Goblin Squad Member
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I have tried this on several white bandits mobs (do bandits ever go higher than white?).
As long as I drop them on first hit with my trusty longbow, the others in the mob don't react and I can pick them off one by one.
Is this working as intended? Shouldnt't they notice something when the bodies begin to sum up?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope it is working as intended. I don't think it's an issue, as this is only on a few low level mobs. If you want to fight anything substantial you have to pull the whole group.
Mechanically the mob has to tell the other mobs it was hit, if it dies immediately, it can't tell.
I like it from the perspective of assassins picking everyone off one by one, without alerting others.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Unintended artifact of when the AI "calls for help" and shares threat: if it goes straight from unaware to dead, it seems to skip the whole step of informing other entities that they're under attack. Likely to change long term, but hasn't been a big enough deal to worry about it specifically.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unintended artifact of when the AI "calls for help" and shares threat: if it goes straight from unaware to dead, it seems to skip the whole step of informing other entities that they're under attack. Likely to change long term, but hasn't been a big enough deal to worry about it specifically.
When I drop the whole mob with area spells so they all die instantly non of them react either ... oh wait ...
Suggestion -- can we retain this feature for characters using stealth.
Would it be possible to make it depended on line of sight to the other mobs (i.e. the living mob needs to see dying mob to be alerted and does not react if is turned around) assuming there is some kind of arc of view for the mobs.
Or maybe add the trait <stealthy> on some attacks that would make instant kills made with them undetectable by associated mobs.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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Unlikely. Creatures you can one-shot are a low-level concept anyway; their HP scales up really quickly. It should be pretty hard to one-shot even a level 4 without a tremendous level difference and a crazy high damage factor attack.
Even if you could, we don't want to get in the habit of deliberately making the AI work dramatically differently than PvP opponents, and thus train you wrong. If you get the drop on a group of enemy players and one-shot one of them from stealth, the others are certainly not just going to ignore that their buddy died and keep on as if nothing happened. We don't want people to have a moment of "and I'll just use the attack I always start a fight with because it lets me instantly take one out with little chance of repercussion... why are they all charging right at me when I wasn't ready?" ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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May I ask how you're one-shotting them?
Likely using a longbow attack with a high damage factor against really low level goblins right outside Thornkeep. Basic Longbow Exploit can easily one shot most goblins, but it requires opportunity. The right attack and training to use a +1 or +2 weapon should easily get you there.
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Goblin Squad Member
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May I ask how you're one-shotting them?
As TEO AD says a +2 longbow will do it.
Also a +2 Diminishing staff with Wilting Surge @ 3 will see whole groups of gobbos and sometimes recruits/omegas just fall over.
Running up to things with a +2 Diminishing staff and Wraiths Cry @ 3 will see whole groups of gobbos/recruits/omegas just fall over.
Running up to things with a +2 longsword and Whirlwind @ 3 will also see whole groups of gobbos/recruits/omegas just fall over.
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Goblin Squad Member
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OK, thanks. I did know the basic exploit takes them out, but that's after you get their attention. I'll up my Overdraw.
remember feats must match weapon for max damage
T1 Hunters Longbow +0 - overdraw 1
T1 Hunters Longbow +1 - overdraw 2
T1 Hunters Longbow +2 - overdraw 3
T2 Hunters Longbow +2 - overdraw 4
T1 or T2 Hunters Longbow +3 - overdraw 5
Overdraw 3 with a +2 Longbow will one-shot low-level mobs
This. I do not believe it will 1-shot level 2 Mobs like Bandits, Bandit Archers and Wolves. But it will insta-kill all level 1 mobs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This. I do not believe it will 1-shot level 2 Mobs like Bandits, Bandit Archers and Wolves. But it will insta-kill all level 1 mobs.Overdraw 3 with a +2 Longbow will one-shot low-level mobs
For me it comes close. Leaves a few HP unless you crit.
Slotting archer role and armor focuses and getting your ranged BAB up may get you over the edge, especially if you used some sort of token to help.
Of course Wilting Surge @ 3 also comes close and leaves just a few HP on the whole mob.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now that I am rogue 8, should I drop my shortbow and start using a long bow? It's not like I need any more subterfuge points for a while. But then, I should also drop my short sword and take a heavy melee weapon, and drop my leather armour and take plate... When is a rogue not a rogue? When he's wielding a long sword, long bow and wearing plate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now that I am rogue 8, should I drop my shortbow and start using a long bow? It's not like I need any more subterfuge points for a while. But then, I should also drop my short sword and take a heavy melee weapon, and drop my leather armour and take plate... When is a rogue not a rogue? When he's wielding a long sword, long bow and wearing plate.
This is why multi-roles is the way to go. Once you have the Subterfuge you need for a while, switch to all fighter feats, weapons, armor as your primary. Your secondary weapon and feats in your action bar should be from the Cleric role. Equip the minor focus (forget the babe, but the free one), and train the feats for faster movement (passive and active) and a cure.
