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I just want to say "Thanks!" to Paizo. As some may know, recently a law firm sent a cease and desist letter to the web master of dndtools.eu, forcing him to discontinue a very nice, searchable index of various feats/spells/etc published on the internet for all to use. It seems off for a company to shut down a website allowing access to materials that aren't even printed anymore.
Paizo, on the other hand, has given us access to a lot of it's printed materials at their own expense. It tells me that Paizo isn't just interested in making money, but also in writing great material and helping others have an enjoyable role-playing experience. The PRD, and Paizo's tolerance towards other searchable indexes of rules (such as d20pfsrd.com), have been great aids in our role-playing. It especially helps to speed up gameplay, especially when trying to find an obscure rule.
Thank you Paizo, for all of the work you do, and your attitude towards your products!
Here here!
Seconded!
While it is great of Paizo to allow stuff like the SRD and Archives of Nethys to exist, it's not an entirely altruistic act. It simply doesn't impact the company as much, since unless I've been mislead the majority of their income comes from the Adventure Paths, not the rules supplements.
I think it might be a different story if their main source of revenue was the rule books, like the various editions of D&D ran on.
I'll raise a mug for that. And a fist-full of dice!
I'll second all of that. Paizo has true love for all of its fans.
While it is great of Paizo to allow stuff like the SRD and Archives of Nethys to exist, it's not an entirely altruistic act. It simply doesn't impact the company as much, since unless I've been mislead the majority of their income comes from the Adventure Paths, not the rules supplements.
I think it might be a different story if their main source of revenue was the rule books, like the various editions of D&D ran on.
Well, I for one have only bought rule books from Paizo and I would not have done that if I could not google the rules (mainly because I would not be playing pathfinder).
I bought the books for the art.
I wonder which corporation sent their dogs of war out to that site....
HMMM....
We all know what is coming next. I hope that people understand that -that- company is all about...
Paizo rocks!
Also, with the advent of 5th edition of that other game I took the liberty of checking their site out to see if I could buy the PDF and check the system out without having to buy a hard copy. It's a month later and I still have no idea how to buy a PDF from their site if it's possible at all so I've given up.
So, thank you Paizo for having an easy to use online store as well.
Also, upon talking to my local game store owner about the other game it turns out that they haven't released any GMing material beyond a small PDF hidden somewhere on that mess of a site yet, making the other rule books they've released somewhat redundant as there's no tools for actually making the adventure.
Compare with the Pathfinder core book having everything you need to play the game.
So another thank-you for Paizo: Your product is actually playable after release, rather than having to wait for months for additional material to be brought out. With luck, this advanced business model of having your product be usable after purchase will catch on!
One final thing: Thanks for all the detailed options available to players. They're a real help.
That site was for 3.5 books, correct?
If yes they why take legal action for a ruleset they don't print anymore (and havn't done so for years)?
Anyway let me join the thank you to Paizo for their practices.
Oh hell yes! Thank you Paizo! You are the Steam of role playing games!
I've registered my thanks on a few threads now. The folks at Paizo are, among other things accessible. I feel valued as a customer and that's important. Their product is solid, the content is searchable and their customer service is impeccable.
But as I've also said before, a special thanks to them for being real people and not JUST a corporate entity. Yes, Paizo is a business looking to make a profit and as a former small business partner I can certainly appreciate that. However I have been and always will to some degree be in Customer Service and have a soft spot for the needs of the customer.
So does Paizo.
Erik Mona put together a number of very classy thanks and goodbyes in the last issues of Dungeon. When my subscription ran out prematurely I had the opportunity to use the leftover credit in their online store. I could've bought some generic maps for use in the new 4x game my buddy was planning. Based on Erik's seemingly genuine gratitude and concern for the patrons I decided to see what else was in the store.
When I didn't understand exactly how to use said credit I sent an email. Paizo responded in minutes with patient, detailed instructions. I responded by thanking them and saying I might be interested in the CRB. The tech replied back and she asked if I did buy it to tell her what I thought.
Today my hard copy of that CRB sits proudly on my shelf at home. The binding is coming loose from frequent use. Many pages are dogeared such as 399 (treasure per encounter) and the 560's (conditions and such). I never did respond to that email back in '07 but if anyone from Paizo is reading this: I'm VERY happy with my purchase!
