Can it be that Nightmares do not have DR to fire?

[Chalice]

"Fire spurts from its hair and nostrils."
Is it correct or is this an oversight?

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

Considering there is no DR/fire, I'm inclined to say yes.

[Scythia]

It is kind of odd that they don't have Fire Resistance, or Fire Immunity.

I hadn't noticed that before.

[wraithstrike]

Someone brought this up in another post. I guess they are immune to their own fire like some snakes are not harmed by their own venom.

Ok, I think the real reason is that whoever made them never thought of it, but if asked in a game I would use my first explanation for flavor reasons. :)

[Doomed Hero]

I would just house rule it. They really should be resistant or immune to fire.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Continual flame already establishes a precedent for fire that doesn't burn. On the other hand, the Nightmare's fire doesn't illuminate either (it doesn't say it does). So... it has nothing in common with fire. Maybe it's just orange-red hair and nobody can tell?

[Snowleopard]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Continual flame already establishes a precedent for fire that doesn't burn. On the other hand, the Nightmare's fire doesn't illuminate either (it doesn't say it does). So... it has nothing in common with fire. Maybe it's just orange-red hair and nobody can tell?

The original description of nightmares explained that people standing close (5feet) to the nightmares could be blinded by smoke if they failed a saving throw. This was attributed to their fiery existence.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Sure, but the actual stat block of the Nightmare I'm looking at has darkvision, fire damage on the hooves, and a 1/round free action exhale a cloud of smoke. Nothing says it generates light, nothing except the hooves indicate visible fire, and it doesn't have any of the usual defenses for being on fire (retributive fire damage). Now that I look at all that I'm pretty sure it was the inspiration (or vice versa) for the Ghost Rider horse.

[RJGrady]

It seems like a poor choice for a mount in Hell if it doesn't have fire resistance.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Continual flame already establishes a precedent for fire that doesn't burn. On the other hand, the Nightmare's fire doesn't illuminate either (it doesn't say it does). So... it has nothing in common with fire. Maybe it's just orange-red hair and nobody can tell?

I kind of feel like "fire emits light" is one of those things they don't have to specifically mention. Fire emits light.

If the test we're applying to abilities is "do they specifically mention producing sensory effects? If not, then they don't" then almost nothing in the game makes sound or produces smells.

Hell, a blue dragon's lightning breath? Just colored lines. No sound, no smell, no burst of light. Impossible to see in the dark!

That seems silly to me.

[wraithstrike]

If fire is going to emit light then we need a rule saying how much light it emits, and "ask your GM" is not the right answer.

How much light do ____ fire elementals emit is one that comes up in games.

PS: I agree that it is silly for fire to not emit light, but it doesn't.

PS2 : If you light a fire in the dark in my games the monsters will see you. Don't try it. :)

What this means is that by the rules fire needs something official just for the sake of consistency, but until then I will have to come with something.

Bob are you saying that if someone lights a fire, but not a torch in natural darkness, that nobody will see the fire since fires don't mention emitting light in the rulebook? I am asking how you would handle it at the table, just to be clear.

[Bob Bob Bob]

The larger point I'm trying to make is that the nightmare's fluff and crunch do not meet. The immediate point is that, while described as flaming (well, fire spurting out of it), the only part of it that actually reflects that is the hooves. So Ghost Rider horse, leaving a trail of flaming hoofprints (except they don't break hardness). But the Nightmare, by itself, doesn't have anything "flaming" about it until it uses its hooves.

I'm not saying we ignore common sense in favor of nonsense (except for Paranoia). Fire emits light (and heat). I'm saying that it would be really helpful if designers could specify in some way what's meant to be taken seriously and what's someone's purple prose. In theory that's what the stat block is for but the "fire" of the Nightmare's description is just blowing smoke (literally) and the actual magic fire they do have is described as "sparks".

They could have given it an aura. It could cause fire damage to riders (the mane). They could have given it a touch attack with its tail. Lots of things could have been done to make it a "flaming magical horse". Right now though it's a "magical horse with flaming hooves". While similar enough for some people it's dissimilar enough for me that I would only have it illuminate while it's moving. Maybe leave a flaming trail depending on the surface. Because that's what the stat block actually reflects.

[Chalice]

My group is playing "Way of the Wicked" (Awesome game btw!) and we have managed to procure Nightmares as mounts. I wonder if the rider should be required to have some sort of protection fire also?