Hi all,
I've been playing in a 4e campaign for a little while and the DM is considering switching to Pathfinder.
For some of the players it's a relatively straightforward swap, my character is an Assassin/Avenger hybrid and I'm not quite sure how to go about switching her over.
Her background is someone trained to be an effective killer of the enemies of her faith. From a mechanical point of view she's been built to be very stealthy, mobile and capable of inflicting large amounts of damage quickly to a single target.
My initial thoughts was probably a ninja build...but not sure where the religious part of the build would come from. We'd be 8th level when we swap over, not 100% how many points I have to build with as yet.
There is a Warpriest archetype dedicated to being sneaky and killing people. It is not very good, but it does exist.
Ninja could work with you taking some religious-oriented feats... or you just role-play the religion and ignore whether or not it has any mechanical benefits.
The Sanctified Slayer archetype of Inquisitor is precisely this, and is excellent mechanically to boot. So...go with that.
Normal Inquisitor works pretty well (it and Avenger basically have the same in-world roles in their respective games), too, but Sanctified Slayer is literally built for precisely this (being a hybrid of Inquisitor and Slayer, the latter of which which is basically an assassin).
Deadmanwalking wrote: The Sanctified Slayer archetype of Inquisitor is precisely this, and is excellent mechanically to boot. So...go with that.
Normal Inquisitor works pretty well (it and Avenger basically have the same in-world roles in their respective games), too, but Sanctified Slayer is literally built for precisely this (being a hybrid of Inquisitor and Slayer, the latter of which which is basically an assassin).
Have to confess I'd completely forgotten the Inquisitor class when I posted earlier. I've just been looking at the Sanctified Slayer archetype and it does look pretty much what I was looking for.
fatbaldbloke wrote: Have to confess I'd completely forgotten the Inquisitor class when I posted earlier. I've just been looking at the Sanctified Slayer archetype and it does look pretty much what I was looking for. It's very solid, both thematically and in terms of mechanics.
And I'm very pleased to have hopefully directed you to something that meets your requirements. :)
Deadmanwalking wrote: fatbaldbloke wrote: Have to confess I'd completely forgotten the Inquisitor class when I posted earlier. I've just been looking at the Sanctified Slayer archetype and it does look pretty much what I was looking for. It's very solid, both thematically and in terms of mechanics.
And I'm very pleased to have hopefully directed you to something that meets your requirements. :) Sanctified Slayer looking like the best fit for sure. Thanks for the heads up :)
Looks like we'll be building the characters with 25 points, assuming we don't just port the attributes straight over. I'd gone with a high Dex/Wis build on 4e, I'm assuming the same could work fairly well for an inquisitor with their 'Cunning Initiative', or would I better giving Str a bit of a boost?
The 4e version had Str:12, Dex:18, Con:12, Int:12, Wis:18, Cha:8 after racial modifiers, so I could probably work with that if we just port straight over.
A Dex build can definitely work depending on weapon choice, though a Str build has better damage generally speaking. Str 13 is specifically useful as a prerequisite for Power Attack (which is great).
Pre-racial, you can however afford:
Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 8
And then add racial mods to Dex, or possibly Dex and Wisdom (with Dual Talent). So something is workable.
What weapon are you thinking of?
You can forgo Strength if you're willing to use a rapier, scimitar, dueling sword, or whip-- the weapons that can apply the Dexterity bonus to hit and damage with the right feats (lots more if you want to dip Swashbuckler, but I'm assuming that's a no). Otherwise you're going to want some Strength to make sure you can hit decently.
kestral287 wrote: You can forgo Strength if you're willing to use a rapier, scimitar, dueling sword, or whip-- the weapons that can apply the Dexterity bonus to hit and damage with the right feats (lots more if you want to dip Swashbuckler, but I'm assuming that's a no). Otherwise you're going to want some Strength to make sure you can hit decently. You can apply Dex-to-damage with any finesse-able weapon via the Agile weapon property. The Feats are better in some ways, but not the only option.
Deadmanwalking wrote: kestral287 wrote: You can forgo Strength if you're willing to use a rapier, scimitar, dueling sword, or whip-- the weapons that can apply the Dexterity bonus to hit and damage with the right feats (lots more if you want to dip Swashbuckler, but I'm assuming that's a no). Otherwise you're going to want some Strength to make sure you can hit decently. You can apply Dex-to-damage with any finesse-able weapon via the Agile weapon property. The Feats are better in some ways, but not the only option. ... Fair. I always forget that one exists these days.
Deadmanwalking wrote: A Dex build can definitely work depending on weapon choice, though a Str build has better damage generally speaking. Str 13 is specifically useful as a prerequisite for Power Attack (which is great).
Pre-racial, you can however afford:
Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 8
And then add racial mods to Dex, or possibly Dex and Wisdom (with Dual Talent). So something is workable.
What weapon are you thinking of?
Her primary melee weapon in 4e was the rapier, which doesn't come under the Inquisitor's proficiencies I believe. Also used crossbows and daggers fairly regularly.
Not too worried as with the sneak attack, the Bane ability combined with the solo tacitcs/teamwork feats there should be plenty opportunities to inflict some decent melee damage even without dex-to-damage.
fatbaldbloke wrote: Deadmanwalking wrote: A Dex build can definitely work depending on weapon choice, though a Str build has better damage generally speaking. Str 13 is specifically useful as a prerequisite for Power Attack (which is great).
Pre-racial, you can however afford:
Str 13 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 8
And then add racial mods to Dex, or possibly Dex and Wisdom (with Dual Talent). So something is workable.
