Hey,
I still rememeber that we beat the Final Villain "Karzoug the claimer" of RotR easily... Far to easily... I think he was 40 and we hit him with 107 (!!!!)... What a bash!
So my idea is to introduce
ONE-card-pack of 110 cards for JUST BANE cards ranging from adv. number 1 to 6.
Simply sell it at one card pack where for each adventure bane cards are wrapped in non-see-thru black plastic sleeve. So you open for each adventure it like a MTG booster, but no random cards.
So it is a hardcore difficulty card pack for experienced players...
My play group are experienced MTG player from the zero-hour on... And we like to play mage knight on tough levels... So there is a common wish that there may be some tougher banes for expert players .... Just one card pack of 110 cards which experts players may purchase optionally...
RotR we played with 2 additional locations plus all banes additionally increased by the adventure number... So there is a lot of room for much more difficult cards...
Instead of introducing house rules like above, paizo could make MORE money with providing officially a hardcore-expert-bane card pack...
What do you think?
Would you be interested in for WotR?
Interested in players and paizos opinion...
Keep the hardcore challenge coming!
Mike
Ps: if my ideas in the forum are bothering someone please let me know, i am just a innovative guy trying to improve PACG to its best...
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Considering that they've decreased the release period from 1 yr to 6 months plus adding a second set of scenarios (organized play) during that 6 month period, I think it would be a waste of resources. Honestly the biggest complaint I've been hearing is that after completing RotR, people want to continue playing their characters after deck 6. More of an option for reusing the RotR at a higher level rather than just a more difficult level.
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Am I interested in this? Yes.
However, this is one of those products that would sell so few that it would be a horrible idea for Paizo.
RotR was easier than some would have liked, yes. With S&S and Organized Play though, they definitely changed that and it isn't a problem really anymore. There is no reason to release a pack that wouldn't sell well anyways, for a set that is not even the newest one, and may possible be considered out dated and out of print as soon as WotR starts.
To be honest, I am really surprised that no one has put together an adventure deck 7 yet. With the Magic Set Editor + PACG templates, a little extended storyline, and some increased check numbers it seems doable. Opaque sleeves + Artscow and you could have an extended adventure for under $20.
Now the wheels are turning...how about a new role card at the beginning of adventure deck that would be more like dual classing...
I would not want to replay Rotr in hardcore mode....
No what i mean is right away together with the character addon deck, at the start of a new adventure path, release a 110 card pack with hardcore banes which you have to add to each upcoming adventure...
So some customization...
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I would not want to replay Rotr in hardcore mode....
No what i mean is right away together with the character addon deck, at the start of a new adventure path, release a 110 card pack with hardcore banes which you have to add to each upcoming adventure...
So some customization...
I think what we're getting at is that there are ways to already customize a set to make it harder without putting out additional cards that would need to be researched and playtested and printed and sit on the store shelf because we don't think a lot would be sold. The idea of alternate "nightmare" banes would probably not be a big seller. Something like a set of additional class boons to fill in holes from the class decks probably would.
Something like a set of additional class boons to fill in holes from the class decks probably would.I would not want to replay Rotr in hardcore mode....
No what i mean is right away together with the character addon deck, at the start of a new adventure path, release a 110 card pack with hardcore banes which you have to add to each upcoming adventure...
So some customization...
What do you mean by that? Just buy the class decks and you will get the class boons!
I dont get it... Which holes? Which boons?
I think he's referring to the kind of thing we were discussing in this thread. It's something that is more related to OP-style Class Deck play, not the mixing-the-class-deck-in-with-the-box Adventure Path style play.
But this style of deck could also have other applications like having a firearms deck that you can mix with Runelords to play a gunslinger without having to mix in S&S boons. You wouldn't even really need to own a copy of S&S, just get the firearms boon deck and download the PDF character sheets.
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Where I was heading is that Paizo and Lone Shark have a limited amount of resources (time, people, etc.) when developing for this game. Right now, they're on a six month cycle with both product (base Adventure Path) and scenarios (organized play) in an Adventure Path. That's pretty tight when it comes down to development, playtesting, working in new mechanics (ships in S&S), printing (which there were plenty of issues prior to launch and afterwards), and feedback. Then you toss in the class decks as well.
