Greg Rucka and Cully Hamner doing two new issues of Renee Montoya as the question as part of DC's Convergence event. Details are here.
Also, Gail Simone and Jan Duursema doing an Oracle and Nightwing Story. A Stephanie Brown Batgirl story. A Wally West story. A Ryan Choi story. Even Damian's back in a Batman and Robin story.
Looking forward to seeing Renee again.
Ryan Choi? Isn't he dead?
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Ryan Choi? Isn't he dead?
Comic books.
Ryan Choi? Isn't he dead?
Apparently not. And it seems that the pre-Flashpoint DCU has survived in some sort of reality bubble or some such.
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I loved Ryan Choi. I loved the sea that a super hero could have a new person take up the mantle without the horrid death of the predecessor. I loved the philosophy parts of the comic. I hated how one of the few Asian superheroes was treated by the "fans".
Until this pre-Flashpoint reality becomes the new norm for a few years, I'm not buying into it. DC's gotten my hopes up too many times, only for them to be dashed.
Yeah, I agree. I'm still going to pick up some of this stuff to enjoy what once was and what might be again, some day down the road.
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If ray died and came back as an Asian man, you might have a point, but he stepped away from the role for a while to get his head right, and another person stepped in. He *is* another character, and one that isn't a stereotype, something both companies have has an issue with with respect to Asian characters. Iirc, he was LOOKING for ray.
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For another character like this, you only need point to Jaime Reyes. He had a relatively successful run, but I'm not sure he was ever able to step out from Ted Kord's shadow. I think one thing that helped distinguish Jaime is that while he used the Blue Beetle name, his powers and style was completely different. Ted was a Batman clone who was more happy-go-lucky, mostly due to a far less tragic backstory. Jaime? He's closer to Hal Jordan.
Interesting perspective, mis. One of the most balanced statements I've read.
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If it gets Clark and Lois back together, I'm all for it.
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3) Why exactly do they have to change the race of a character to make it diverse? If you want to use a Chinese person, why pick on Ray Palmer's gig? You can't make a whole new character?
Maybe that is harder than it looks for DC though. Most of their new characters just don't sell.
To me, the approach they took with Ryan Choi seems a valid one to increasing the diversity of a publisher's line-up of superheroes. It's not the only approach, they could, as you said, make up a whole new character. I understand the arguments against legacy characters that are of different race, gender, orientation, etc. than the originals, but I'm up for both approaches co-existing, personally.
Choi taking over the role is also in keeping with the traditions of the DCU, which has along history of legacy characters, characters who take on the mantle of earlier characters. So in a way, Ryan Choi is no different than Wally West, or John Stewart, or Kyle Raner, or Hal Jordan, or Barry Allen, or Tim Drake, or Cassie Cain, or Stephanie Brown, or Kate Kane, or Kendra Saunders, etc. etc.
This is a bit less common at Marvel, but, hey, Miles Morales, awesome character.
It is exceedingly rare for a new character to survive publication, let alone remain popular. It ebbs and flow, but Wolverine is about the only "new" character I can think of (originating after 1970 or so) that has made it to the gold standard.
If you mean a character known outside of comics fandom, yes, there's not many. I'd add John Stewart in there. If you mean in terms of characters known to comics fans, there have been plenty, actually.
Ms. Marvel (She is called "Captain Marvel" now? Lame, Marvel needs to do the right thing and let that name go un-trademarked or whatever it is. There is only one Captain Marvel, and his nickname is "The Big Red Cheese.") and characters like Nova and She Hulk have runs for a couple of years, then they go back to limbo or background status.
There was a previous Captain Marvel in the Marvel U, who first appeared in the 60s, so this isn't that new a thing. Carol, whose origin is connected to him, took on his mantle. She's a legacy character in that sense. (Also, not the first woman to be named Captain Marvel - there was Monica Rambeau back in the 80s).
