A few skills to be more precise.
For a home game in a post apocalyptic setting, I'm considering removing BAB, and making weapon group skills like Guns, Melee, Unarmed, and Energy (yes, for the astute readers, the setting is heavily inspired by Fallout). Classes that would normally be full BAB will get all four as class skills, 3/4 BAB classes can choose two to be class skills, and 1/2 BAB can pick one. No class in the setting gets less than Int+4 skills per level, and stats below 10 are not possible at character creation.
My goal is to create a system where combat ability is inherently specialized, but ultimately optional.
What do you forsee as the benefits or problems with this idea? Would it be better if skill points per level were increased?
Basically turns the 3/4 BAB classes into full BAB classes (Magus, Inquisitor, etc).
How is the Monk affected? (3/4 BAB but counts as full BAB when flurrying)
Full BAB classes should at the very least automatically rank all the combat skills, then get 4+ to spend on other things, since their full BAB is no longer unique.
I could see it working in a no-magic game, maybe.
So I'm assuming instead of the normal BAB + Ability mod + enhancement for attack you will be just using the skill score (ranks + ability modifier + weapon enhancement?) and skill ranks will be used in place of BAB for requirements? How will this work with class skills? That would essentially mean a level 1 character has an effective +3 more to hit then normal and then you have skill focus for an additional +6 to hit overall as compared to a normal level 1.
And then there is the fact that 1/2 BAB classes effectively get full BAB for one type of weapon, which if you specialize at all as Pathfinder encourages, is more than enough. So now your Wizard gets full BAB with his chosen weapon in addition to awesome 9th level casting... and the full BAB classes get to spend skill points to be back exactly where they were before the change.
I like the concept of tying combat to skills, but as proposed it just seems like a massive power increase for 1/2 BAB characters and a nerf for full BAB guys.
Basically turns the 3/4 BAB classes into full BAB classes (Magus, Inquisitor, etc).
How is the Monk affected? (3/4 BAB but counts as full BAB when flurrying)
Full BAB classes should at the very least automatically rank all the combat skills, then get 4+ to spend on other things, since their full BAB is no longer unique.
I could see it working in a no-magic game, maybe.
There is no monk, or variable BAB mechanic in any of the classes in the setting.
Yes, the 3/4 classes could have the equivalent of full BAB in as many combat style as they want to divert skill points into, but then they won't have many actual skill ranks.
It is a no magic setting, but it does have one class that offers "6lv casting" with a psionics theme. Very limited and thematically defined.
So I'm assuming instead of the normal BAB + Ability mod + enhancement for attack you will be just using the skill score (ranks + ability modifier + weapon enhancement?) and skill ranks will be used in place of BAB for requirements? How will this work with class skills? That would essentially mean a level 1 character has an effective +3 more to hit then normal and then you have skill focus for an additional +6 to hit overall as compared to a normal level 1.
And then there is the fact that 1/2 BAB classes effectively get full BAB for one type of weapon, which if you specialize at all as Pathfinder encourages, is more than enough. So now your Wizard gets full BAB with his chosen weapon in addition to awesome 9th level casting... and the full BAB classes get to spend skill points to be back exactly where they were before the change.
I like the concept of tying combat to skills, but as proposed it just seems like a massive power increase for 1/2 BAB characters and a nerf for full BAB guys.
Yes, an example would be to shoot an enemy, 1d20 + Guns + Dex compared to the target's defense (AC). If they have it as a class skill, then +3 of course.
There aren't wizards or 9th level casting to consider. There also won't be magic items with an enhancement bonus. There will be the ability to upgrade/modify gear, but not to the extremes of the current system.
The only 1/2 BAB class is basically a 6lv caster, a focused psychic. Kinetics which focus on damage and motion effects, Dominants that focus on control and illusions, and Vitalists that manipulate life energy and enhance forms.
(Advice)
Thanks, that was well considered, and I do like Kirthfinder's approach to proficiency levels. I intentionally went for broad categories, although I could see expanding to six (where 3/4 BAB classes could choose three, 1/2 would still be limited to one). I could go Guns, Melee, Unarmed, Energy, Explosives, and Primitive (ranged weapons other than guns).
By the by, the Energy category isn't for "magical" energy types, it's for energy based weaponry, like lasers. :P
Perhaps former full BaB classes can recieve various unique bonuses and ways to exploit their skills with weapons.