There are a lot of moving parts. Plus I haven't heard people saying that S&S is easy either in the Adventure Path nor in the organized play. Some people felt RotR was easy and I think this is where you're coming from with the idea of hardcore banes. But a product like that would need to be developed from scratch (so not to duplicate current banes), playtested and printed. I would think that based on demand for a product like that, it wouldn't be a big seller.
However, as some of us have talked about in the Organized Play board (as linked in pluvia33's post above), there are a few holes in some of the class decks where the cards don't necessarily allow for full development of some roles and characters. A companion boon deck of currently printed boons would be helpful to fix that situation. That might be a better use of resources.
So while I think your idea is an interesting concept, people that have felt that RotR was too easy are doing a Nightmare mode to compensate. You could develop your own (bane) cards using the templates and tools mentioned in other threads. Then do the playtesting and then come back to Paizo ... just a thought.
A special hardcore bane 110 cards deck is simply derived:
Take the same henchmen and villain and just increase their powers and abilities.
So for 1 to 6th adventure you each have
(8 henchmen plus 2 villain) x 6 adventures = 60 cards
Just increase power and some ability.
Then you have 50 cards remaining for 6 adventures..
So that mean per adventure another 8 banes.
Here simply introduce a bigger version of existing banes, e.g.
If you have a "shark", then introduce "great shark" with increased power and one more ability.
There is no need in playtesting as you know when you go for the standard playtesting what is your die roll for that villain and henchmen.
E.g. Kazourg the claimer, final rotr villain is standard 40. we rolled 107.
So just introduce the same card with 80 plus 1 more ability. very simple. Easy and fast done and more money for paizo.
As you got the pictures, and the templates ... This is done in 2 working days when you did playtesting of the standard path and know what were the die rolls at the henchmen and villains....
I would definetly buy the hardcore-card-pack-addon... Or are you a whimp?
It seems as though the devs have hit a sweet spot in S&S where the difficulty level is increased enough that you are forced to expend resources throughout the course of each scenario making it harder to make some of those anticlimatic rolls at the end. There are still some situations where it may happen, but I'm finding the clock to be a greater factor in the regular game and a major factor in organized play.
I'd rather the team continue to try to focus on giving us different variants of in game play and continue with the class decks (with 31 iconic classes there is a long way to go).
Even of more importance than generating more content is to be able to consistenly deliver the content that currently exists before trying to do even more.
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A special hardcore bane 110 cards deck is simply derived:
Take the same henchmen and villain and just increase their powers and abilities.
So for 1 to 6th adventure you each have(8 henchmen plus 2 villain) x 6 adventures = 60 cards
Just increase power and some ability.Then you have 50 cards remaining for 6 adventures..
So that mean per adventure another 8 banes.
Here simply introduce a bigger version of existing banes, e.g.
If you have a "shark", then introduce "great shark" with increased power and one more ability.There is no need in playtesting as you know when you go for the standard playtesting what is your die roll for that villain and henchmen.
E.g. Kazourg the claimer, final rotr villain is standard 40. we rolled 107.
So just introduce the same card with 80 plus 1 more ability. very simple. Easy and fast done and more money for paizo.As you got the pictures, and the templates ... This is done in 2 working days when you did playtesting of the standard path and know what were the die rolls at the henchmen and villains....
I would definetly buy the hardcore-card-pack-addon... Or are you a whimp?
Again, a waste of resources overall. If you're going to reuse the same artwork, monsters, etc. Then homebrew it and you're done.
How many people are going to buy a product like this if you're recycling what they have with different numbers? Would I buy it? No way. Waste of my money if I already have the product. And yes, there is playtesting. The developers are not going to throw together a product that people are going to purchase, use, curse at for imbalances. And you realize there would have to be polling whether there is an actual need for a product.
I know you think it is simply more money for Paizo. But if the demand isn't there, Paizo is out the setup cost for said deck plus there's got to be minimum quantity published. They'd be better of as a Print-on-Demand item if it is recycled material as DriveThruCards.
I'd rather they invest their time and money into new stuff instead of recycled.
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It seems as though the devs have hit a sweet spot in S&S where the difficulty level is increased enough that you are forced to expend resources throughout the course of each scenario making it harder to make some of those anticlimatic rolls at the end. There are still some situations where it may happen, but I'm finding the clock to be a greater factor in the regular game and a major factor in organized play.
I'd rather the team continue to try to focus on giving us different variants of in game play and continue with the class decks (with 31 iconic classes there is a long way to go).
