Seeking advice on four one-trick ponies


Advice


I'm going to run an encounter where the players play a five-headed half-chromatic dragon hydra as part of a reverse-dungeon style adventure. They will be fighting four NPCs, which will be run by the GM. Any advice on four easy to run but effective one trick pony style characters at level 10? I'm thinking of sword-and-board antipaladin, an archaeologist bard (neither is a one-trick pony but I'm familiar enough with both to run at level 10), sorcerer focusing on evocation, and oracle. But none are set in stone, I'm hoping others have suggestions for easy-to-run but effective concepts or improvements on the ones I've listed.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

How about a first world summoner focused on being a trickster?

The first world summoner is often decried as one of the worst archetypes since it turns the eidolon into a fey (which halves its BAB and reduces its hit dice) and switches the SLA from Summon monster to Summon Nature's Ally

But one interesting change to the SNA list saves the First Worlder- they get pugwampis on SNA II list.

Pugwampis are small, weak little ugly dog creatures... who happen to have an aura that is a 20' radius of no Save AoE Misfortune hex. Yes, they cause everyone to reroll every d20 (attacks, skills, saves) and take the worse result. And since it is on such a low list, a well built summoner can get 1d4+1 of these little buggers per summoning spell. Just spread them around the battlefield and let the aura do the work. Do not think of them as summons- they are expendable nodes in an AoE debuff spell. Let the party chase after them- those are turns wasted where they are dividing their forces.

And the first worlder thus becomes a 1 (very good) trick pony witch. Throw in some of the summoner's battlefield control spells (since anything that requires a save is gold here) and ability to take summon monster like a normal caster, and you can make this guy annoying.

And there is a delightful loophole as well- luck bonuses cancel out the aura. Also, animals are immune. So great for half orcs and rangers/druids/etc. And if the party just so happens to have the right buff spells prepared? Let them steam roll.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Nothing says one-trick-pony like a blaster sorcerer focused heavily on a single spell.

I once did a one-trick-pony sorcerer (who was in fact literally a pony, thanks to the Ponyfinder campaign setting) who focused every resource she could get her hooves on into cone of cold. It was her favourite spell, she managed to get its DC about 8 points higher than the rest of her spell list, and she was almost completely shut down by anyone who knew what to expect from her and prepared themselves in advance.

It was actually quite fun, after putting all my eggs in one basket, to come up with clever ways to try and circumvent enemy defenses when they tried to counter my standard tactics.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Order of the Sword mounted combat beast-rider archetype lance wielding charge-machine. That first hit is gonna hurt like a mother$#%^er, but should the victim survive, his output is gonna drop dramatically after that.

Since you're talking 1-trick ponies, the oracle should be a life oracle focused on nothing but healing.

I would go with a crossblooded orc/dragon sorcerer1/admixture wizardX for the blaster. You get +2/dice damage, the ability to change energy on the fly, caster progression equal to a straight sorcerer, and more metamagic capability due to prepared spells.

A sword-and-board antipaladin isn't so much a 1-trick pony; an antipaladin 4 (for the "no immunity to my fear" aura)/inquisitorX (for the "add crazy bonuses to intimidate" ability) with corungun smash (for a free intimidate with each hit) is more along that line.

A halfling witch with the jinx trait and that one feat that lets you add your jinx to your evil eye hex...and the other feat that lets you add iron will/lightning reflexes/great fortitude's bonus as a negative on your jinx...can make for a serious debuffer by as early as fifth level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like all the suggestions. I'm thinking half-dragon (added to half-orc) archaeologist bard for a melee/trapfinding/bard spell combo (not one-trick, but all melee with orc ferocity and healing spells for the one encounter), sword-and-board antipaladin with cornugon smash, blaster as described by thegreenteagamer with dazing spell, the one trick is dazing magic missile, and samsaran oracle with mystic past life and the heal as a fifth level spell from the adept spell list.

