Goblin Squad Member
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I just noticed something that feel weird:
if I am wearing any kind of armor my Will/Reflex/Fortitudes defenses are in the 50/60 range.
If I remove the armor and stay in the basic T shirt they are Will 16 Reflex and Fortitude 8.
It work that way even if the armor feat is inappropriate to the kind of armor I am wearing or it is missing.
The improvement to your saves are activated by wearing an armor, any kind of armor?
What keyword activate them?
I thought that they were always active.
If you have nothing on, you have only your base bonuses for defenses. If you have even simple clothes on, you have +50 to all your defenses. Wearing medium and heavy penalizing reflex. That's just how the game works. Personally never thought to question it, though it does seem a touch silly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It work that way even if the armor feat is inappropriate to the kind of armor I am wearing or it is missing.
This might be key. As I recall, you're only supposed to get the benefit of T2 or T3 Armor if you're matching the T2 or T3 Keyword. It's easy to make the assumption that you shouldn't get the benefit of T1 Armor if you're not matching the T1 Keyword.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The 50/100/150 base defense for armor by tier is fully intended. Are you saying that characters without armor should have a base defense above zero?
In the pen and paper game the armor don't give you better saves, for some class they even remove special save bonus like evasion.
So PFO giving you a save bonus if you wear armor was a surprise.Armor give physical defenses, you have some reason to support it giving a bonus to reflex or will saves?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It work that way even if the armor feat is inappropriate to the kind of armor I am wearing or it is missing.This might be key. As I recall, you're only supposed to get the benefit of T2 or T3 Armor if you're matching the T2 or T3 Keyword. It's easy to make the assumption that you shouldn't get the benefit of T1 Armor if you're not matching the T1 Keyword.
I understood that you only were expected to meet the proficiency requirement to get the tier benefit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I understood that you only were expected to meet the proficiency requirement to get the tier benefit.
It easy to make the assumption that the +50/100/150 to all Defenses is the "tier benefit". I'm relatively certain that the +100/150 for T2/T3 is the Tier benefit, and requires matching the appropriate Keyword.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Armor give physical defenses, you have some reason to support it giving a bonus to reflex or will saves?
I think this is a case where gameplay trumps realism. One major design objective is tying Character Power to Gear. It's easier to handwave Armor boosting all Defenses than it is to design separate Gear classes for each Defense.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The 50/100/150 base defense for armor by tier is fully intended. Are you saying that characters without armor should have a base defense above zero?In the pen and paper game the armor don't give you better saves, for some class they even remove special save bonus like evasion.
So PFO giving you a save bonus if you wear armor was a surprise.Armor give physical defenses, you have some reason to support it giving a bonus to reflex or will saves?
What are Saves? There are three Defenses, and 9 or so Resistances. Physical is a Resistance, not a Defense.
If only one defense increased, high-tier combat changes- possibly in an interesting way. Perhaps giving heavy armor a larger bonus to fortitude and a smaller bonus to will might produce interesting effects.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I understood that you only were expected to meet the proficiency requirement to get the tier benefit.It easy to make the assumption that the +50/100/150 to all Defenses is the "tier benefit". I'm relatively certain that the +100/150 for T2/T3 is the Tier benefit, and requires matching the appropriate Keyword.
My defences jumped up for tier 2 armor only after I learned the appropriate "proficiency 2" feat. They did jump nicely though. :)
As far as I can tell, resistances did not move or got worse in some cases.
I miss THAC0....
I don't but I only need a two or better so...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I miss confusing creatures with Int 4-7 into submission by explaining I have Armor Class -2.
Am I to understand the base 50, 100, 150 are added into the numbers we see on the character sheet?
(If so, the lack of consistency of how defense and attack information is displayed will be another aggravation to players getting into the game. Base Defense isn't listed at all but is built into the defense numbers invisibly. BAB has it's own line, but don't follow the equation in the Combat Guide and add that to the Specific Attack Bonus line!)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The UI really need some majore love and dev hugs, not until I had played for over a week I really understood how much I didn't understand and know.
As being chaotic, it was not a big problem to me, but I imagine people coming from TT and being a bit more lawful aligned will be..... confused, to put it mildly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Am I to understand the base 50, 100, 150 are added into the numbers we see on the character sheet?
No, the numbers are included in the character sheet.
Check your reflex/fort/will defense numbers wearing any Tier1 armor, including the starter peasant clothes. Take the armor off and check your numbers again. It should be 50 points less on all three defenses, more or less.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Am I to understand the base 50, 100, 150 are added into the numbers we see on the character sheet?No, the numbers are included in the character sheet.
Check your reflex/fort/will defense numbers wearing any Tier1 armor, including the starter peasant clothes. Take the armor off and check your numbers again. It should be 50 points less on all three defenses, more or less.
Specifically, more if you have an armour proficiency slotted with keyword matches that provide bonuses to defenses.
One of the things I love about keeping up with the boards is how you pick up little bits of info that give you an "AHA!" moment. I didn't know about the base +50/100/150 just for proficiency and could never understand why my numbers went up while wearing armour type I did not currently have a slotted feat for or any keyword matches. Thanks folks!
something interesting I noticed the other day: If I have light or better armor equiped, but NO armor feat equiped, I did not get the physical resistance from the armor- but I did get the bonus to defenses.
Interestingly, it didn't matter what armor feat I slotted- Mage with Heavy still got me the Heavy Armor Physical Resistance. But Heavy Armor with no armor feat gave me no Physical Resistance.
Also, I've noticed that matching key words adds to Physical Resistance (or non-Physical Resistances for wizard armor feats); however, that benefit is not mentioned in the "Keywords Benefits" section of the feat descriptions.
Lastly, I also discovered that I die less when I am not wearing armor, especially if I have a teammate to draw the baddies. Interesting, isn't it? I clearly place too much confidence in my armor and my allies, when I have them both to lean on. Of course, in PvP I would die more- folks would say, "Hey! Look at that naked guy with the big fancy bow! Kill him first!" PvE mobs are too dumb to figure that out though :)