So yes, thanks to Paizo. Thank you for your product, your genuine care for the customers and fans, and a willingness to be as forthcoming and collaborative with us as you can. Most of us know that you folks need to make money and that is likely your primary goal; it's nice to see however that isn't your ONLY goal.
I appreciate you Paizo. Thank you.
Thanks, Paizo Peeps! You guys rawk.
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While it is great of Paizo to allow stuff like the SRD and Archives of Nethys to exist, it's not an entirely altruistic act. It simply doesn't impact the company as much, since unless I've been mislead the majority of their income comes from the Adventure Paths, not the rules supplements.
I think it might be a different story if their main source of revenue was the rule books, like the various editions of D&D ran on.
Well, you're right about it being not-entirely-altruistic, but the open license isn't exactly a loss for Paizo, no matter what their highest sales products are.
It's very hard to demonstrate why, but I believe the PRD and the open license indirectly generate considerable revenue for Paizo. It allows them to maintain a player base that is several times the size of what the market would ordinarily bear, given the amount of disposable income each player brings.
This allows players to buy the latest and greatest books that they want to own without having the obstacle of maintaining an entire library. This is HIGHLY relevant when it comes to adventure content, since that kind of book has a lot of dependencies and would ordinarily result in a really high entry cost. Not a problem at all with the PRD.
It becomes a very difficult game to dislodge from market dominance, since any challenger will necessarily need to provide their rules for free as well, otherwise players will take the free option.
It's much too difficult to secure a premium ruleset against illegal access. People can and do download PDFs illegally. Paizo is very smart in focusing on pleasing their paying customers by making quality physical artifacts and not trying to monetize the rules.
This policy is what brought me to Paizo lo those many years ago during the Beta playtest, and I will likely stand by the company as long as they stand by the OGL.
(That, and they're cool people and they make good things.)
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For those asking, dnd-tools was for 3.5 material. I'm thinking the reason they (WotC via the law company they hired) shut it down is that they want people to move away from DnD 3.5, and purchase the "latest and greatest" DnD 4th and 5th editions. So, not entirely without reason, but still very, very sad.
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For those asking, dnd-tools was for 3.5 material. I'm thinking the reason they (WotC via the law company they hired) shut it down is that they want people to move away from DnD 3.5, and purchase the "latest and greatest" DnD 4th and 5th editions. So, not entirely without reason, but still very, very sad.
That's akin to sending those lawyers to our homes to take our v3.5 books away.
I'll be waiting for them. *cocks shotgun*
Paizo's generous open gaming liscense is more or less the reason I am here. I like the game, but it isn't perfect. It is however convenient, I am able to share information on the books I buy with my entire group with relative ease via the prd or srd, and it encourages me to buy more. Things like perrams spellcard generator has literally revolutionized the difficulty in playing casters. Players in my group who normally stick to very simple characters are playing complex characters because they can put all that information at their fingertips.
That liscense has also created a very heathy 3rd party community, which, aside from supporting their game and growing the player base further, has provided direct revenue through sales on their online store. All the pdfs and books from 3rd party companies I and countless others have bought through paizo is practically free money for them (obviously they still have warehousing and server costs, but still, its way less then the cost of developing the products themselves). That wouldnt exist without the same mentality that allows us to create the srd, or perrams spellcards.
And all that lets them focus primarily on their thing, their adventures and their setting, which aside from being really good, is renewable. Not every group will want new rulebooks. Some will, some wont. Those that do can go to the robust 3rd party community, and those that dont, still need stories. Paizo is in the business of selling stories. And the thing about that is, you can have 20 adventures where you play the same wizard. But you wont play the same adventure 20 times with different characters. Setting and adventure material are a renewable resource. Every game session is leading to you buying more.
Thanks from me, too. All the work is highly appreciated.
For those asking, dnd-tools was for 3.5 material. I'm thinking the reason they (WotC via the law company they hired) shut it down is that they want people to move away from DnD 3.5, and purchase the "latest and greatest" DnD 4th and 5th editions. So, not entirely without reason, but still very, very sad.
Unfortunately, the way this works in the courts is that you have to actively fight each violation you are aware of or else you can end up losing your right to fight any of them. Just another aspect of what might be going on behind the scenes.