Quite honestly, I'd take Marvel's current Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) over DC's/Fawcett's Captain Marvel any day of the week. Marvel's decision to turnKelly Sue DeConnick loose on the character was a great one. And the Carol Corps is a wonderful. As is the new inheritor of the Ms. Marvel moniker, Kamala Khan. The Big Red Cheese is fun, but I'll take a superhero who's become something of a feminist icon, and a superhero who has added some much needed diversity to Marvel, both of whom are great and well-written characters, any day of the week.
I guess I'm not seeing any sign of lameness here.
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This is a bit less common at Marvel, but, hey, Miles Morales, best character.
Fixed that spelling for you.
I also left out Renee Montoya in my list of legacy characters, to bring things back around to my original post.
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This is a bit less common at Marvel, but, hey, Miles Morales, best character.Fixed that spelling for you.
No argument from me. Love Miles, love Bendis' work on the book, and Pichelli's work, and now Marquez's work.
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One of the things I hope to see with the Convergence event is a return to heroes who are heroes because they can make a difference. Every hero in the DCU having "some defining moment of tragedy" gets old really fast. Yes, it's an imperfect world, and yes, sometimes the experience of a great loss motivates people to do good deeds... but often times, people do good not because of what they've lost, but because what they can help other people gain. Ted Kord, Ralph Dibny, any of the Flash Family, you name it - these are all heroes who do what they do not because of the bad things that have happened to them, but because of the good things they can do for other people. Even with the addition of a murder mystery to Barry Allen's backstory (which wasn't originally there), Barry still does the right thing not because of his "moment of darkness," but because he recognizes, rightly so, that these powers give him the ability to help people.
And honestly, as much as I do enjoy several of the New52 titles (Swamp Thing, for instance), one of the things I miss the most about the pre-52 DCU is the heroes who are heroes because they want to be, not because they're perpetually ten years old, watching their parents get gunned down in an alley. :(
Speaking of replacement characters, two issues in and I am enjoying the heck out of the new Thor.
Great work by writer Jason Aaron and artist Russell Dauterman. A Viking goddess superhero flying around, hitting frost giants with a magic hammer? Yes, please.
Ted to me will always be the one and only blue beetle. I liked Jaime enough in young justice TV series, but the character was given a raw deal death. In keeping with his characterization, yes, but still.
Comic book death. It was interesting, but the raw dealers are superman, wonder woman and the rest of the justice league. His death was noble in its own way, but still...
Which DC Captain Marvel are we talking about.
There's only one I know about...the REAL Captain Marvel...the one and only...Shazam!
If it weren't for foolish trademark laws, everyone would still know him as such.
He predates Marvel (it wasn't known as marvel till DECADES later), and their Captain Marvel by a LOOONG shot.
He was created in 1939/1940.
Of course, he's no stranger to copyright and trademarks...DC didn't originally own Captain Marvel, but had to buy the rights. They originally pursued the creators by calling him a copy of Superman (though to tell the truth, he was outselling superman...which is perhaps why the original suit came about).
Still, if you want to go by who should REALLY be called Captain Marvel by all rights...it should be...Shazam!
Which DC Captain Marvel are we talking about.
There's only one I know about...the REAL Captain Marvel...the one and only...Shazam!
If it weren't for foolish trademark laws, everyone would still know him as such.
He predates Marvel (it wasn't known as marvel till DECADES later), and their Captain Marvel by a LOOONG shot.
He was created in 1939/1940.
Of course, he's no stranger to copyright and trademarks...DC didn't originally own Captain Marvel, but had to buy the rights. They originally pursued the creators by calling him a copy of Superman (though to tell the truth, he was outselling superman...which is perhaps why the original suit came about).
Still, if you want to go by who should REALLY be called Captain Marvel by all rights...it should be...Shazam!
I've never really found the character that interesting. I thought he was well-used in Kingdom Come, and in the Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire Justice League. And I watched the live-action show as a kid, but he doesn't resonate for me. (Unlike, by contrast, the current Captain Marvel at Marvel.)
You obviously dig the character a lot. What is it that you like about him so much? What makes him work for you?
