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Hey everyone. I am sorry if this idea has been brewed up in the past and dissected but I haven't personally seen something on point.
So I love the fighter. I love it as is, but this is not to say that it couldn't be improved on. I have noticed the trend Paizo has been on in giving classes a flexible point based mechanic (Ki, Panache, Grit, Inspiration, etc). I feel that Bravery could follow in suit. Here is my proposition:
Bravery: An intangible, but very real, quality of those that train in arms in a world filled with mystical creatures and arcane magics beyond the ability of the standard person's comprehension. Bravery allows one to face odds that baffle the mind, or to stand up to one with powers you do not understand. Bravery separates those that fight from fighters.
At level 2, a Fighter gains a pool of Bravery points equal to one half her fighter level plus her constitution modifier (1/2 fighter + con). So long as a fighter has 1 bravery point remaining in her bravery pool she may:
1) Use her constitution modifier in place of her wisdom modifier for will saves.
2) Be considered one size category larger for the purposes of CMD.
By spending a point from her Bravery pool a fighter may:
1) Add a +2 morale bonus to any saving throw.
2) Heal a number of hit points equal to your fighter level.
3) Be treated as one size category larger for the purposes of one CMB.
4) Ignore their armor check penalty from armor or shields for any one skill roll.
5) Ignore the non-proficiency penalty for a weapon they are not proficient with for 1 round.
6) Re-roll any will save versus an effect that would cause fear, at a +2 bonus.
By spending 2 points from their bravery pool a fighter may:
1) Treat a successful attack as a critical threat. (still requires confirmation - but can't use bravery for it)
2) Gain (or improve existing) damage reduction x/-- equal to their constitution modifier for a number of minutes equal to their con modifier.
A fighter's bravery pool refreshes each day upon 8 hours of rest, though there a few ways in which to restore points that have been spent without rest, though a fighter may never have more than their max number of Bravery points. A fighter regains a Bravery point when:
1) A fighter defeats a creature in a fight during which the fighter expended at least 2 bravery points.
2) A fighter successfully saves against a fear effect while the fighter has no Bravery points remaining in her pool
Each of these uses of Bravery points is to be activated as either a swift action or an immediate action within its context.
What do you all think? Is this the kind of mechanic that could help to re-energize the fighter and help them live up to expectations?
I like it.
Needs a few tweeks.
Good start.
Thanks. Let me know what you think needs tweaking.
I wanted Bravery to do things that were unique.
1) Size for CMD/CMB is only a small mechanical benefit, BUT effects fun things like maximum sized targets and attackers.
2) Healing: I wanted to think of a way that some of the healing issues can be addressed. I figured a second wind-like mechanic could be cool. It may require rewording....I don't really think that it should serve to remove conditions like bleed...thatd be potentially really broken. Perhaps it should be considered natural healing and not magical.
3) Saves: I feel like being able to shake off some stuff is important. It is called bravery....and I like that Con --> will adds that bonus we all feel like should exist without making fighter a "good" will class. I also think the mechanic of losing one's morale (in a sense) [losing con to will when 0 points] is a good way to say your day has just taken it all out of you.
4) Check Penalty and Non Proficiency Penalty: I was thinking here of like Isildur taking up Narsil after it was broken. Something to address the old "fighter picks up whatever is nearby and by force of will uses it to effect". Same thought went into check penalty thing.
these are the kinds of things that were on my mind. Lemme know if anyone out there has feedback. This may be the kind of thing I look to implement.
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I would pare it down to 3 options at 2nd level, adding maybe 2 options per iteration, whether assigned or menu style.
suggested first three: Boost Save, Second Wind, Armor Stunt.
also, not a fan of your "save vs fear" recovery trigger. something more frequent would be nice. i know you may be trying to keep the "vs fear" in the mechanic, in which case consider having as a passive ability "treats fear effects as one step less severe while bravery = 1+" instead?
you could also mine this thread for ideas...
The duration on ignoring nonproficiency seems too short. I'd make it last a minute.
Actual healing seems off for a fighter. Gaining some amount of temporary hit points would be more on theme.
