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I've been running Rpg games for a long time now. Pathfinder is nice in certain aspects. It is always good to ask your GM about bringing a revolver in.... However I'm on the revolver = pistol side of the rules and the reasons are as follows.

Historically speaking the worlds first revolver was made in 1597 by Hans Stropler. It is an 8 shot flintlock revolver. If you notice the end of the handle is a large heavy ball. When you are done with your shots and/or your opponent comes into hand to hand combat, the revolver becomes a club.

This is what I use for reference of a revolver in a fantasy setting.
Incredibly rare, incredibly expensive to make, but a valid weapon to be used. There is no real reason why not having this kind of weapon when you have have Maces of Disruption, Luck Swords, etc, etc, that are far more powerful than this. Magic still rules the day.

As far as size of the pistol (compared to the revolver) of that day? Almost the same. Including the Ball/club in the end of the handle. The youtube video gives you a small history about the Hans Stropler revolver.


The next url is a similar picture of a single shot variety of pistol.

http://www.guns.com/2011/02/21/the-first-murder-of-a-monarch-with-a-firearm /

Bty both pistols featured in that article definitely are not the ones used in the assassination of a monarch.

Both firearms were made for high class/nobility. Common weapons for this time period was basic in its construction and definitely not as ornate. And were single shot.

That's my take. A little bit of history can go well in a fantasy setting. I have used it in a character and allowed it as a GM if the character is high enough level to logically purchase one.

In the end it really depends on the GM to make the decision one way or another.

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Skeld wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Good stuff.

The +5 bonus for trained skills and the +5 bonus for skill focus were both too high. But your right, SWSE was the best RPG put out by WotC and I bought all the books.


You are right about 5ED. I have commented in the past about doing 3 party work. Up to 50 Grand is for projects. But seeing how 5ED took off as well as the stagnation of the Pathfinder Rule set put a halt on that aspect. That amount is going to sponsor various artist to continue their works.

Pathfinder needs to be updated if it is going to be a viable competitor again WotC. Otherwise it will be like AMD vs Intel comparison from a different market.

I like Paizo. I really do. You do converse with your customer base and I appreciate that. I am also taking the benefit of the doubt that you are watching for and preparing for foreseeable problems down the road.

But from a business perspective, until I see something really tangible about updating your rule system. I'm not going to make any "professional" ventures into that market.

LazarX wrote:

Comparisons are misleading. The overall market for RPG's in general is a good deal smaller than that time, many of the indpendents have closed up shop or are just doing licensed deals of TV shows such as Buff/Angel, Star Trek, Dr. Who, and Dresden Files. Paizo is doing well enough to keep a decent size staff fed and working full time on product. And what product they produce, they sell. They're not shoveling vast quantities of their printed material into landfills.

THAT is the measure of viability.

I agree with most of this comment as from the information given to me via my sources it is a lot smaller than what people think it is actually.


I agree with Jester David has posted on this topic as well as line of thought is concise and mostly parallels my own.

I Have issues with 3.5. The bloatware is unacceptable. Layer upon layer of rules has made the game clunky. A revision is needed and soon, regardless of 5E having the option of OGL.

Interesting. I'll forward this to my technical writer and see if she and I could do something with this.

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I would rather see more modules and materials supporting the BB. Though a nice idea you waited too long for implementation of this idea.

Nicely done.

I wonder which corporation sent their dogs of war out to that site....


We all know what is coming next. I hope that people understand that -that- company is all about...

FiremanTim wrote:

My 2 cents based on my BB experience:

-Add the halfling race
-Add the ranger class
-a sandbox style campaign setting (standpoint or its likeness) stocked with a half dozen or so dungeon/adventures that are scalable from levels 1-5 with a dozen new monster stats.
-add scribe scroll, intimidation skil, and maybe some basic craft skills
-add a dozen basic languages

Easy breezy lemon sqeezy

Noted as this is a logical concept.

As for an update I think I found something that would be unique enough to stand on it's merits. I'll have to start talking to several of the "Old Horsemen" I know to see if my concept is a viable on.

From a business standpoint it really does matter on the perception of an average person that might want to try a RPG system than what a veteran thinks.

If they feel that Paizo is a bloated system then they will balk and head for D&D.