Much detail about the original Captain Marvel.
Thanks for answering and laying out his history. I knew most of the generalities, including the details about CC Beck's work and the tone of the earlier stuff. But thanks for going into deeper detail.
So for you, it's a combination of the specific supporting cast and rogue's gallery, primarily pre-DC, and the nature of the stories (more innocent and humorous?), and the central gimmick? Do I have that right?
Thanks for typing all of that out. If I ever get the opportunity, I'll look at some of the earlier stuff. I'm not much of a fan of the flying, muscly strong guy superhero archetype (outside of Megaton Man, which is a parody). Though I am a big fan of the first two Christopher Reeve Superman movies, and I like Supers in certain stories. (The idea of the Last Son of Krypton probably hooks me more deeply than Kid Becomes Powerful Superhero.) From DC, Flash, Green Arrow, and to a lesser extent Batman are more the ones I can dig, in terms of male superheroes. Generally, I'm more of a Marvel girl, with my comic roots going to Claremont's Uncanny X-Men and New Mutants. So I'm probably looking for different things out of the genre.
Jeff Smith did some work on Captain Marvel a couple years ago. I think that might have the sort of sensibility you prefer for the character. Shazam!: The Monster Society of Evil Four issue mini-series. Might be worth a look if you haven't read it yet.
As sunbeam stated.
One of the problems with Captain Marvel is in yesteryear, comics were consumed by adults and children, and Captain Marvel was directly marketed towards children.
In some ways, when you really explore it, Captain Marvel was much more complex a character than Superman, and maybe even Batman.
Here you have a child, that can become one of the most powerful figures in the universe...which is the dream of many children. However, when you really look at him, he is still a child with all the child's fallibilities.
What's more, is when he became a child, he was more vulnerable in ways than Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, or any adult, as only a child could be.
Which is something kids can relate to, but sometimes we forget that as adults.
AS comics seem to be more marketed towards adults these days then kids (how many kids do you see at the comics shops these days vs. adults?). The locations where kids would get comics (convenience stores, grocery store magazine racks, etc) largely do not carry them anymore.
And perhaps that's the problem with Captain Marvel to a degree in this modern day, it's more a character that is a child's dream, and one that many adults don't relate to.
However, when you get to the core character, I think there can be a LOT more complexity within Captain Marvel then many other characters.
Many of his foes are not the typical foes a Superman would engage in, but ones which directly attack his weaknesses (his mental and emotional states, the physical state when he's not an adult, etc) and originally (early on, before the modern age) some of his comics could be seen as being written deeper then his contemporary comicbooks.
If you'd like a really good take on the character of Captain Marvel/Shazam, watch the episodes of Justice League/Justice League Unlimited that he appeared in. His childlike idealism and his enthusiastic attempts to do the right thing - rather than the necessarily "mature" thing - are part of what really defined his character before his modern revamp. He really takes the League to task on what it means to be a hero and why he wanted to be one in the first place. (hint: It was to make a difference, as I mentioned hoping to see a return to with Convergence, up-thread)
If you'd like a really good take on the character of Captain Marvel/Shazam, watch the episodes of Justice League/Justice League Unlimited that he appeared in. His childlike idealism and his enthusiastic attempts to do the right thing - rather than the necessarily "mature" thing - are part of what really defined his character before his modern revamp. He really takes the League to task on what it means to be a hero and why he wanted to be one in the first place. (hint: It was to make a difference, as I mentioned hoping to see a return to with Convergence, up-thread)
liked him in justice League, public enemies and in young justice most of all. Didn't care for other incarnations in the slightest.
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Man, I loved the original Blue Beetle run with Jaime (never bothered with the New52 one. Haven't touched single DC book since the reboot.)
I gave the reboot a year. I bought about three quarter of the comics. Within 6 months, 6 had been cancelled and replaced with nothing spectacular. After a year, I had dropped everything except Action, Superman, Supergirl, and Legion of Super-Heroes & Legion Lost (both of which have been cancelled).
I miss the real DC Universe.