someone and the weight not being there could totally put you off balance. Enough to fall? I don't think so, unless you weren't planning on moving with the target. Maybe then. But no rules to back that up.
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No, it's pretty unreasonable for a player to expect that the GM will declare that their character spontaneously falls over for the equivalent of missing with an attack.I was under the impression that missing with an attack doesn't necessarily mean that the enemy dodges your attack, since AC includes armor, shield, deflection, and natural armor bonus.
Not necessarily. But it also doesn't necessarily mean that they DIDN'T dodge. If you made it a rule - you'd have to make it so that anytime someone on a charge missed their target's touch AC they fell over. That'd be dumb.
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Not really. I've done my share of martial arts etc It might put you off balance for a split second, (and it does get you a -2 to AC) but it certainly wouldn't make you fall over.Were you swinging 8lb Greatswords as part of your martial arts?
Even if you were, do you think a blanket claim such as "All charging actions have no risk of falling over." would be realistic?
I have swung one - though not as part of my martial arts training. That only encompassed a one-handed broadsword, and during my stint in the SCA - rattan sword stand-ins. Nonetheless - it's safe to say that anyone who is trained would have no significant chance of tripping due to a missed blow. (Far less so than someone doing the plethora of other Pathfinder things which have no chance of such.) A charge melee attack is not a football tackle.
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How the hell would it be realistic? People don't spontaneously fall over at the end of a sprint.
Certainly you make charges in Kendo all the time, which is about as close as you can get to a swordfighting simulation in real life. You never, ever, ever fall over. If you did you would be a free kill every time you misjudged a charge, which would make them a really stupid idea. In my 10+ years I have never seen even a total rookie fall over from a misjudged charge or swing of any kind. You are much more likely to lose the weapon from poor balance than fall over yourself.
It's also stupid from a game balance perspective because suddenly noone will ever charge, but instead walk gingerly towards your opponent and attack. It's punishing martial players because you have this idea it's 'realistic'. Making poor rules judgements because of an overly sensitive sense of 'realism' is up there with GMPCs for bad DMing 101.
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We should get Jason Buhlman to try charging thin air and base a new ruling on that.
If you're the GM make the rules. I would work it that the Barb doesn't fall over but they do pass through the illusion by a couple of squares.
How the hell would it be realistic? People don't spontaneously fall over at the end of a sprint.
Certainly you make charges in Kendo all the time, which is about as close as you can get to a swordfighting simulation in real life. You never, ever, ever fall over. If you did you would be a free kill every time you misjudged a charge, which would make them a really stupid idea. In my 10+ years I have never seen even a total rookie fall over from a misjudged charge or swing of any kind. You are much more likely to lose the weapon from poor balance than fall over yourself.
It's also stupid from a game balance perspective because suddenly noone will ever charge, but instead walk gingerly towards your opponent and attack. It's punishing martial players because you have this idea it's 'realistic'. Making poor rules judgements because of an overly sensitive sense of 'realism' is up there with GMPCs for bad DMing 101.
Out of curiosity, in your 10+ years, how many times has one of those rookies swung his weapon THROUGH an opponent that was in front of him and clearly lined up for the hit?
Just sayin'.
Teach. Guide. Train. There is no need to ridicule.
Out of curiosity, in your 10+ years, how many times has one of those rookies swung his weapon THROUGH an opponent that was in front of him and clearly lined up for the hit?
Plenty of times, actually. A fit, expert competitor can dodge from neutral faster than a rookie in downswing can react.
Not being able to react is completely different than swinging THROUGH an object.
They're completely the same. The opponent expects resistance on the downswing and encounters none.
No. Your brain can see and understand a target that moves out of the way faster than the body can react, but the miss is still expected and compensated for, at least to some degree.
When the object is still there but completely insubstantial, I would have to say that is another beast all together.