Even of more importance than generating more content is to be able to consistenly deliver the content that currently exists before trying to do even more.
We're finding the clock is also against us more in organized play. We're wasting too many resources procuring items yet we need them. And there seem to be more monsters and barriers in ratio to boons in S&S.
I want more class decks and possibly that boon companion deck!
Additional boon decks ... Well, i dont know... Then you can customize your whole class deck by your own! This doesnt make any sense to me.
Take one character card and take all the boon you would like to own from Rotr and SS...
You already have all boons in the two adventure paths available...
>>>So i would not buy an additional boon deck! Now every character got its special 110 cards... That is enough! No customization... This is unfair for OTHER OP players who do not have the special boon decks...
BUT a hardcore BAnE deck for each adventure path... Would be nice!
There you have a customization which concerns ALL players in the same way... They ALL are facing the SAME evil with their Class decks....
I personally don't like the idea of a single boon expansion. I don't think it would be significant to fill in all of the holes that exist for characters in the class decks. As I mentioned in the other thread, I'd rather have a variety of smaller more specific boon expansions and limit the number expansion decks a single OP character can use (likely just one, maybe up to two). I think a little more customization is something that the organized play program needs and having more official cards that can be used with the class decks is one of the only ways you can do this. The only realistic possibility for more customization with what we have right now is opening up some kind of deck multiclassing system.
The mention of these expansions being "unfair" or not to other players who may only want to buy a single class deck was also brought up in that thread and is something I totally disagree with. zeroth_hour made a very good point in that thread about it being no different from the different rule books that are available to RPG players in PFS only if they own a copy.
And comparing this hypothetical boon expansion to a hardcore bane expansion is completely different as what you propose would have absolutely no applications for organized play.
And comparing this hypothetical boon expansion to a hardcore bane expansion is completely different as what you propose would have absolutely no applications for organized play.
Of course will a hardcore bane expansion have a application for organized play:
As I wrote above, you need around 55 to 60 cards for the hardcore henchmen and villains - so lets say 1 card pack...
So you can still use the next 55 cards (as 110 are in a package) to bring some new villains and henchmen for e.g. Organized play :-) so you will have more difference between OP and base set game play. WOW!
The additional boons for class decks (to fill minor holes) you may collect from adventures paths you own, Here paizo may simply give out a pdf-list of boons which are eligible for your particular class deck use.
You do not have to print the same boons
- in the base set,
- in the class decks and then AGAIN
- in a special boon collection pack!!!
--> How many "Frost bow +1" do you need? Damn.
Organized Play has to be the same for everyone, and anything like the deck you want can't be a required purchase, or else you're going to anger a lot of people and turn a lot away from Organized Play.
Well, the "hardcore bane and OP bane" package of 110 cards is then obviously mandatory for Organized play ...
Have you played the OP scenarios using the OP rules? I don't think anything using hardcore rules of any sort would be consistently winnable.
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Organized Play has to be the same for everyone, and anything like the deck you want can't be a required purchase, or else you're going to anger a lot of people and turn a lot away from Organized Play.Well, the "hardcore bane and OP bane" package of 110 cards is then obviously mandatory for Organized play ...
So you're requiring another $20 deck to be purchased for OP? Why?
Please let me know why organized play needs harder banes.
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There is no need for increased difficulty in OP, it is challenging enough as it is. Try playing a 5 or 6 person game of Ghosts of the Deep Myfly and get back to us on how easy you found it.
The only thing that I think would work would be to create special scenarios that are only for cons or game days that offer an interesting scenario reward if completed, but that is a whole different ball of string.
Organized Play has to be the same for everyone, and anything like the deck you want can't be a required purchase, or else you're going to anger a lot of people and turn a lot away from Organized Play.Well, the "hardcore bane and OP bane" package of 110 cards is then obviously mandatory for Organized play ...So you're requiring another $20 deck to be purchased for OP? Why?
Please let me know why organized play needs harder banes.
A) In your solution EVERY player has to pay 20 usd for his class deck AND 20 usd for special boon package. So every player has to pay 40 USD to get started. This will unlikely happen as then the step to start OP for new players will be more difficult.