This could be brutal for either side. Each head of the chromatic hydra is run by a different player, and each gets to choose one feat for their head (in addition to the shared feats of the body). Each will roll initiative separately, and they'll roll each turn to see who controls moving the body. This makes it difficult for the GM-run characters in melee, as the hydragon might move twice between moves for the bad guy characters and will usually move on a different initiative each round. The heads can fire more than one breath weapon in a round, with a 1d4+1 round cooldown. So one or more bad guy characters could be killed in the opening round with poor reflex saves, but the dazing magic missiles can incapacitate heads for a turn.

It's a test run for a half-reverse dungeon adventure I'm working on, and it if it goes well I might turn the adventure into a downloadable pdf.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How about a Varient Channeling cleric? There's a very simple, concise guide for this.
Crank the DC as high as you can, pick Daze/Nauseated effects, quick channel, and see their action economy go down the drain.
Extra fun: Aasimar and channel force feats.
That is, if their saves are separate or such.

Otherwise things with Evasion would probably be a good call.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You know, honestly...you could end them pretty quickly with a debuffer witch and a wizard with a bunch of pumped-up save-or-die spells, since they share one body. Just have the remaining two characters be focused on locking down and countering damage, should they survive the first save-or-die. With evil eye and misfortune and a high enough cranked DC, I imagine three rounds, give or take.

That is, if your option is to be a jerk :)


Actually, I'm planning on letting each player choose two good saves for their head and each head will save independently of the body against area effect spells. The set up is a half reverse-dungeon adventure, the players will play their characters and a group of evil adventurers are taking a different route to the BBEG. There is an artifact, and if the bad guys get it it's bad news. So the players will play monsters trying to stop the bad guy adventurers for half the encounters and play their characters facing similar encounters for half. It should be possible to get a tpk of the bad guys. If the bad guy party survives, the players will face them right after the BBEG fight. I'll use a videogame style level up in this case, the PCs will level up and have full hit points and spells for the last encounter.

I'm going to run the hydragon encounter this Tuesday to see how it goes. I really like the idea of having players run the five-headed chromatic hydra, but there is a lot of room for it to not work well. And the bad guy party needs to be somewhat one-dimensional for the GM to run, but if they're too one-dimensional they'll have trouble with some encounters. I'll let the players design a room of traps and puzzles for the full adventure, so the bad guys need a rogue, investigator, or archaeologist bard. The bad guys need healing and some versatility in spells.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

A maneuver focused monk makes a good one-trick pony. Trip, Dirty Trick, or Disarm (I'd avoid grapple rules since you want to keep it simple).

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Give the sword and board anti pally a conductive weapon, and the archelogist bard a bow(heirloom weapon?) Or half elf ancestral arms. Sorcerer - crossblooded draconic and orc half orc, specializing in...guess what? Fireballs. Life oracle for last, as evil parties tend to have problems getting heals (their clerics channel neg energy), unless you were to use fiendish vessel route. The fiendish vessel could take sacred summoning and keep popping standard action lawful evil critters on the party.

Alternatively, you can switch anti pally with urban ranger, favored Enemy magical beasts. Give him profeciency for full plate,suit him up in mithril full plate. Take 10 for perception as he goes around. Then bard can become a vanilla bard using longbows, for the use of inspire courage.


The adventure will be set in Dragonlance, so Dragonlance races are an option. The setup is Verminaard is teaming up with a red dragon, and they have an artifact that lets them create draconians. It is set shortly after the War of the Lance, and Verminaard has a supply of chromatic dragon eggs. They have captured a celestial and are draining the celestial's essence to create half-fiend draconians. The draconian creation process reverses alignment, so the artifact turns what would be half-celestial noble draconians into half-fiend evil draconians. Ariakas (Dragon Highlords don't always stay dead, I forget if either or both are dead in regular continuity just after the war) has hired the bad guy party to kill Verminaard and retrieve the artifact, captured celestial, and dragon eggs. Meanwhile, the party has been hired by the Knights of Solamnus as the Knights are busy restoring order and cleaning up Dragonarmy remnants.