I'm someone who entered the gaming industry in the early 70s, and still has my 1st edition white box plus all the supplements. My first post college job was selling gaming product for Hobby Games Distributor. I've studied and practiced sales and service best practices all my life.
Paizo is, for my money, the epitome of a customer-focused company. I'd like to join everyone else here in thanking Paizo for your focus on us, your customers. I'm very glad you're making money, and I welcome how open you are to share why you do things, and to our input.
I'll add my thanks as well. Paizo is one of those companies I love doing business with not just because they put out a great product but also because they are a great company. As far as the PRD goes I can honestly say that it's existence (and the mind set that goes with it) is one of two reasons that I started up as a Paizo customer. The other reason being their relationship with Reaper Minis (another great company).
Huzzah!
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I said it to James Jacobs and Lisa Stevens at GenCon, and I'll say it again here: Thank you Paizo for putting together not only a game, but a company that I want to keep in business for a long time.
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For those asking, dnd-tools was for 3.5 material. I'm thinking the reason they (WotC via the law company they hired) shut it down is that they want people to move away from DnD 3.5, and purchase the "latest and greatest" DnD 4th and 5th editions. So, not entirely without reason, but still very, very sad.
There's also the minor fact that another company is using their brand "DnD" for profit. If you don't protect your IP, then you can legally lose the right to it.
Of douse, what fun is this thread if you can't baselessly accuse WotC of fascism?
And there is plenty of other stuff they do on top of this. They are very involved with us fans. The are probably one of the most inclusionary companies in the market. And they are pretty good at what they do (though that point can, and probably will, be argued). Paizo is just awesome. This forum is like a second home for me on the internet.
To Paizo! For giving us all we need to play with our friends. Unless it's in society. *raises glass*
I'm a little confused, what was the basis for shutting down dndtools? I never bothered to familiarize myself with the OGL but I was under the understanding that it allowed things like dndtools and Pathfinder to exist.
Also I just got 5e's player handbook and monster manual for my players with little system mastery and/or time and the lack of online tools is making me regret it. I'm sure I'm going to get the DMG and be done with it unless I want to play low magic low numbers games. I know there is something rumored on the horizon but if its like the 4e character builder I'm selling my books.
Related: what's a good place to sell 5e books? Just in case.
I'm a little confused, what was the basis for shutting down dndtools? I never bothered to familiarize myself with the OGL but I was under the understanding that it allowed things like dndtools and Pathfinder to exist.
I dont know the site, but I guess it strayed outside the terms of the OGL (or wasnt released under the OGL at all). My uninformed guess would be that the site advertised itself as compatible with D&D (or perhaps used terms which were IP - like Bigby's spells or such).
I suspect it's similar to how a professional publisher can't produce a pathfinder compatible book or website using solely the OGL (in fact as I understand it, it's the OGL itself that prohibits such a thing). You have to also use the Pathfinder compatibility license, which imposes further conditions if you wish to indicate compatibility.
Though I buy as many hard copy products as I can, the online resources are a lifesaver for my gaming creativity.
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Regarding the site closing even though there's the OGL, the problem probably stemmed from the fact that not everything published in 3.5e was open for use. A few things from the core books weren't (IP names and such) and most supplements.
Sovelior's SRD likely is most (if not all) that's actually released under OGL and able to be displayed on a website (so core, psionics, unearthed arcana and some divine stuff). If dnd-tools had all the supplements, then that's likely why they were shut down.
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And absolutely, the point of the Open Gaming License was to create a gaming developing community that was more healthy for a niche market. 3e came on the tails of a "sue everybody" environment, with the internet starting to skyrocket (so self-publishing simple things would be incredibly easy), and still some "it's devil worship!" sentiment to shed.
It was an incredibly bold, trusting and longterm move for Ryan Dancey. The idea that allowing others to profit using your work, as long as they point to your work, would foster an environment where people would get interested in gaming and that interest would spark more people in your own product.
It's probably what kept pen and paper gaming alive and growing during the computer/internet boom.
And Pathfinder "keeping the dream alive" is why they deserve great love in our community. No matter how OP you might think the Summoner is. ;)
Thank you for making the game i love