B) In my solution EVERY player has to buy just one class deck 20 USD for OP thats it. And it stays that way as it already is. Optionally you may use some selected boon cards from the LAST adventure path (these are marked by the last adv. Path symbol and could be easily recognized among the new adv path cards) listed in a paizo-given pdf-file to fill your slight holes. The ORganized Play Game store has to take care about the base set, adventure decks and ONE additional "hardcore bane and OP bane" card pack. If you divide this further investment of 20 usd by four players for the complete adventure path it is almost NO RISE in COSTS and you will get the NEW BENEFIT of NEW SPECIAL BANE cards for OP everybody will be facing !!! (In this case you will get the 55 hardcore bane cards for the standard base set game play for free of charge as only 55 OP bane cards required here).
>>> WOW this would be amazing!
>>> More variance !!
>>> More fun!!!
>>> Better OP quality!!!
>>> This would make OP more attractive!!!
>>>> More popular!!!
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You name it...
A) In your solution EVERY player has to pay 20 usd for his class deck AND 20 usd for special boon package. So every player has to pay 40 USD to get started. This will unlikely happen as then the step to start OP for new players will be more difficult.
No. Just no. That is not at all what our discussion was about. Additional boon decks would be optional. You don't have to buy them to play. Many characters work just fine with their class decks alone. It's just that some specific characters could use more support when using specific powers (taking Zarlova's "You gain the skill Arcane: Intelligence +2" power for example has very limited use in OP with just the Cleric Class Deck).
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To be honest, based on my local OP community, not one person would likely find this more amazing, enjoy more variance, find it more fun, provide better quality, make it more attractive, or cause more people to play.
I don't want to sound like I am unsupportive of cool new ideas, but this just doesn't seem like something I would ever want to try to run locally.
Repeating the question, have you tried any of the OP scenarios yet? They are very challenging as they are. It is quite likely the hard core mode you are looking for.
If you want to make a custom set and put it up on BGG I would be happy to download it and give it a whirl at home, but there is already a large enough failure rate in OP that something like this seems excessive and unnecessary.
This is beside the point that the whole idea of OP is for EVERYONE to have the same experience. Anything that is not included in the main box is going to only be partially supported, and if one group anywhere doesn't buy in to this optional make-it-too-hard-and-frustrating-to-enjoy plan, the model breaks and you are no longer doing OP.
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Actually, the boon deck they want isn't mandatory. It's 100% optional if you want them.
Have you played Organized Play? Or S&S? S&S is a good difficulty level, and OP is even harder. There's a reason they say it is for experienced players and those who already know the game.
This would not make OP more attractive OR more popular. All it would do is make it more expensive and add more difficulty to something that we're already seeing kill multiple experienced players. The point of OP is that the players can play with one single purchase, and the host doesn't need anything other than the standard product. It certainly wouldn't add quality to OP, it would make it much, much worse. As stated before, OP is already a challenge, killing experienced players. It doesn't need to be made even harder.
It sounds more to me like you haven't played past Runelords yet. Yea, it was fairly easy. However, S&S was bumped up to be made harder, and OP as well.
In my opinion, requiring it would not only make OP less attractive, but it would destroy it.
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A) In your solution EVERY player has to pay 20 usd for his class deck AND 20 usd for special boon package. So every player has to pay 40 USD to get started. This will unlikely happen as then the step to start OP for new players will be more difficult.
No, the boon deck is optional, not required. It only fills in the holes in the class decks like the lack of serious ranged (dexterity-based) weapons for Harsk's Arbalist role. The requirement is the $20 class deck. Period.
B) In my solution EVERY player has to buy just one class deck 20 USD for OP thats it. And it stays that way as it already is. The ORganized Play Game store has to take care about the base set, adventure decks and ONE additional "hardcore bane and OP bane" card pack. If you divide this investment by four players for the complete adventure path it is almost NO RISE in COSTS and you will get the NEW BENEFIT of NEW SPECIAL BANE cards for OP!!!
WOW this would be amazing!
More variance !!
More fun!!!
Better OP quality!!!
This would make OP more attractive!!!
More popular!!!
They'd have to purchase an additional bane deck for each set. Not everyone is comfortable asking players for money. And that is for extra base sets, add-on decks and adventure decks.
No one has complained about the banes in Organized Play. In fact, I think harder banes would make OP unplayable.
Lastly, have you found that S&S and its banes are too easy? Have you played any of the scenarios of OP? Is that too easy for you?