And one of the reasons are that the Rpg players/groups as a whole are aging. They do not have the time because of family/economic situations. They want something simple and engaging. Something that they might get their kids involved in.

Being overwhelmed by so called bloat will stop new and casual players from getting into the game. Any game actually.

I'm going to break this down a bit.

Your comment, quote:

"What I'd like to see for the BB is a series of campaigns designed to take a player from level 1 to 5 (or six with the transitions guide). Which means a campaign setting and some adventures. The key would be to keep them simple. If the story-lines are easy to keep track of for the GM (who I would assume either wants a simpler game or is new to RPG's) then they'll be played."

My reply.
This part is rather easy to do as I have a few IP's (Intellectual Property) that I can follow through with. However as stated before the content has to be unique enough to stand on its own. That is the crux of the matter.

Your comment, quote:

"An interesting thought I had was a series of free products for gm's that provide pre-generated NPC's with motivations, history, and maybe some jobs they might hire a PC for. This would be a one-page product done to get attention to the BB line of products. Maybe one released a month. Keep people coming back to the site to see what's new."

My reply.
The free part can only happen if I am satisfied that the content created for BB will at least break even.

One of the luxuries I have is a professional Technical Writer on staff. Which means that the print content and layout will be of a higher quality than just an individual or a group of friends getting together to create something.

To Wally.West's comment. I'll keep that in mind as well about upper levels for BB.

ShallowHammer wrote:
Adam LongWalker wrote:

...You can not win the hearts of the people who are into one RPG or another. You have recruit new customers and try to retain many of the old customers to promote growth. Let the customers decide which choice they want to make. Do not...

I am certainly glad to hear of someone who is thorough in their business thinking. I've tried similar endeavors in the past and because of my business inexperience didn't succeed. If you do decide to do it, I believe you'd have the best chance of success. I hope you do. My kids and I love the BB ruleset and I either have to create my own or adapt things myself, which can be tricky at times (especially with larger modules and such). I am curious, though:

How do you do market research? Do you look up published references or hire a company to do it? I've always wondered.

First of all let's talk about your failure. A true failure is when you did not learned from your mistake. There is always the knowledge of what you learned. Something that sticks with you for a life time.

One of my memorable failures is a business venture opening up a comic/game store in the late 80/90's. I thought it was a cool idea opening up a store like that with other like minded individuals. I had to learn fast about customer service as well as purchasing product.

I have fond memories of good people playing games and having fun at the shop.

The reason for the store's failure is my partners got all bound up into the Comic Book Ponzi scheme during that time.

One important rule that everyone should now.... The value of something is what the market will bear...

When the collapse of the Comic Book industry happened the store had to close. My partners were financially ruined. I chalked it up as another learning experience and wrote my losses for tax purposes.

That basic foundation of knowledge that I have gained has not changed much through the years.

Remember if you learn from your mistakes your venture is not truly a failure...

And I have failed a hell of a lot, but I've also succeeded enough to live comfortably. You have to be stubborn at times to live through the bad times and wise enough remember them. I simply just kept going until I have a favorable result.

Your next question is about market research. The answer is simple and yet at times hard to achieve a probable result.

1. The internet is your friend so DATA MINE all information necessary for your content/product. Then after months of research you come to a probable result one way or another.

2. Network. You have no idea on how important networking is... I have had projects land on my feet by people who where not in the same industry, but they knew someone, who knew someone, who had an interesting idea.

3. Market research companies. This can be as cheep or expensive as you want it to be. I have several subscriptions on which market I have an interest in.

But I'll give you freebee... Icv2.com It is a pretty good site to look up all sorts of entertainment markets.

Now that I think I have answered the question given so I'll ask one of my own.

What do you think is needed in 3BB?

Adam LongWalker.

Terquem wrote:
Ah yes the soft cover army books of Games Workshop. Back in my day (early to mid 1990s) we loved those soft cover books that came apart so easily so you could put only the pages you needed into slip covers and then into a binder to keep handy. Man that was a brilliant design flaw um feature

Games Workshop could be construed as an example of a multinational corporation who had everything in place to excel and promote their product and be a prominent player in the 21st century. But they failed in the understanding of their market as well as the rapid chances of customer needs.

They are now a Shadow of their former selves.