I'm thinking Kender dex-damage based cornugon smash antipaladin 4/swashbuckler 6, minotaur urban ranger with halberd (the hydra will have reach with the heads so reach is nice to have), dwarf separatist cleric of Takhisis with the healing domain, and sylvanesti elf arcanist focusing on dazing spell with evocation spells. But there have been a lot of great ideas (most or all better than my ideas), so I'm hoping there are more race/class and feat/build suggestions.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So, how do you rule save-or-die effects, though? Say they fail both saves of a phantasmal killer? They share a body. Does one head just droop and the body presses on?


I think I'll set it up so individual heads can die, and respawn. Each head will have 50 or so hit points, and the body will have 250. If a head dies, it can regrow by taking 50 hit points out of the body's hit points. No breath weapons from any head for those two rounds, and no movement by the body for the two rounds.

If anyone has build suggestions, I really like everything that's been posted. It will be 20 point buy using the big Dragonlance conversion thread in the Conversions and all Paizo products.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Enervation wizard. Nothing says 1 trick better than a maximized empowered enervate followed by a quickened empowered enervate for 7-12 negative levels.


Here's the first so far:

Hasslehoff Briarfist
CE Kender Antipaladin of Takhisis 3/Swashbuckler 7
HD 10d10 +10

Str 10
Dex 20
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 18

Feats- Slashing Grace, Ex. Weapon Prof. Katana, Slashing Grace, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Imp. Dirty Trick

Equipment- Agile Katana +1, Mithral Shirt +1, Ring of Prot +1, Cloak of Resistance +1

Class Features- Aura of evil, detect good, smite good 1/day, touch of corruption, unholy resilience, aura of cowardice, cruelty, plague bringer, panache, swashbuckler finesse, charmed life 4/day, nimble +2, swashbuckler weapon training +1

Deeds- Dodging panache, precise strike, swashbuckler grace

Skills-
Acrobatics 10 ranks +18
Diplomacy 5 ranks +12
Intimidate 10 ranks +17
Perception 10 ranks +14
Stealth 5 ranks +13

Saves
F +10
R +16
W +9

Movement 30'

edit: added Kender bonuses to saves and perception


Hasslehoff has an additional 7 hp from favored class bonus. I didn't go with Cornugon Smash, since he's a little more versatile with the slashing grace and the levels of swashbuckler. The bad guy party have more gp of equipment than a standard NPC but not as much as a PC.

Kazarus Sumarr
LE male Minotaur TWF Urban Ranger 10
HD 10d10 +30 (10 fcb)

Str 22 (16 +2 racial +2 levels +2 belt of strength)
Dex 10 (12 -2 racial)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 10

Feats- Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, TWF, Cleave, Ex. Weapon Prof. Bastard Sword, ITWF, Outflank, Ex. Weapon Prof. Wakazashi, Big Game Hunter, Two Weapon Rend

Equipment- Mithral shirt +2, Bastard Sword +1, masterwork Wakazashi, Cloak of Resistance +2, Belt of Str +2

Class Features- FE Dragon +4, Magical Beast +4, Humans +2; TWF Combat Style, Hunter's Bond- allies, Favored Communities- Mithas and Kothas, Trapfinding, Push through, Swift tracker, Evasion

Skills-
Climb 2 ranks +11
Handle Animal 3 ranks +6
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5 ranks +8
Knowledge (geography) 5 ranks +8
Knowledge (nature) 10 ranks +13
Perception 10 ranks +14
Profession (sailor) 2 ranks +8
Stealth 10 ranks +13
Survival 10 ranks +14
Swim 3 ranks +14