A) In your solution EVERY player has to pay 20 usd for his class deck AND 20 usd for special boon package. So every player has to pay 40 USD to get started. This will unlikely happen as then the step to start OP for new players will be more difficult.No. Just no. That is not at all what our discussion was about. Additional boon decks would be optional. You don't have to buy them to play. Many characters work just fine with their class decks alone. It's just that some specific characters could use more support when using specific powers (taking Zarlova's "You gain the skill Arcane: Intelligence +2" power for example has very limited use in OP with just the Cleric Class Deck).
Why dont you use your OWN RotR and SS boon cards for the WotR adventure path as hole filler for certain class decks? There is NO need for additional boons ... There are plenty already available in the adventure paths...
Please do not print new boon which we already have ...
It is a waste of paper resources!
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Why dont you use your OWN RotR and SS boon cards for the WotR adventure path as hole filler for certain class decks? There is NO need for additional boons ... There are plenty already available in the adventure paths...
Please do not print new boon which we already have ...
It is a waste of paper resources!
Because the rules of the OP campaign do not allow you to use any cards from the other sets for your class decks. The idea is for everyone to have access to the same cards without allowing people to buy the base sets to make more powerful characters than the person next to them who only bought the class deck. This is not MTG or Netrunner.
A) In your solution EVERY player has to pay 20 usd for his class deck AND 20 usd for special boon package. So every player has to pay 40 USD to get started. This will unlikely happen as then the step to start OP for new players will be more difficult.No, the boon deck is optional, not required. It only fills in the holes in the class decks like the lack of serious ranged (dexterity-based) weapons for Harsk's Arbalist role. The requirement is the $20 class deck. Period.
B) In my solution EVERY player has to buy just one class deck 20 USD for OP thats it. And it stays that way as it already is. The ORganized Play Game store has to take care about the base set, adventure decks and ONE additional "hardcore bane and OP bane" card pack. If you divide this investment by four players for the complete adventure path it is almost NO RISE in COSTS and you will get the NEW BENEFIT of NEW SPECIAL BANE cards for OP!!!
WOW this would be amazing!
More variance !!
More fun!!!
Better OP quality!!!
This would make OP more attractive!!!
More popular!!!
They'd have to purchase an additional bane deck for each set. Not everyone is comfortable asking players for money. And that is for extra base sets, add-on decks and adventure decks.
No one has complained about the banes in Organized Play. In fact, I think harder banes would make OP unplayable.
Lastly, have you found that S&S and its banes are too easy? Have you played any of the scenarios of OP? Is that too easy for you?
Yes. yes. Yes. [i edited my last post, please check for changes.]
OP can become with new bane you have never met before MORE interesting, that is my message. It is boring to have absolutely the same card stock of banes... IMO!|
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MyFly, I understand you're adamant about the new bane deck but you haven't made a case why S&S or OP would benefit from this product. Nor how Paizo would profit from this product. Again, are you finding either or both S&S and OP scenarios easy?
And if you're talking about recycling current banes with upped numbers, then there are community-use templates that you can use to create such banes. There are places online that you can purchase card stock to print on. Make them for your group if you're convinced you need them, then you could check with Paizo about putting them up on someplace like BGG. Again, I could see this as a Print-on-Demand product on DriveThruCards if there was interest.
Because the rules of the OP campaign do not allow you to use any cards from the other sets for your class decks. The idea is for everyone to have access to the same cards without allowing people to buy the base sets to make more powerful characters than the person next to them who only bought the class deck. This is not MTG or Netrunner.Why dont you use your OWN RotR and SS boon cards for the WotR adventure path as hole filler for certain class decks? There is NO need for additional boons ... There are plenty already available in the adventure paths...
Please do not print new boon which we already have ...
It is a waste of paper resources!
This is absolutely what i AM saying:
- Please DO NOT introduce, new boon card packs optionally for everyone... (No more powerful characters then the person next to them who only bought the class deck).
- make OP more interesting with new banes ( benefit: OP special banes)
- at the same time hardcore banes could be released for the base set game play for experienced players (benefit: current base set)
Because the rules of the OP campaign do not allow you to use any cards from the other sets for your class decks. The idea is for everyone to have access to the same cards without allowing people to buy the base sets to make more powerful characters than the person next to them who only bought the class deck. This is not MTG or Netrunner.Why dont you use your OWN RotR and SS boon cards for the WotR adventure path as hole filler for certain class decks? There is NO need for additional boons ... There are plenty already available in the adventure paths...
