Rogues: Underhanded talent and full round attack


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I got a question about the Underhanded talent that i can't seem to find an answer to on the messageboards.

I am uncertain on how the cost of this talent works, if I have the ability to draw a light conceal weapon as a free action, and I can make a full attack. Do I then use one of my times per day for each attack, or is the cost meant to be for the surprise round with no regards to the number of attacks I can make?

For those wondering I'm planing on using the Sandals of quick reaction and
Always Threatening: "You are fast on the draw. As a move action, you can draw a light, concealed weapon for which you have Weapon Focus. If you have the Quick Draw feat, drawing this weapon is a free action."


It is always a good idea to include the relevant rule text in a rules question.

PRD wrote:

Underhanded (Ex)

Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn’t know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).

For me it seems likely that it was meant to only be used during the surprise round where you normally only have one attack and I think it is limited to that one attack, even if you somehow gained access to a full attack during a surprise round. If you were to rule that it would affect any attacks during the surprise round I'd say you'd pay per attack, but I will grant you that it is a bit unclear.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for that Lifat i totally forgot to insert the Underhanded


I was wondering this, myself.

A one level dip in Diviner or Sohei to always act in surprise round.

"Sandals of Quick Reaction" means that during the surprise round, they get both Standard and Move actions, which can be used as a full-attack.

The "Quick Draw" feat, with the "Always threatening" trait allow for free action draws of hidden light weapons.

The rogue talent "Snap Shot" guarantees a initiative of 20 on his guaranteed surprise rounds, as long as he spends his initiative to do a ranged attack action. This is where I'm slightly confused: An "Attack Action" is a standard action, not a full-attack, right?

"Underhanded" thrown in at last means that, if all this works out, the halfling Knife-master attacks before anyone else, throwing daggers from each hand at the enemies, doing max Sneak Attack damage to all that hit.

At level 20, this rogue (that's picked up the "Accomplished Sneak Attacker" feat and some Greater Sniper Goggles) would pop 100 sneak attack damage with each dagger.

Such a build could even grab up another two levels in Diviner, a full ten in Arcane Trickster, and not lose any SA, but could cast Level 7 Wizard spells (with a 15 CL with the Magical Knack trait). Though, he'd drop to a pathetic +11 total Base Attack (and couldn't get "Greater Two-Weapon Fighting" in any way that I can see, so he'd lose another attack).

But all that's useless....if this combo doesn't work.


Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath wrote:
This item works like a standard wrist sheath, but releasing an item from it is an swift action. Preparing the sheath for this use requires cranking the sheath’s tiny gears and springs into place (a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity).

Costs 5gp. Get two of them and put on a white hoodie.


That'd be two swift actions in one turn, though, right?

And that'd only give you 2 daggers, if you can use one swift to grab both somehow. Different from 6 attacks from two weapon fighting and high enough base attack, one from haste, one from rapid shot, etc.


It was an assassins creed joke.

But this item allows you to draw and attack with a concealed weapon in the surprise round.


Mechanical Pear wrote:

That'd be two swift actions in one turn, though, right?

And that'd only give you 2 daggers, if you can use one swift to grab both somehow. Different from 6 attacks from two weapon fighting and high enough base attack, one from haste, one from rapid shot, etc.

All you need is the TWF feat to draw both in one swift

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