Spells-
1st- Entangle, Resist Energy x2
2nd- Prot. from Energy

Saves
F +11
R +9
W +6


Amelista Slatebrim
LN female Hill Dwarf separatist Cleric of Takhisis
Domains- Tyranny and Healing
HD 10d8 +40 (10 from fcb)

Str 10
Dex 10
Con 16 (14 +2 racial)
Int 10
Wis 20 (16 +2 racial +2 levels)
Cha 12 (14 -2 racial)

Feats- Combat casting, impr. initiative, selective channeling, quicken channeling, leadership (from Tyranny domain), divine protection

Equipment- Mace +1, Mithral shirt +2, darkwood shield +1, Cloak of Resistance +2

Skills-
Diplomacy 5 ranks +9
Heal 5 ranks +13
Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks +13
Spellcraft 10 ranks +13

Channel negative energy 5d6

Saves
F +14
R +7
W +16

The negative energy channeling will affect each head and the body of the hydragon if Amelista gets close enough and survives the opening round breath weapons.


Pellarin Caladon
LE male Silvanesti admixture Evoker (Renegade) Wizard 10
HD 10d6 +20

Str 8
Dex 14 (12 +2 racial)
Con 12 (14 -2 racial)
Int 24 (18 +2 racial +2 levels +2 headband of Int)
Wis 12
Cha 7

Feats- Combat Casting, Imp. Initiative, Extend Spell, Dazing Spell, Spell Focus- Evocation, Greater Spell Focus- Evocation, Craft Wondrous Items

Equipment- Headband of Int +2, Bracers of Armor +2, Cloak of Resistance +2, Ring of Prot. +1

Saves-
F +5
R +7
W +9

These are fairly straightforward to play, but I'm hoping for suggestions to improve on them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Did you literally name your Kender one letter different from THE iconic Kender?

Admittedly, picturing a little David Hasselhoff running around with a tiny sword screaming "Have at thee" is pretty funny...but still...

It's kind of like naming your wizard Jandalf or Berlin.

Okay, first off: EWP is almost never worth burning a feat on, compared to other feats that can do more. I'd swap your Baywatch Alumni's slashing grace for fencing grace, then grab lunge. It's one less damage on average per hit, but threatening another square could be useful when closing in on, you know, a huge bloody dragon.

Remember that size matters when intimidating. Making your antipaladin small did a pretty big number to his ability to be scary.

For the same reason I said it with the Knight Rider above, I say so with your ranger. No EWP. It may LOOK cool, but looking cool alone does not get the job done (unless you're a sorcerer, and then pumping everything into your charisma to just look cool has other benefits). Those two feats could go into, well, for one, Improved Two Weapon Fighting seems to be missing from the list...and, well, he's a high enough level where Improved Crit would be pretty fun to squeeze in there. Wield a pair of kukris and your average damage for both weapons goes down by 3 for the BS and 1 for the wakazishi...oh, but then you're critting more than 1/4 strikes, so you get wonderful static damage bonuses to all your hits, which is always fun. You can also try Boon Companion to make your pet suck a little less, since you're already investing in teamwork feats.

Overall your cleric seems like a good build, except one thing; you're investing two feats into channeling and a third feat on divine protection on a cleric with a tanked charisma score. I...I don't think I'd do that. I'd swap races to something that doesn't tank charisma if you're going to go that route. But since a 20 wisdom pure cleric is pretty boss, I would instead swap those three feats out.

I like your wizard. I don't like Craft Wondrous Item. As an NPC, it has access to whatever you dangwell decide to give it, so a craft feat is just trading a feat for wealth, really. Fun suggestions: Varisian Tattoo, Empower Spell, Spell Specialization (fireball). Also, I noticed you didn't give traits. Magical Lineage (fireball), if you do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Okay, that's enough crunch, now a flavor question that really stood out to me.

Why would a cleric of the goddess of chromatic dragons and a bloody antipaladin be going toe-to-toe with what is essentially the embodiment of the queen of darkness herself? One "against type" character is trope; two is...something else entirely.