Please do not print new boon which we already have ...
It is a waste of paper resources!
And to add on to this, you can't ever use S&S boons in an OP class deck, even if they wanted to add it to the rules for organized play, because removing all S&S banner cards from your deck is a very important part of the end-of-scenario process. Letting players use S&S cards would cause way too many problems and extra book keeping.
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This is absolutely what i AM saying:- Please DO NOT introduce, new boon card packs optionally for everyone...
- make OP more interesting with new banes ( OP special banes)
- at the same time hardcore banes could be released for the base set game play for experienced players
I will chat with you some more once you have tried some OP scenarios, because it is obvious that you have not. Most of the scenarios do exactly what you are asking for, modifying banes to make them harder or requiring more strategy, and in one case printing an entirely new boon card, exactly as you are demanding. All of this is included in the weekly scenarios and do not require wasted resources on the part of Paizo making something that almost nobody would buy. Adding 40 to the difficulty of a card you already have is not variance.
The OP system is not broken, and it does not need to be made harder to make it more enjoyable. Please consider actually playing the game before you continue insisting on how it needs to be changed.
Hard core mode I support, Fantasy Flight Games has introduced this concept as a print on demand product, but it is designed solely for the optional enjoyment of players at home, and has nothing to do with an organized play structure, it just won't ever work.
The model for OP is to get buckets of people paying 20 bucks, instead of a handful paying 300 bucks. There is no way that some people can fairly add cards from their home base sets and be on the same power level as people who do not have base sets at home. Your idea defeats the entire purpose of the class deck system. That is a pay to win system, and would drive away most of the player base.
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This is absolutely what i AM saying:
- Please DO NOT introduce, new boon card packs optionally for everyone... (No more powerful characters then the person next to them who only bought the class deck).
- make OP more interesting with new banes ( benefit: OP special banes)
- at the same time hardcore banes could be released for the base set game play for experienced players (benefit: current base set)
1) If you're pushing for an additional bane deck to be created then be courteous enough to allow others to push for a boon deck. If you have actually looked at all the class decks and the rules of upgrades, you'd understand why what you're stating in the first point wouldn't happen.
2) You can't enforce facilitators for organized play to have to purchase an additional item like the banes nor can you allow some to play with and some to play without. This product would not work with OP.
3) You still haven't provided reasons why the hardcore banes are needed for S&S yet. Have you guys been breezing through S&S scenarios?
Pulvia wrote:
And to add on to this, you can't ever use S&S boons in an OP class deck, even if they wanted to add it to the rules for organized play, because removing all S&S banner cards from your deck is a very important part of the end-of-scenario process. Letting players use S&S cards would cause way too many problems and extra book keeping.
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1) When you play SS OP: Specific RotR boon cards COULD BE allowed to fill the holes if there are any.
When you play WotR OP: rotr and SS boons COULD BE allowed. (Only to fill the holes if any).
Conclusion: you could ALWAYS distinguish the "old" boons forom the current adventure path by the top left corner symbol, right ?
Got it? This is to fill the boon holes.
2) And a different idea is the hardcore bane for base set game play and special bane cards for OP....
>>> More variance!
>>> More surprise!
>>> More interesting!
1) When you play SS OP: Specific RotR boon cards are allowed to fill the holes if there are any.
When you play WotR OP: rotr and SS boons are allowed. (Only to fill the holes if any).
Conclusion: you could ALWAYS distinguish the "old" boons forom the current adventure path by the top left corner symbol, right ?
Got it? This is to fill the boon holes.
So instead of needing to spend $12-$20 to fill the holes in my class deck concept, I'll instead need to spend $160 to get Runelords and all of it's adventure decks?? No thank you.
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1) When you play SS OP: Specific RotR boon cards are allowed to fill the holes if there are any.
When you play WotR OP: rotr and SS boons are allowed. (Only to fill the holes if any).
Conclusion: you could ALWAYS distinguish the "old" boons forom the current adventure path by the top left corner symbol, right ?
Got it? This is to fill the boon holes.
2) And a different idea is the hardcore bane for base set game play and special bane cards for OP....
>>> More variance!
>>> More surprise!
>>> More interesting!
1) That is illegal in OP. Doesn't make the class deck portable. Please review the guide book.
