Pharasman faithful, and even more their clerics, are supposed to show respect to the dead.
But what of their belongings?
Should they pillage a downed foe's treasure, as the rest of adventurers?
What would the faith accept? What would be frowned upon?
I'm playing a Pharasman priest. So far, she has refused to get money from the selling of a magical horn that was found in a coffin, as she couldn't prevent her team mates to take it. Of course, that means less money to spend later on equipment, but it seems to me that is the right thing to do.
What would be the guidelines?
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Guideline: In Pathfinder, if you're not willing to take stuff from the enemies you kill, everything becomes almost impossibly difficult for everyone.
Taking something from a grave is different from taking something from a downed foe. The items were deliberately placed in the grave to honor the dead. As a result, taking that item away dishonors the buried dead. There's also the issue of breaking open the grave in the first place, which is a major taboo. The dead should remain buried.
That's not the case with a downed foe. I'd think as long as a Pharasmin still respects the corpse and does not make the corpse look undignified, it's fine to loot it. You could go the extra mile and try to give slain foes a burial or do something as respectful as cover the corpse with a fine shroud.
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On a related note, I have a character who comes from a tribe that reveres ancestors. She strongly frowns upon grave robbing as her tribe tends to bury a few useful items with their fallen kin so can continue to serve the tribe in the afterlife. However, it's also customary for the deceased to leave their best possessions to their kin. This means that while the character opposes grave robbing, she's fine with looting tombs or taking equipment from fallen foes. The kin of entombed dead are usually way long gone and most of the valuable tombs come from arrogant materialistic kings. As a result, she feels like their possessions serve no use being buried.
She's not a Pharasmin, but this might be a good example of a character that respects the dead, but is fine with taking stuff from the slain.
Several years ago, I played a cleric of a similar goddess in a homebrew. I had to answer these questions too. Here's how it worked out:
1) A downed foe is dead. The body has no use for those items, but the living do. The soul is what matters. So proper rites needed to be performed, but the body could be looted to better serve the living.
2) A grave is the resting place of a dead body. Yet there is a link of sorts between body and soul. So disturbing a dead body may cause a ghost or other undead to rise, which is obviously a travesty. So graves are not to be disturbed except in the most dire of circumstances, and only then with rites performed to appease the spirit of the dead.
3) You also serve a goddess of fate. What is YOUR fate? Unlikely you know what it is, perhaps a broad brushstroke of the entire painting at most. So is it your fate to take those items and use them to accomplish your goals? Who knows but your goddess? Could also lead to an interesting situation where you one day have heresy charges leveled at you, making for interesting role-playing.
A grave is the resting place of a dead body. Yet there is a link of sorts between body and soul. So disturbing a dead body may cause a ghost or other undead to rise, which is obviously a travesty. So graves are not to be disturbed except in the most dire of circumstances, and only then with rites performed to appease the spirit of the dead.
Since adventuring often involves poking about in old tombs, that's a fairly inconvenient philosophy to hold. You could justify saying, "It's a good idea to check dead bodies in case they're actually undead creatures who need to be destroyed." That would be less likely to annoy the rest of the group.
It depends on the campaign, Matthew. We hit exactly zero old tombs in that campaign. We weren't a group out seeking to make our fortune; we were together trying to kill the lich that just so inconveniently happened to rule one of the most powerful nations on the continent. We explored underground locations, found our share of dead bodies, made our share of dead bodies, but never hit a single tomb the whole way. Unless you count where our actual characters died, in which case, we hit two :)
If your GM expects you to go grave robbing to get their wealth, I see that as a problem with the GM. That's like playing an urban adventure and the only way you can gain XP is to go around murdering villagers.
Tomb raiding is a common adventuring trope. You defeat the mummy, you get to help yourself to the mummy's grave goods. It's tradition.
So far, I have set my priest on getting her share of money from deceased foes, but unwilling to get money or items from things found in closed tombs/coffins
And for major foes, she tries to give them a decent burial. For minor foes (even the lowliest goblins) she prays for their souls after ending their lives
In pathfinder you have to loot everything. From corpses to tombs to recently inhabited castles you come across while trying to visit the castle's owner. Always rip stuff from the walls and pocket the silverware because you will get no other reward. The last part is what one AP taught us.
You don't have to do all that, but if you try to stop your allies from helping themselves to unattended items you may find yourself... unpopular.
In pathfinder you have to loot everything. From corpses to tombs to recently inhabited castles you come across while trying to visit the castle's owner. Always rip stuff from the walls and pocket the silverware because you will get no other reward. The last part is what one AP taught us.
Which AP?
Carrion Crown, possibly.
A few things to keep in mind:
- A cleric of Pharasma's respect for the dead should encompass the faith of the dead. Iomedae's faithful, for example, refuse to be buried in their armor and are given only a symbolic 'sword' rather than an actual sword, because weapons and armor should be passed along to someone else who will continue using them.
- Respect for the dead means you shouldn't be stripping them naked, but that doesn't mean you can't redress them in clean clothes and give them a proper funeral. It might take more time, but allows you to keep that suit of +1 mithral chain the villain had been wearing.
- Burning the dead is one of the few ways to make sure they don't return as undead, especially when there isn't a consecrated church/graveyard nearby to inter them in. There is no sense in burning magical items or other valuables, so you might as well keep those.
Burning the dead is one of the few ways to make sure they don't return as undead, especially when there isn't a consecrated church/graveyard nearby to inter them in.[/list]
I don't think that's true. It stops them returning as zombies, but what's to stop them coming back as far more dangerous incorporeal undead?
Burning the dead is one of the few ways to make sure they don't return as undead, especially when there isn't a consecrated church/graveyard nearby to inter them in.[/list]I don't think that's true. It stops them returning as zombies, but what's to stop them coming back as far more dangerous incorporeal undead?
A combination of casting sanctify corpse and burning the body should have a good chance of succeeding because it can't come back when the body is burned (the spell prevents it). And by burning it in a funeral rite its resting place can't be disturbed later because there is none.
But there is no definitive, 100%, way to prevent becoming an undead.
Burning the dead is one of the few ways to make sure they don't return as undead, especially when there isn't a consecrated church/graveyard nearby to inter them in.[/list]I don't think that's true. It stops them returning as zombies, but what's to stop them coming back as far more dangerous incorporeal undead?A combination of casting sanctify corpse and burning the body should have a good chance of succeeding because it can't come back when the body is burned (the spell prevents it). And by burning it in a funeral rite its resting place can't be disturbed later because there is none.
But there is no definitive, 100%, way to prevent becoming an undead.
Also, generally the concern is that they will be raised by a necromancer or something similar. As long as you conduct a proper funeral and there's no body around to raise up, you've covered enough bases for 99.99% of undead. What causes problems is when necromancers find unsanctified graves/graveyards and start raising zombies/skeletons/etc. Also, ditching a corpse in the middle of nowhere has an infinitely higher probability of resulting in a vengeful undead than if it's given a proper funeral.