Thanks for the feedback thegreenteagamer! Hasslehoff Briarfist is meant to be a play on Tasshlehoff Burrfoot, and I didn't go with the Cornugon Smash- he's a little poorly suited to fighting the hydragon, but I like the concept and the NPCs aren't spec'd to kill the hydragon, only to test the encounter. Good points on EWP. I posted them to get feedback on how to improve them, I tend to make NPCs I might enjoy playing but ones that aren't well optimized. The negative channeling cleric should be fairly effective, she will hit each of the heads for x5 damage with negative channel. And CWI is a poor choice for the wizard, I always take it when I play a spellcaster and didn't think it through.

The setup is the adventure takes place just after the War of the Lance, and Verminaard is trying to build a power base with the artifact and an army of half-fiend draconians. The bad guy party are freelance bad guy adventurers who Ariakas hired to kill Verminaard and retrieve the artifact. It takes place in a dormant volcano near Palanthus (I model red dragon adventures after an adventure set near Palanthus just after the War of the Lance from the module World of Krynn). The forces of good are busy with what's left of the Dragonarmies and Palanthus has little support from other nations. Palanthus was relatively untouched by the War and no nearby kingdom will send forces, as they are busy with monsters and Dragonarmies and an unstable world. So the PCs have to stop Verminaard and the red dragon and also stop the bad guy party.


The Urban Ranger is the trap finding character, and needs 10 ranks of Search and Disable Device. I'll rearrange the skill points.

The half-chromatic hydra was created by the artifact Verminaard is using the create half-fiend draconians. I'm going to run the adventure as a one-shot for my old gaming group when I visit Seattle over Winter Break. They've seen a lot of adventures I've modified or written, the reverse dungeon half is a twist to make it something they haven't played before. My old group can be full of surprises, I'm half expecting the player running the blue or green head to make a dead with the bad guy party to kill the other four heads and then that player will let the bad guy pass. The players get xp for defeating the bad guys, whether with the hydragon or with their characters.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hasslehoff has no reason to take combat reflexes with 10 dex. Aren't minotaurs suoposed to use large great axes instead of twfing? Switch hitter urban ranger time? If the dwarf cleric has a cohort, why isn't the cohort anywhere around? Cohort could be a 7th lv bard, spamming inspire courage with lingering performance, don't forget to equip him/her with a short bow. I do not see how healing domain helps with heals, you still can't spon the heals. Selective channel requires 13 cha to take, 12 cha ain't gonna help much in selecting against those not in melee with the beast(you can only unselect 1 dude). Cleric needs at least 14 cha to unselect the ranger and swashbuckler who will be close up with beastie hacking.


Hasslehoff has a 20 dex. The minotaur is designed around two weapon rend, I want to make the players playing the hydragon have to choose between focusing on close melee threats or the casters a little further away. I'll move points around for the dwarf's Cha. She gets Leadership from the Tyranny domain. I'm running the hydragon encounter tomorrow as a test run, when I run the whole adventure I'll make up a cohort for her. Thanks, Just a Mort.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kazarus sorry I typed wrongly. He has 10 dex.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ranger/barbarian archer. Nothing but archery feats and more rage. Little concern for melee, it is all about using their magic bow at a str level they can only fire properly when raging.

So easy to run, rage and shoot, great ranged damage, can be killed once they get up close, but also tough enough to take light attention and still plink away.