2) I think it's time for me to walk away from this thread as it is just getting me more frustrated trying to understand why the current product or future product would need an item you are asking for. Especially when it seems like you haven't played it yet and basing your concept on the previous set.
So instead of needing to spend $12-$20 to fill the holes in my class deck concept, I'll instead need to spend $160 to get Runelords and all of it's adventure decks?? No thank you.1) When you play SS OP: Specific RotR boon cards are allowed to fill the holes if there are any.
When you play WotR OP: rotr and SS boons are allowed. (Only to fill the holes if any).
Conclusion: you could ALWAYS distinguish the "old" boons forom the current adventure path by the top left corner symbol, right ?
Got it? This is to fill the boon holes.
I dont think there arr BIG holes... And anyway if you are a PACG subscriber, you already GOT RotR :-)...
If there are 3 holes in ONE class deck this could be also done by 3 free-of-charge promo cards with the release of the new class decks... Then you will get some promo cards when purchasing the 7 NEW class decks directly at paizo.If there are HUGE holes, please send back your class deck and complain at the customer service... What i do not think will happen and it would not be appropriate...
Different characters have differenent talents and weaknesses, not every character could hold the same crossbow at the same expereince level....
You got to let go ;-))) to get your spcial dream character
But filling some small holes with promo cards abailable with the next class deck purchase would MAKE YOU FINaLlY HAPpY, right ;-))) ?????
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However, more variance, more surprise and more interesting gameplay is worth the small investment of 15 usd for the wHOLE adventure path, right?
Don't assume things. I only ever played RotR during the original playtest and through a friend's copy of the game. That friend has sense moved away. I began my subscription with S&S.
You seem to be measuring "holes" in a weird way, like there are specific, magic cards that will fill the holes in the class decks. You can't just be like, "okay Agna, here are 3-7 more offhand cards for you. You're happy now, right?" No, trying to fill gaps with promo cards is a horrible idea. You would need more ranger offhand cards, more good ranger ranged weapons, arcane-only spells for clerics, more bludgeoning and polearm weapons for the fighter, etc.
And no, there are plenty of surprises and interesting gameplay that can already be accomplished with S&S and how the OP scenarios are being written. A bane deck is not needed at all.
You seem to be measuring "holes" in a weird way, like there are specific, magic cards that will fill the holes in the class decks. You can't just be like, "okay Agna, here are 3-7 more offhand cards for you. You're happy now, right?" No, trying to fill gaps with promo cards is a horrible idea. You would need more ranger offhand cards, more good ranger ranged weapons, arcane-only spells for clerics, more bludgeoning and polearm weapons for the fighter, etc.
So you are saying some of the class decks are completely crappy ???
Then according your opinion, Paizo should send us new, free-of-charge corrected class decks?And just to make us happy for all that class deck trouble caused, release a brand new
" hardcore bane cards for base set game play and more special banes for OP" card package.
Finally, we are all happy :-) and christmas may come....
I hope I don't come off as rude but... MyFly, you did not just tell someone else to let go.
Well, i am german... May be i missed the point as i am not a native speaker.
So what i mean is that the class decks cannnot fulfill everybodies dreams...Paizo and Mike designed it and now they are as they are....
I bought all the class decks.... But just played one and was happy till now.
So i missed some holes ....
So you are saying some of the class decks are completely crappy ???
Then according your opinion, Paizo should send us new, free-of-charge corrected class decks?
When did I say that?? The class decks are fine for most uses. It's just hard to fully utilize certain concepts within the class decks. If you decide to stay away from them in organized play, the class decks work without a problem.
I just spoke out against Paizo giving free-of-charge corrections. That was your suggestion.
I know how the class decks were designed and they do work for the most part as intended. What we are asking for is just more versatility. Basically the Card Game equivalent to having more books with character options in the RPG version of PFS. It's something that makes logical sense to us and could be good for the organized play system as it could let there be more character variety and more opportunity for Paizo to make money without players feeling forced into buying the extra content as, again, just buying a single class deck would still be a perfectly viable option for OP participation.
The thing is I consume all PACG.... And i do not want to buy the same crossbow as in Rotr and Ss again in a new paper box called boon box.
If the are design mistakes in the class decks then there must be a customer friendly solution such buy one update class pack which holds all upated class deck cards and the buyer will get a hardcore bane card deck for free ...
We now accumulated enough posts to become a visible thread for paizo...
Lets wait what Vic says....