I bring this up as an example of a very profitable company who sat on their laurels instead of looking ahead (as well as the current state of affairs), as well as a cautionary warning to those higher up.

5ED is a game changer. It is not a question of those who are hardcore in their choice of RPG system. They will stay in their system regardless.

It is the competition of gathering new players and 5ED is rather easy to play, that is backed by the Juggernaut known as Hasbro.

This is going to be a war of attrition. Let's hope that those higher up in Paizo understand what lies ahead.

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ShallowHammer wrote:
Adam LongWalker wrote:

First time poster here. I think that there is a market as well. I like the beginner box set has a "good bang for a buck" in what you get for under $40.00.

I'll just have to mull this over and decide if I want to go this route in making an investment into doing 3rd party modules. Getting quality artwork will be the most expensive aspect in creating content. Licensing could be another if I want more than just a 3rd party license.

Adam LongWalker.

I remember reading (wish I remembered where) that Paizo just doesn't want "Beginner Box" mentioned in the product name or description. Other than that, it's OGL. Hence the reason you get 0One game's BASIC series.

That being said, I would support a Kickstarter project for 3pp material. If it doesn't have any artwork, I'd be happy if the content is good. I'd say the artwork would be a stretch goal.

I understand what Paizo is possibility thinking.


I've been involved within the Entertainment Industry (in one form or another) for a very long time. I keep statical data on certain parts of the market share I wish to invest.

The biggest asset to the company (IMHO) is currently their community(+ RPG Society) which Paizo has done a good job in nurturing and promoting.

The biggest threat to the company is 5th ED D&D and even though 5th ED was 2nd place in this years summer sales, Paizo should not be complacent.

Because 5ED is very streamlined and rather easy to use.

The other threat that sometimes businesses fail to react quickly to our very fast paced society. Changes of what people want happen far quicker than they did in the 70's. RPG games as a whole do not have the same growth pattern as (an example) Board Games.

You can not win the hearts of the people who are into one RPG or another. You have recruit new customers and try to retain many of the old customers to promote growth. Let the customers decide which choice they want to make. Do not force the customer to make that choice...

Because they will...

I do not think that Paizo would throw opportunity away just because. I believe if promoted the right way, product can be created for the Beginner Box set AS well as Core set of Rules.

Financing a high quality product is not a problem for me. I can do this is because I made wise investments (such as real estate) over the years and live within my means.

I want to create content for people to enjoy but...

What is stopping me is several things. Some of it is more research needs to be done within the RPG sector to see if it is expanding or contracting of late. Part of me hates throwing money away on a market that is possibly shrinking. A slow contraction within this sector is still a possibility to create content though.

Another is the entire business aspect of licensing the product itself.

This can be a royal pain to deal with at times. Dealt with talking heads before and the legalese. Not sure if I want to deal with that style of business for what I would consider my fun time in creating content.

Which is why I am leery with WotC style of business ethics and hoping Paizo is not quite the same.

Then finally what kind of product this will be. It must be unique enough and strong enough to stand on its own, otherwise it will drown in the sea of 3rd party product that is out there now. Again more research is needed.

It takes a great deal of time and effort (besides financing the product)to succeed in these economic times. I've been there and I've done it and succeeded within my skill set.

And sometimes being an old man can be a blessing for if your are wise enough you will retain the wisdom of your mentors and peers from your past to the present...

So you won't make the same mistake twice.

As stated before... I'm still mulling this over. There are pluses but there are minuses as well that must be taken into account before I start throwing time and resources into creating content.

Until then I'll continue to Rping with the Beginners Box set.

Adam LongWalker

First time poster here. I think that there is a market as well. I like the beginner box set has a "good bang for a buck" in what you get for under $40.00.

I'll just have to mull this over and decide if I want to go this route in making an investment into doing 3rd party modules. Getting quality artwork will be the most expensive aspect in creating content. Licensing could be another if I want more than just a 3rd party license.

But back to topic. I really like the beginner box set. The biggest thing I can see going for the box set is fast easy casual play.

Core rules could be labeled as "Epic style" of Rpging.

And there are many of us that have hectic lives just do not have the time to play a serious set of core rules. I'm one of them. But I sure like to have a fun and simple game to rp for a few hours a week.

Adam LongWalker.