I'd also explore using bravery to replace Cha rolls with Con. It takes a lot of guts to stand in front of a crowd and try to rally them, after all.
How about using bravery to add combat maneuvers to regular attacks? This could be the bravery regen mechanic - succeed against an evenly matched or more powerful opponent, and gain 2 points back.
Hmm. Ok. So something more like this then?
Bravery: same as above flavor text (subject to change)
At level 2 the fighter gains a pool of bravery points equal to 1/2 her fighter level plus her constitution mod. So long as a fighter has 1 point remaining in her pool she may:
1) Use her Con modifier in place of her Wisdom modifier for will saves.
2) Be considered one size category larger for the purposes of CMD.
Beginning at 2nd Level a fighter may expend one bravery point for the following:
1) Add a +2 morale bonus on any one saving throw. Doing so is an immediate action.
2) Gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 1/2 the fighter's level plus her constitution modifier. These temporary hitpoints last 1 minute per point of the fighter's constitution modifier. Using a bravery point in this manner may be done as either a swift action or an immediate action.
3) Ignore armor/shield check penalty for 1 round per point of constitution. This includes for skill checks to swim, climb, tumble, etc, but also applies to the attack penalty taken by wearing armor or using a shield the fighter is not proficient with. Using a point in this manner is a swift action.
At 6th level the fighter may expend 1 bravery point for the following:
1) Be treated as 1 size category larger for the purposes of CMB for 1 minute. This requires a swift action.
2) Ignore any non-proficiency penalty taken for using any manufactured weapon for 1 minute. This ability requires a swift action and does not work if the weapon in question is an improvised weapon.
At 10th level the fighter may expend 2 bravery points for the following:
1) Treat a successful attack as a critical threat. This is a free action. The critical hit must still be confirmed.
2) Gain damage reduction (x/-) equal to the fighter's constitution modifier for a number of minutes equal to that modifier. If the fighter already has damage reduction (from any source, including temporary bonuses from spells or affects) that damage reduction is, instead, improved by this number. Should the initial source of damage reduction end before this ability the remaining duration will work as if no initial source existed.
Bravery is a renewable resource. Certain situations may work to bolster the fighter and restore to her the bravery she has expended so far. The fighter regains a bravery point when the following occur, though a fighter may never have more bravery points than she would have upon rest.
1) The fighter defeats an equally matched opponent (DM discretion)
2) A fighter succeeds in resisting a feat effect (from spells, combat maneuvers, etc) without use of a bravery point.
3) ???
What do you guys think of this remix?
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much more focused. may I further recommend:
:
A 2nd level fighter gains a pool of bravery points equal to half his level plus his Constitution modifier, which replenishes daily after a full rest. So long as he retains at least 1 point he may add his fighter level to all saving throws against fear effects. Further, he gains the following abilities, each of which may be activated as an immediate action by expending 1 point of bravery:
Brave Stunt: The fighter may ignore his armor check penalty for 1 round.
Brave Stand: The fighter may roll twice for a saving throw and take the better result.
Brave Recovery: The fighter gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his fighter level for 1 minute.
In addition, whenever the fighter defeats a worthy opponent (CR no lower than fighter level), or whenever he , he immediately recovers 1 point of bravery.
...
now, what is ?
I ask what gameplay behavior do you want to reinforce? Should the second trigger be subject to DM discretion (a "brave act")? What does Bravery mean to you in terms of the fighter prevailing in the game in some way?
Is there precedent for having more passive (so long as one point remains...) abilities beyond those initially granted?
I feel like what bravery does is not necessarily make the fighter hit harder than front line fighters, but instead it simply allows the fighter to continue to fight where others would falter.
This means resisting spells, true, but it also means continuing to fight effectively after the fighter's weapon is broken or after he is bloodied.
I want bravery to allow a means to mechanically manifest a fighter's resolve.....which to be fair could be the name of the ability.
I hope that helps.
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You could look to Samurai's Resolve and start your designing from there.