In my opinion the only fix that would make short bow have an advantage over long bow is if Run and Shoot worked (without rooting). You would be sacrificing the burst damage of the Long Bow for greater mobility but less damage for the Short Bow.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also keep in mind that ammo use will be in shortly. With the current recipes, a single arrow will likely be more valuable than the loot from low level goblins and bandits. I think the last time I checked (a while back), a crafted batch of arrows was only a fairly small number (like 5?). You'd basically need to loot something from every other low-level mob killed to make it worth the arrow consumption. I expect ranged farming to be a quite unprofitable endeavour.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Now that I am rogue 8, should I drop my shortbow and start using a long bow? It's not like I need any more subterfuge points for a while. But then, I should also drop my short sword and take a heavy melee weapon, and drop my leather armour and take plate... When is a rogue not a rogue? When he's wielding a long sword, long bow and wearing plate.This is why multi-roles is the way to go. Once you have the Subterfuge you need for a while, switch to all fighter feats, weapons, armor as your primary. Your secondary weapon and feats in your action bar should be from the Cleric role. Equip the minor focus (forget the babe, but the free one), and train the feats for faster movement (passive and active) and a cure.
In my opinion the only fix that would make short bow have an advantage over long bow is if Run and Shoot worked (without rooting). You would be sacrificing the burst damage of the Long Bow for greater mobility but less damage for the Short Bow.
Actually in the current state of the game you are better off fitting a holy symbol implement and lesser cure and taking a staff as your alternate weapon.
Unfortunately shortbow was nerfed a lot by ranging rooting. The change was meant to limit the effectiveness of longbow and staff but actually had more effect on shortbow, wand and cleric focus ranged.
Also keep in mind that ammo use will be in shortly. With the current recipes, a single arrow will likely be more valuable than the loot from low level goblins and bandits. I think the last time I checked (a while back), a crafted batch of arrows was only a fairly small number (like 5?). You'd basically need to loot something from every other low-level mob killed to make it worth the arrow consumption. I expect ranged farming to be a quite unprofitable endeavour.
Yep another reason to use a staff with AoE spells for your long range stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yep another reason to use a staff with AoE spells for your long range stuff.
AoE is better than single-target, but even a staff used for ranged goblin farming will consume charges/ammo at an alarming rate. I expect the standard farming to happen at melee range and usually involve whirlwind, cleave and similar melee AoEs.
Anyway, to get back to the OP, once ammo is in one-shot kills not drawing aggro will be a relatively minor issue imho.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yep another reason to use a staff with AoE spells for your long range stuff.AoE is better than single-target, but even a staff used for ranged goblin farming will consume charges/ammo at an alarming rate. I expect the standard farming to happen at melee range and usually involve whirlwind, cleave and similar melee AoEs.
Anyway, to get back to the OP, once ammo is in one-shot kills not drawing aggro will be a relatively minor issue imho.
My current goblin blitzing char carries a +2 diminishing staff and a +2 longsword.
The staff (using either ranged AoE (Wilting Surge) or run into melee and cast Wraith Cry) is in my experience about 20% faster than killing them with lunge and whirlwind. This is due to the charge time and the fact that there seems a delay with whirlwind you do not get with wraith cry. Both are substantially faster than picking off single targets with a bow, even if you one shot.
Note this is a very artificial comparison as knocking over level 1 gobbos at the rate of 15 or 20 a minute if you can find enough is not a normal activity you will do that often in game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My current goblin blitzing char carries a +2 diminishing staff and a +2 longsword.
The staff (using either ranged AoE (Wilting Surge) or run into melee and cast Wraith Cry) is in my experience about 20% faster than killing them with lunge and whirlwind.
As the only Long Blast Cantrip, and the only long-range Long Blast Attack, Shadow Blast is uniquely suited to the task of clearing camps of moderate level. It's utterly useless against Goblin Ghouls Escalations (the red Goblin Dogs don't die quickly enough, and once more than one starts hitting me it's all over). However, I was able to easily solo large camps in a 100% Ripping Chains escalation unless there were more than 4 Ripping Shamans.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As the only Long Blast Cantrip, and the only long-range Long Blast Attack, Shadow Blast is uniquely suited to the task of clearing camps of moderate level. It's utterly useless against Goblin Ghouls Escalations (the red Goblin Dogs don't die quickly enough, and once more than one starts hitting me it's all over). However, I was able to easily solo large camps in a 100% Ripping Chains escalation unless there were more than 4 Ripping Shamans.My current goblin blitzing char carries a +2 diminishing staff and a +2 longsword.
The staff (using either ranged AoE (Wilting Surge) or run into melee and cast Wraith Cry) is in my experience about 20% faster than killing them with lunge and whirlwind.
Interesting, its for a Psychic staff ( currently only have +2 in diminishing and charged) and does about half the DPS of Wilting Surge on paper but the long blast may make it handy for bigger camps, will get a +2 Psychic and try it. Thanks.
I was just a bit suprised that it worked so ... efficiently...
unintended evility.
I dream of good pve. Good pve has patrols, period!
Would also be cool to have some groups that had battle horns or something to aggro a wider range if you attacked them.
It's funny to imagine tho... a group of goblins sitting there, look to the side... it's bob... look to the side, bob is dead, wiggle your toes in some grass. Etc.
It's like a Leslie Nielsen movie.
I'd be interested in a mechanic that would initially spook a mob if you one-shotted someone, like make them scramble for a few seconds before they regained composure.
There are many interesting aggro ideas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I said, when the love comes to the AIs of the NPC, there going to be some habits to break...They're already much more interesting (with the better agro retention) than they were a month ago. And they're just going to get better.
Very true. I haven't seen anyone use the word "leash" in quite a while. That was a huge improvement, all by itself.
Now, let's see the next improvement!
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Goblin Squad Member
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So when ammo comes in Rogues will be nerfed even more
Yes. If it makes you feel any better, keep in mind that wizards, orison-oriented clerics and long bow fighters will be struggling, too. Still, you're right; it's going to hit rogues extra hard. We seriously need some dev love in the nest patch.