What weapon are you thinking of?
Her primary melee weapon in 4e was the rapier, which doesn't come under the Inquisitor's proficiencies I believe. Also used crossbows and daggers fairly regularly.
Not too worried as with the sneak attack, the Bane ability combined with the solo tacitcs/teamwork feats there should be plenty opportunities to inflict some decent melee damage even without dex-to-damage. The Inquisitor gets proficiency in their deity's holy weapon so if you're using the weapon of your faith it shouldn't be an issue.
Alternatively, since your character sounds like the dexterious sort, and having feats is generally considered a good thing, you could dip 1 level into Inspired Blade swashbuckler to get proficiency, weapon finesse, and weapon focus with rapiers. Then you can pick up Fencing Grace to add DEX to dmg with them and you should be almost as good with a rapier as a first level 4e character...
LoneKnave wrote: Alternatively, since your character sounds like the dexterious sort, and having feats is generally considered a good thing, you could dip 1 level into Inspired Blade swashbuckler to get proficiency, weapon finesse, and weapon focus with rapiers. Then you can pick up Fencing Grace to add DEX to dmg with them and you should be almost as good with a rapier as a first level 4e character... This is quite unnecessary if following a God with a Rapier Favored Weapon. Especially since it sounds like this game is starting at above 1st level. You can grab Fencing grace by 3rd as a straight-up Human Inquisitor, and by 5th as anything in the game.
Now, if your deity favors another weapon, well, steps of some sort may need to be taken.
I actually quite like the idea of one level of Swashbuckler then Sanctified Slayer.
Also my deity in 4th Edition was Sehanine Moonbow, if we also convert deities to the Pathfinder pantheon it will be Desna. Neither has rapier as favoured weapon so the Inspired blade archetype will be ideal. The Inspired Finesse and bonus Weapon Focus: Rapier means I should be able to pick up Fencing Grace as my 1st level feat (at least as far as I'm aware.
My thoughts for feats after that would be to pick up Combat Reflexes to take advantage of the Swashbuckler Opportune Parry & Riposte, then possibly Improved Feint.
If I don't pick up Improved feint, I was considering Rapid Reload and Deadly Aim, crossbows being her ranged weapon of choice.
Unfortunately crossbows are not as good in PF than in 4e. Also you always need a free hand when using slashing/fencing grace or it doesnt work. Besides the fact you also need feat dedication to make ranged combat worthwhile (Precise shot, point blank, deadly aim, etc)The bow is superior in every way to the crossbow and since you are dipping swash you get proficiency. On a note there is a gunslinger archetype which get dex to damage on crossbows and some other things in case you are interested.
ElementalXX wrote: Also you always need a free hand when using slashing/fencing grace or it doesnt work. False.
Yeah... Slashing/Fencing don't work if you two-hand the weapon, but are otherwise fine (and you can't two-hand a rapier anyway for Fencing). Carry a flag, a buckler, or another weapon in the off-hand if you like and you're set. There's a setup that allows for at least semi-functional dual wielding with Slashing Grace even (shortest version: swashbuckler dip, Sawtooth Sabres)
The only abilities that require an empty hand (to my knowledge) are Dervish Dance and the Magus' Spell Combat, and the Swashbuckler's Precise Strike doesn't allow you to attack with or carry a shield other than a buckler in the off-hand. None of the three are applicable here.
I yes you are right, it was late I actually remembered i knew this lol. You would still need a free hand to reload a crossbow so you can a get a shot from it at least
The first step is admitting you have a problem, the second step is switching to Pathfinder ;)
ElementalXX wrote:
Unfortunately crossbows are not as good in PF than in 4e. Also you always need a free hand when using slashing/fencing grace or it doesnt work. Besides the fact you also need feat dedication to make ranged combat worthwhile (Precise shot, point blank, deadly aim, etc)The bow is superior in every way to the crossbow and since you are dipping swash you get proficiency. On a note there is a gunslinger archetype which get dex to damage on crossbows and some other things in case you are interested.
Oh I'm aware the crossbows won't be quite as effective, don't worry. But since that's what she was using in 4e I felt I'd stick with them for now.
Rapid Reload with the light crossbow means she could reload as a free action and get all her attacks in a round if need be. Only really going to be using the crossbow early in a fight when we've scouted ahead. Loose off a couple poisoned bolts at targets. Let the party bruisers get into melee then move up and get into flanking positions with the rapier.
That's the theory anyway.
Another option is that inquisitors get proficiency in repeating crossbows. That would let you use a heavy repeater for 5 shots before you need to reload the bolt case, and save you a feat on rapid reload if you're not going to be using the crossbow as your main weapon.
Imbicatus wrote: Another option is that inquisitors get proficiency in repeating crossbows. That would let you use a heavy repeater for 5 shots before you need to reload the bolt case, and save you a feat on rapid reload if you're not going to be using the crossbow as your main weapon. Good call, thanks. I picked up a Heavy Repeater and dropped the Rapid Reload feat. Picked up Improved Initiative instead, our party isn't the greatest in terms of Initiative bonuses, so figured a little extra boost wouldn't go amiss.
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Just a quick note to say thanks the helpful replies. Been running the character for a few weeks now, and she's working out very well. (1 level of Inspired Blade and then 7 of Sanctified Slayer).
Combat wise she isn't dishing out some of the crazy damage I was in 4e at the time, but with the Studied Target and Bane abilities she hasn't missed much so far and been dishing out respectable damage.
Been keeping the other sneaky so and so's in the party on their toes too with Discern lies/Stern Gaze.
Cheers
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