I think an important question to consider is "active" or "passive" when designing pool abilities. Like, what is the frequency of use for the ability? Will it be used right away in a fight or saved for a tight spot? Under what conditions ought the ability be turned "off"? etc.
In my current version of Bravery (10.5) for my home game (which is not a "pool" ability), I grant the printed bonus to all saving throws, and it triggers for 1 minute upon one of the fighter's allies being reduced to less than 0 HP. I too see the ability as a way to "fight on" in a desperate situation, and my trigger choice inventivizes enemies to reckon with the fighter first before dealing with his allies, lest he becomes more impervious to magic/effects etc. Essentially, the meta-level of "drawing aggro" is intentional.
hope that helps.
Perhaps you could call this Heroism instead, because that kind of feels like what you're going for here.
Suggested mechanics you may or may not want to implement as well, for higher levels.:
- As long as you have at least 2 Bravery points, you may reroll any failed ongoing will or fortitude save requiring effect as a standard action on your next round with a -2 a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier.
- As long as you have at least 2 Bravery points, any effect that would otherwise provide a partial negative result on a successful will or fortitude save is instead entirely negated.
At level, you may spend 3 bravery points at level 15 to:
- Grant the fighter fast healing equal to his fighter level for a number of rounds equal to his CON modifier as a swift action.
- Convert any AC the fighter possess into DR/One type of damage (Must choose between bludgeoning, slashing or piercing) for a number of rounds equal to half your constitution modifier rounded down
Seems like Bravery is getting the best of both types of Class resources (1/2 lvl + important mod - like the Monk, who can ONLY regain Ki after resting) and (pool equals important mod - like Gunslinger, who can regain Grit after performing specific tasks). Ki is more plentiful, but Grit is more valuble. I'm personally a fan of the latter. Here's my take:
Bravery (Ex): At second level, a Fighter gains a pool of Bravery. Bravery is an abstract combination of a Fighter's blind determination, honed proficiency, and steeled mind. A Fighter starts the day with a number of Bravery points equal to his Constitution modifier (minimum 1). His Bravery pool can usually not go over this number. A Fighter regains 1 Bravery Point when he successfully saves against a fear-based spell or effect used by a perceived enemy.
While a Fighter has at least 1 Bravery Point, he gains a morale bonus on saves vs. Fear effects. This bonus progresses like the Standard Fighter's Bravery Class ability.
By spending 1 Bravery point, a Fighter can:
- Ignore Armor check penalties on class skills for 1 minute
- Add his Con modifier to any 1 Str- or Dex-based Skill check.
- Be treated as 1 size category higher for the purposes of CMB/CMD for 1 round
At 7th level, while a Fighter has at least 1 Bravery Point, he adds 1 to the bonus granted by Weapon Focus. If he doesn’t have Weapon Focus, he must choose one specific weapon to gain this bonus in. He is considered to have the Weapon Focus feat for this weapon for the purposes of qualifying for other feats, even if he has 0 points in his Bravery pool.
By spending 1 Bravery Point, a 7th level and higher Fighter can:
- Reroll a failed save that caused an ongoing effect. The reroll has a Morale bonus equal to the Fighter’s standard Bravery bonus vs. Fear. If the ongoing effect is fear-based, don’t stack the bonuses; instead, add 1 to the existing bonus.
- Subtract 1 from the penalty his attack roll incurs with his second iterative attack for 1 round.
- Ignore 5’ of non-magical difficult terrain for every 5 Fighter levels he’s obtained (this stacks with feats like Nimble Moves and Acrobatic Steps) for 1 round.
At 12th level, while a Fighter has at least 1 Bravery Point, he adds 2 to the bonus granted by Weapon Specialization. If he doesn’t have Weapon Specialization, he must apply this bonus to one weapon he has the Weapon Focus feat for. He is considered to have the Weapon Specialization feat for this weapon for the purposes of qualifying for feats, even if he has 0 Points in his Bravery pool.
By spending 1 Bravery Point, a 12th level and higher Fighter can:
- Be treated as 2 size categories larger for the purposes of CMB/CMD for 1 round
- As an Immediate action, ignore all effects from the Disabled and Dying conditions until the end of your next turn.
- Subtract 1 from the penalty his attack roll incurs with his second iterative attack, and 2 from the penalty his attack roll incurs from his third iterative attack for 1 round.
At 17th level, while a Fighter has at least 1 Bravery Point, he adds 5 to the amount of DR ignored by Penetrating Strike. He is considered to have the Penetrating Strike feat for the purposes of qualifying for other feats, even if he has 0 points in his Bravery pool.
By spending 1 Bravery Point, a 17th level and higher Fighter can:
- Gain the Pounce ability for 1 round
- Subtract 1 from the penalty his attack roll incurs with his second iterative attack, 2 from the penalty his attack roll incurs from his third iterative attack, and 3 from the penalty his attack roll incurs from his fourth iterative attack for 1 round.
- Add 1 to the bonus damage received from Power Attack or Deadly Aim. Add 1 for every time the feat’s bonus damage increases in damage.
Interesting
I do like the scaled passive bonuses (huge fan of passive bonuses).
Is there any concern that essentially giving a fighter free Weapon Focus / Weapon Spec / Penetrating Blow would be broken? I mean, obviously, this would only be the case if essentially giving the fighter 3 more combat feats would be broken.
I guess my only piece of "criticism" (to be fair its a bit biased simply because of my own understanding of bravery) would be that I feel bravery shouldn't add that extra combat skill i general. I didn't want to step on the toes of Weapon Training.
I suppose a few numbers would help:
-- Weapon Training: +4 hit/dmg (cmb/cmd)
-- Relevant Feats: +2 attk ------ +4 dmg
-- Bravery: +1 attk -------- +2 dmg (*+2/+4* if bravery would also apply to greater feats)
So with a BAB 20: thats +27 to hit before strength, weapon, and any other feats. And +10 damage before anything else.
In this particular case that would be passive...so long as you are using one of 24 weapons (at least half a dozen of which are some of the best and most common weapons used).
This is not to comment on the fact that this additional +7 would apply to all CMB/CMD rolls that involve said weapons.
Funnily enough that would give a natural weapon fighter a base of +10 unarmed damage and +7 attack. Correct me if I'm wrong but that more than makes up for the difference between 1D4 unarmed and 2D10 monk unarmed damage lol. (obviously flurry would matter here).
Cuup, thanks for posting. I really am a fan of this type of mechanic, and I appreciate your contribution. I like your scaling passives more than my own and frankly if the consensus is that these additional bonuses wouldn't make the fighter too good (heh....) then I think its a great break down.
Thanks for your thoughts, glad you like it. The way I see it: getting Weapon Focus for free at level 7 isn't going to hurt anyone, but if a Fighter were going for a build that was especially feat heavy (a common story for many fighters, even with their bonus feats), not needing to worry about Weapon Focus/Specialization (nearly always a feat tax) would help loosen things up. But I wouldn't want Fighters who DID go for Weapon Focus at level 1 to lose out, so getting an additional +1 to hit on only what you've taken Weapon Focus for at level 7 also wouldn't hurt anyone, but still reward you for taking the feat earlier. And also consider that most Fighters aren't going to have a Bravery pool bigger than 6, and some maybe only 2 or 1, based on their roll in combat.
It still seems pretty contained to me, though looking at your numbers, I see what you mean about it being a bit too much, especially for a Fighter with a particularly high Con.
much more focused. may I further recommend:
:
** spoiler omitted **
...I ask what gameplay behavior do you want to reinforce? Should the second trigger be subject to DM discretion (a "brave act")? What does Bravery mean to you in terms of the fighter prevailing in the game in some way?
I kind of like this one because its short (I'm predictable like that). However, I think ignoring ACP for a round isn't worth spending the point. Part of the fighter's schtick is lowering ACP anyays, so the benefit to this one is likely to be small, especially if the fighter has invested in nice equipment. Maybe if the benefit lasted for a minute...
The other thought I had is to make the pool size equal to the number of the traditional Bravery bonus, get rid of the recharge mechanic, and increase the potency what a point does. But keep +1/2 level to fear saves when points remain