A few suggestions:
Fighter - Half his level to all weapon skills, 4 + Int points to spend, may possibly use a Called Shot mechanic where you can write out a list of differing actions which give a bonus to the enemies AC or a penalty to the fighter's attack when he goes for it. Perhaps you could allow the fighter to force the enemy to provoke an attack of opportunity when he normally wouldn't as well.
Barbarian - While raging, the barbarian can declare his intent to sacrifice a rank from his current relevant weapon skill to gain a point of damage for that turn. He may only sacrifice as many points as his levels in the Barbarian class.
Paladin - Not sure. Maybe he can add his Charisma modifier to a single weapon skill?
Ranger - I've no idea.
Go a step further and add saves as skills. Then give out two "pools" of points, one for weapons/saves training, and one for normal skills.
That is an interesting idea, I might have to consider it.
Perhaps former full BaB classes can recieve various unique bonuses and ways to exploit their skills with weapons.
A few suggestions:
Fighter - Half his level to all weapon skills, 4 + Int points to spend, may possibly use a Called Shot mechanic where you can write out a list of differing actions which give a bonus to the enemies AC or a penalty to the fighter's attack when he goes for it. Perhaps you could allow the fighter to force the enemy to provoke an attack of opportunity when he normally wouldn't as well.
Barbarian - While raging, the barbarian can declare his intent to sacrifice a rank from his current relevant weapon skill to gain a point of damage for that turn. He may only sacrifice as many points as his levels in the Barbarian class.
Paladin - Not sure. Maybe he can add his Charisma modifier to a single weapon skill?
Ranger - I've no idea.
Good thinking, although I'm not using the regular classes. I have three classes:
Mercenary, the full BAB class, they get weapon training, an improved armour training that actually makes the armour better (instead of just easier to wear), and access to mercenary only weapon style specialist feats.Scavenger, the 3/4 BAB class that gets versatile perks to select from (like rogue talents, but -I think- better), the perks build up in a tree like fashion to advanced then one master perk. High damage potential (with a sneak attack like ability), but less durable than the Merc, they're better as hit and run skirmishers, or ranged.
Gifted, the 1/2 BAB class, essentially bard level psychic "casting" along one of three highly focused lines.
Go a step further and add saves as skills. Then give out two "pools" of points, one for weapons/saves training, and one for normal skills.That is an interesting idea, I might have to consider it.Giving separate pools for in combat and out of combat skills would make it easy to make sure the most skilled classes won't also be the best/most versatile in combat.
Also, as for armor, I may be going a little overboard here, but you may want to make armor also a skill.
Hear me out: Without enhancements, armor can not keep up with BAB in the d20 system, since it's a static value (once you got the heaviest armor) while BAB is going to scale. Hell, in PF even WITH enhancements, armor just can not keep up.
Making it a skill means it will scale along with attack.
Taking a page from 5e, you could have 3 kind of armor skills (light, medium, heavy). Assuming you wear the correct category of armor, you get AC from your skill points at some fraction.
Light armor only gives AC half of your skill points invested, but you can use your full dex bonus.
Medium armor gives you 3/4th, but you can only use DEX up to +2 (or maybe half of your dex).
Heavy armor gives full, but you get no DEX bonus.
Simply having 3 armor types and then maybe 3 tiers of armor, with better armors/power armors giving a boost to your armor skill.
Say, the 3 tiers would be Junk (leather hides,car parts) /Manufactured (well sewn leather hides, fitted car parts)/High quality (flexible armor materials, an actual full plate), each giving +2/4/6 to your armor skill.
EDIT: for that matter, I'd probably split weapons up into light-medium-heavy-ranged-heavy ranged, any more than that and it starts to get too many for my taste.
Armour provides DR in this setting. Each class gets a scaling (by level) defense value to which they'll add their Dex (as limited by armour), and any dodge or other AC type bonuses.
I appreciate the comments, ideas, and suggestions so far, keep them coming.
Honestly, I give equal chances that this setting, with all the custom ideas and changes, will be either really fun or a hot mess. It's something I've been working on here and there for almost a year, and I'm to the point now where the only way I'll know which it will be is by trying it out.
I can always revise on an as-needed basis.
I had similar ideas, it remove AC (armors become damage reduction), and add deffensive skills (parry, dodge, etc)...
Saves as Skills...
Class bonuses to some skills...
A bit of customization of class skills...
AND add skill points by levels... (with a dividing by pools/types to some degrees)
(spellcaster classes like Wizard might have School skills instead of/in addition of weapon skills)