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A wizard player pulled this as a summon... I need your expert help to determine if I should disallow its use???
Does this thing do too much for being just a CR1 elemental???
Should I expect all future encounters to be owned by this player? As a GM should I be concerned this will break encounters? Please have a look.
Pax
It's third party. And yes, you should disallow it's use as it is poorly balanced at best.
Its not in the base books, its up to you to specifically allow it. Not sure what is so breaking about it though. A small one can't crush. So full-round action fort save or held in place. And, immune to missile weapons. Not exactly game breaking.
Wow, that's a ridiculous creature. It definitely shouldn't be allowed.
I don't know what sources you allowed in your game (often using 'all first party material' is ok, some GMs disallow certain books or prefer to only allow the core books or main line of paizo books). In any case, 3rd party sources are rarely allowed and your player should be asking first, and you'll want to check the source itself first.
Discuss with your group and set up explicit guides about which sources are allowed. If you're new, you may just want to stick with Core and some other main paizo books (Ultimate Magic/Combat/Equipment/Campaign, Advanced Players/Class Guides, there may be more I'm forgetting). Some of the Pathfinder Setting things (usually softcovers) can be a bit less balanced as they're not subject to as much scrutiny from the design team before publishing.
It's third party. And yes, you should disallow it's use as it is poorly balanced at best.
This. Seconded.
Seeing the Sovereign Court emblem next to your name, I hope this wasn't during a PFS game?
This as well. PFS doesn't even allow the B2 elementals for SM/SNA and those are official and balanced (that gravity one, I've seen it linked before, is definitely neither).
... In any case, 3rd party sources are rarely allowed and your player should be asking first, and you'll want to check the source itself first.
Discuss with your group and set up explicit guides about which sources are allowed... If you're new, you may just want to stick with Core and some other main paizo books...
... and this as well. I'd advise sticking with Core + APG + Bestiary 1 and 2, getting to know the system, then expanding to the larger official core universe, only later adding softcover/non-core line and (if you must, I rarely ever recommend it) 3rd party products only when those first two levels are second nature.
[edit: When mentioning 3pp I'm speaking only of rules stuff, 3rd party adventures and fluff that use official material for rules can be great.]
Its not in the base books, its up to you to specifically allow it. Not sure what is so breaking about it though. A small one can't crush. So full-round action fort save or held in place. And, immune to missile weapons. Not exactly game breaking.
Why couldn't a small one crush? It's in the stat block.
Keep in mind it has a permanent reverse gravity within melee range too, if I read it correctly.
I don't see where this creature is game-breaking. It has some unique abilities, yes, but the DCs of the saves are ridiculously small at that CR.
The only creatures that are going to be affected by the engulf ability are those tiny or smaller. And if it does engulf something, it has the grappled condition against all other opponents.
The crush ability does an average of 5hp damage. Hardly devastating, and again the DC is low.
A melee-focused opponent can take this thing out in one round.
Methinks there's a lot of overreaction here.
I think even if you are all for 3rd party stuff, and I like a whole lot of it, it makes sense to read something like summon monster: elemental (any) to be summon monster: elemental (any Piazo) or even (any Bestiary I)
I would not allow it.
The engulf ability alone, is way to powerful.
................
If you allow it, expect someone to start looking at Shrink Person, or Shrink item spell, to start being used.
Net them, time them up so they are helpless. Shrink them. Then deposes of them, into the engulf elemental, so they can not be raised except by 9th level spells.
................
That is not even counting its other, two powerful ability's.
What cr would be appropriate, I wonder?
I don't remember the exact events, but we had a druid in our Legacy of Fire game summon one of those with SNA2. After that we all kind of looked at each other and agreed that that should never happen again. So, I don't remember why it was broken, only that it was. I confined SNAs to bestiary 1 elementals after that.
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Wow, that's a ridiculous creature. It definitely shouldn't be allowed.
I don't know what sources you allowed in your game (often using 'all first party material' is ok, some GMs disallow certain books or prefer to only allow the core books or main line of paizo books). In any case, 3rd party sources are rarely allowed and your player should be asking first, and you'll want to check the source itself first.
Discuss with your group and set up explicit guides about which sources are allowed. If you're new, you may just want to stick with Core and some other main paizo books (Ultimate Magic/Combat/Equipment/Campaign, Advanced Players/Class Guides, there may be more I'm forgetting). Some of the Pathfinder Setting things (usually softcovers) can be a bit less balanced as they're not subject to as much scrutiny from the design team before publishing.
I'll second this and get on my 3rd party soap box for a moment.
There is good 3rd party material out there and there is bad.There is good 1st party material out there and there is bad (in every system).
Be familiar with what is out there and always let your players know what is acceptable.
I generally break down what is acceptable, what is approvable on a case by case basis, and what is not allowed.
Restricted material is another way to make your game more thematically cohesive.
Wow, that's a ridiculous creature. It definitely shouldn't be allowed.
I don't know what sources you allowed in your game (often using 'all first party material' is ok, some GMs disallow certain books or prefer to only allow the core books or main line of paizo books). In any case, 3rd party sources are rarely allowed and your player should be asking first, and you'll want to check the source itself first.
Discuss with your group and set up explicit guides about which sources are allowed. If you're new, you may just want to stick with Core and some other main paizo books (Ultimate Magic/Combat/Equipment/Campaign, Advanced Players/Class Guides, there may be more I'm forgetting). Some of the Pathfinder Setting things (usually softcovers) can be a bit less balanced as they're not subject to as much scrutiny from the design team before publishing.
I'll second this and get on my 3rd party soap box for a moment.
There is good 3rd party material out there and there is bad.
There is good 1st party material out there and there is bad (in every system).
Be familiar with what is out there and always let your players know what is acceptable.
I generally break down what is acceptable, what is approvable on a case by case basis, and what is not allowed.
Restricted material is another way to make your game more thematically cohesive.
True that. There is 3rd party material I'd never allow at my tabletop. There is also 3rd party material I'd rather have at my tabletop than many 1st party things.
I hope you all never forget that the most unbalanced Pathfinder book published is, and always will be, the Core Rulebook.
I think it's more like, if you allow the little ones at first, you have to allow the bigger ones later.
Nip it in the bud while you can.
Which is a completely different argument than "ZOMG! SOOOO OP-BROKEN!!!1one!!"
I just get a little tired of the hyperbole.
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Also, the creature was written to be an adversary to the characters, not a summonable tool. Some of the arguments against also apply to other elementals as well so I don't quite follow the logic.
Its not in the base books, its up to you to specifically allow it. Not sure what is so breaking about it though. A small one can't crush. So full-round action fort save or held in place. And, immune to missile weapons. Not exactly game breaking.Why couldn't a small one crush? It's in the stat block.
Keep in mind it has a permanent reverse gravity within melee range too, if I read it correctly.
I misread it. Crush is 1/day per 2HD. Thought the small only had 1HD, turns out, he has 2.
Ok, so if it has a permanent reverse gravity within 5' then you just get to float 5' up and still smack it.
Regardless, it is ridiculous for a CR1, and 3rd party, which I always assume is banned unless the GM explicitly allows it beforehand.