For a lower level party, a group of these attacking from a position of ambush can ruin an unprepared party, especially if they "rage-shoot" the spellcasters from hiding, and if they can't be rushed right after the surprise round (height is good, a chasm, dangerous walkways).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I ran the encounter tonight as a test run before running the whole adventure in two weeks. The Kender antipaladin/swashbuckler was surprisingly effective, with high AC and saves and solid to-hit and damage (both based on Dex instead of Str). The Minotaur Urban Ranger with TWF was a mistake, as Just a Mort pointed out. With two weapon rend he could solo a head with a dual-hit but he rolled poorly, one hit with THF is better than two misses with TWF. The Dwarf Cleric performed as expected but I'll replace her with a LN Elf Cleric of Zivilyn with archery and positive energy channeling, keeping melee characters alive is better than the negative channel (although negative channel hitting all five heads a round was pretty strong). The wizard shined, but only survived two rounds as the party made nine of ten Will saves against dazing magic missile effects. I counted each head as an individual target with its own save, and the players rolled very well. I weighted the combat a little heavily in favor of the players and their hydragon, assuming the wizard would daze a few heads for a round in the opening round.

I think I'll replace the Minotaur TWF Urban Ranger with DUM Under The Bridge's suggest Ranger/Barbarian archer. Urban Ranger 3/Barbarian 7 provides trapfinding and the archery lets the bad guy party spread out to avoid breath weapons. The Kender solo'd a head with two hits in a round (one of the critical). One melee character is enough. And I'm going to add tail slap and wing buffet to the hydra so the players have more options than breath weapon and bite attack. I'll play around with a few wands attached to hydragon backpack that a player can activate with the tail on their turn in place of an attack.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Your Elf cleric can still take negative channel if he worships a neutral god, you just need versatile channeling feat, and you do 1d6 less neg channel dmg. Don't forget selective channel!


Thanks Just a Mort!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This thread is full of especially entertaining sentences. Here are a few of my favorites.

“I'm going to run an encounter where the players play a five-headed half-chromatic dragon hydra as part of a reverse-dungeon style adventure.”

“It's kind of like naming your wizard Jandalf or Berlin.”

“Hasslehoff has no reason to take combat reflexes with 10 dex.”

“The Minotaur Urban Ranger with TWF was a mistake…”


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:

I ran the encounter tonight as a test run before running the whole adventure in two weeks. The Kender antipaladin/swashbuckler was surprisingly effective, with high AC and saves and solid to-hit and damage (both based on Dex instead of Str). The Minotaur Urban Ranger with TWF was a mistake, as Just a Mort pointed out. With two weapon rend he could solo a head with a dual-hit but he rolled poorly, one hit with THF is better than two misses with TWF. The Dwarf Cleric performed as expected but I'll replace her with a LN Elf Cleric of Zivilyn with archery and positive energy channeling, keeping melee characters alive is better than the negative channel (although negative channel hitting all five heads a round was pretty strong). The wizard shined, but only survived two rounds as the party made nine of ten Will saves against dazing magic missile effects. I counted each head as an individual target with its own save, and the players rolled very well. I weighted the combat a little heavily in favor of the players and their hydragon, assuming the wizard would daze a few heads for a round in the opening round.

I think I'll replace the Minotaur TWF Urban Ranger with DUM Under The Bridge's suggest Ranger/Barbarian archer. Urban Ranger 3/Barbarian 7 provides trapfinding and the archery lets the bad guy party spread out to avoid breath weapons. The Kender solo'd a head with two hits in a round (one of the critical). One melee character is enough. And I'm going to add tail slap and wing buffet to the hydra so the players have more options than breath weapon and bite attack. I'll play around with a few wands attached to hydragon backpack that a player can activate with the tail on their turn in place of an attack.

Glad to help!

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh ya. If you use versatile channeling, dc is 1 lower to harm.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler

if you don't mind sacrificing some damage, you can use variant channel for daze using any neutral diety with rulership portfolio. But again the players are supposed to win, so that might be a little too much. Archery is very feat intensive, so I don't think your elf cleric will actually have many feats for channeling. You'll need selective at minimum, and I'm not sure how you rule channel to heal, is each head and the body treated as a different creature or all as one creature.

Windwall stops breath weapons.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Seeking advice on four one-trick ponies All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice