| EldritchWeaver |
I've been playing a sorcerer 3/rogue 1 for some while, but by chance I noticed the Arcanist. As I like the spell casting of the Arcanist better than wizard (too much effort to choose the spells) or sorcerer (too restricted choice of spells), I asked the GM if I can switch the class and subsequently the race as well (depending on ingame rationale).
I got permission to restat my character within limits, namely that the character shouldn't appear too different to what he is right now (and probably not too much tricked out, though I suppose it is easier to tone down a build than sprucing it up). So my plan right now is only to exchange sorcerer class, as my group doesn't have another thief and being able to find and disable traps, open locks, etc. is more important than what I get by being e.g. a ninja instead (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me :).
That being said, I've looked over the possibilities. The things people posted about the Arcanist offer mainly advice for a single-class progression, but that seems to be partially contrary for an Arcane Trickster build. So I'm not sure which choices make sense for me. Also, for a race I have the problem that the GM is reluctant to allow more monstrous(-looking) races. He accepts Elf and probably also Sylph, but other races will be hard to convince. IMO, Sylph seems to be more suitable than Elf.
So overall I have more of a sketch of an idea than a concrete plan and I'm supposed to provide character sheets (for both Elf and Sylph) until the next session. As I'm not that experienced with Pathfinder, I'm a bit overwhelmed. So any help is very much appreciated. :)
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
Hi there. So, i played an arcane trickster for YEARS, and here's what I know: it's not a good class.
It's a good idea: sneaky spellcaster, but this particular class doesn't do the job as well as you want, and you need to know the game pretty well to make it work. Even then, it's not strong, it's just ok.
But there's a better solution: just switch over to rogue 1/arcanist 3, and go arcanist after that. Why? Because spellcasting is better than anything the rogue class gives you, and because being great at one thing is more useful than being mediocre at two.
You've already got what you want from the rogue class, you've got trapfinding, and you've unlocked the skills you want. All you need to do now is keep putting skill points into skills like perception, stealth, and disable device.
Question, what's the difference between a rogue with +14 stealth, an an arcanist with +14 stealth? Very little, except the arcanist can probably also turn invisible.
Feel free to use your spells and exploits to make you sneakier. Invisibility, dimensional slide, knock, disguise self, etc. are all great choices. There are more options than lightning bolt.
| BretI |
The main problem with going Rogue / Arcanist / Arcane Trickster is that you will not continue to improve your exploits pool or gain exploits. You would need to spend feats to improve these or gain additional rogue talents.
You are going to want a better Int for the Arcanist, the Charisma only helps with some of the exploits and for many builds is not worth it. This may significantly change your character.
If you decide to go for the Arcane Trickster, I would recommend you pick up at very least the Force Strike and Dimensional Slide exploits. The Force Strike could be used with Sneak Attack, which is a big deal for an Arcane Trickster. I don't expect that I have to explain the use of the other exploit. :)
I would suggest reading through this guide as if you were playing a Wizard, and then looking at the exploits that work well with Sneak Attack and other things mentioned in that guide.
| Abraham spalding |
My advice? If you are feeling overwhelmed don't change to arcanist. The arcane trickster is a very particular class and a challenge to use well. You have limited resources (including action economy) that can make it difficult to really know what to do and when.
If you do change my advice for what to pull out of the arcanist is thus:
Intelligence is worth more than charisma for you as an arcanist. Don't get suckered into the damaging arcane exploits -- you won't have the levels to make them good.
Good Exploits:
Potent Magic is a great choice however as you can increase both your caster level and DC for a swift action which is going to be very useful to you.
Dimensional Slide is a alright choice as well. Normally you won't get teleport abilities until later and the action economy is right for this one.
Consume Magic Item is iffy. If you get plenty of items why not but otherwise I would just be sparing on when you use up your points.
School Understanding isn't bad if you can choose a subschool like teleport or foresight.
Archetypes:
Stay away from unlettered (wrong spells for you) and white mage (too costly).
Eldritch Font isn't terribad, but be careful of that third level power and respect the lost of the spell known each level. The level 7 power is nice to come back to after you max out arcane trickster but that will be really late game and still leaves you fatigued.
I wouldn't take blood arcanist (too few levels), school savant isn't horrible but eats up your exploits until fifth level which hurts, in return you get to have a full on school (possibly subschool) from a wizard with an extra spell known each day which is nice.
Element focus is too specialized.
Twilight Sage might be worth it. Twilight barrier is meh, but the ability to consume death instead of spells to get your points back is useful, especially since you know, adventurers kill things fairly regularly. There are plenty of decent necromancy spells to prepare too so the focus isn't too hard to live with.
EDIT -- Also Force strike is horrible terrible bad for a starting out arcane trickster. No attack roll means no sneak attack. Sorry BretI but that's the truth of the matter.
TL:DR Version IF you do this: Potent magic == good, twilight Sage == good, intelligence > charisma. Dimension slide and school understanding == nice choices.
| BretI |
EDIT -- Also Force strike is horrible terrible bad for a starting out arcane trickster. No attack roll means no sneak attack. Sorry BretI but that's the truth of the matter.
I missed that there was no attack roll. Yeah, that does make it horrible for the AT. Should have reread the description before posting.
So only Acid Jet, Ice Missile, and Lightning Lance would allow the Sneak Attack. The problem there being elemental resistances. I assume that none of these gain power as you advance in Arcane Trickster either, since the damage is based on level which I take to be Arcanist level rather than spell caster level. It would be better if it were spell caster level, since then the AT would improve them.
Even more reason to dump Charisma and go Int only. Treat it as a sorcerer that can change spells known every day.
Add Occultist to the list of archetypes to avoid as an Arcane Trickster. It needs a large arcane reservoir in order to summon plus the lost levels really hurt you.
| EldritchWeaver |
Thanks for the advice so far and sorry for the late answer. I'm still rereading the guides to Arcane Trickster to see if I should take this prestige class or not. It seems if I'm not using the sneak-blasting, then the sole thing of interested is the ranged legerdemain, for which having the additional rogue levels isn't worth it. Am I correct in my analysis so far or did I miss something?
Also that I need all 10 levels of AT wasn't something I had figured into my assumptions. I need to check with my GM first, but if indeed the game won't last that long then staying with the Arcanist seems worthwhile.
| BretI |
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I came to the same conclusion, that I would be better off Rogue 2 / Transmuter or Arcanist for the rest. The power you get from advancing in the spell casting class is better than you would get off Arcane Trickster, plus you can still get your FCB. Especially when you consider there is a magical item, the Brass Spider, that allows you to deactivate traps from a distance.
Ranged Legerdomain would be a fun ability, but it isn't worth the hit on arcane power.
| EldritchWeaver |
I came to the same conclusion, that I would be better off Rogue 2 / Transmuter or Arcanist for the rest.
Why Rogue 2? Is Evasion that good? Or a certain Rogue talent? The very least it helps that you get the full Magical Knack bonus in that case. As you likely lose the Arcanist capstone anyway (no epic rules for Pathfinder, right?), it is just one exploit less at 20th level.
Also Brass Spider, sounds interesting. :)