Suggested revision for dazzled status


Homebrew and House Rules


I've never been happy with the "dazzled" status, which seems to me it does so little it might as well not exist. A -1 to hit and to sight-based Perception checks? Wooooo.
My suggestion: have it give a miss chance instead. Could be as small as a 10% chance, but that would be potentially worth bothering with. I'd also make it stack with other effects that give a miss chance, like blur or concealment in obscuring mist.
If ever Pathfinder 2.0 comes out, I at least would like to see this change, and I'm thinking of house-ruling it in the meantime. What do other people think? Am I missing some game design consideration that would make this a bad idea?


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Kirthfinder did this. Here are the different levels:

Minor: Dazzled. The -1 to attacks and Perception rolls cited in the Core rules is so minor as to be hardly worth tracking; instead, the dazzled condition now applies partial concealment (20% miss chance) to everything the afflicted creature sees. In addition, the penalty to Perception checks is increased to -4.
Severe: Blinded. The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to AC, loses its Dex bonus to AC (if any), and takes a –4 penalty on physical skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against the blinded character. Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone.
Critical: Senseless (blinded and deafened; cannot smell or taste; has no tactile awareness). A senseless creature cannot use special senses such as blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, and has no sense of balance (falls prone). It is helpless and cannot take actions.

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I had the same track of mind as Kirth. I found it strange there's a condition that grants total concealment to everything, but not a lesser form of it that grants normal concealment.

Verdant Wheel

i like your 10% figure - it fits better with the relative 'weight' the Dazzled condition currently holds (compared to 20%). remember that this is cantrip status, and 10% statistically translates to -2.

ought the 'miss chance' apply to Perception checks?

maybe flare offers a re-save every round now?


@Kryx, what sorts of attacks or situations did Kirthfinder suggest would cause "critical dazzling"? That's interesting. Though I think I could still be content with dazzled staying pretty minor (just not a piddly -1).


A standard action in order to make the creature miss 20% of the time still isn't that great. It's ok CC, but nothing amazing imo.

However I would probably make Flare match the psionic Dazzle.

Now when we start talking about Blinding Flash which is a swift action then things start to get a bit more questionable.

@Cleanthes: It's actually not specified in the introduction, spells, feats, or skills. I have no idea. I believe it would only be triggered by a scaling up on blinded. It's a question for Kirth himself.


It might be an easier route to simple have dazzle be 10% concealment and then have a medium condition between dazzled and blinded that is 20% (patial concealment).

Make blinding flash and flare inflict dazzled, have the Dazzle power inflict the medium condition. Allow scaling from Dazzled to medium condition, but not to blinded.

That sounds fairly appropriate to me.


Cleanthes wrote:
@Kryx, what sorts of attacks or situations did Kirthfinder suggest would cause "critical dazzling"?

In general, minor conditions can be imposed by 1st level spells, or by successful standard-action attacks made by a BAB +1 combatant with the appropriate [Strike] feat.

  • Moderate conditions usually require 3rd level spells or +6 BAB strikes (combat feats in Kirthfinder scale by BAB).
  • Severe conditions usually require 5th level spells or +11 BAB strikes.
  • Critical conditions are generally imposed by 7th level spells or BAB +16 strikes that inflict enough damage to the relevant governing attribibute to reduce it to zero (Wisdom, in the case of sensory conditions).

    That said, some condition tracks can be scaled up by repeatedly being affected (e.g., shaken-frightened-panicked-cowering).


  • Kryx wrote:
    It might be an easier route to simple have dazzle be 10% concealment and then have a medium condition between dazzled and blinded that is 20% (patial concealment).

    That's totally do-able. One thing you'd have to do to maintain consistency is to change the blindness spell from 2nd/3rd to 5th level (not unreasonable, given that the effects are permanent).

    Verdant Wheel

    Dazzled - 10%
    Blurred - 20%
    Blinded - 50%

    (after removing from the running blearied, obfuscated, obscured, purblinded, and other strange words...)

    Verdant Wheel

    should I let my PCs roll Stealth against a foe who is Dazzled, then?

    Scarab Sages

    Dazzled always felt very much like it should be the result of a successful save, not a failed one.

    You save vs. a spell that would otherwise blind you. Dazzled.

    Though I do think that dazzle remains situationally good at most levels. A -1 to hit can make a big difference. If a monster needs to roll an 18 to hit your fighter, now it needs to roll a 19, reducing the theoretical damage over time by 33%. Against monsters with several attacks, this can result in a real reduction in damage every round. It can also often take an enemy's secondary attacks from a 10% chance to hit, to crit fishin' for 20's.

    I'm not arguing it's /good/ I am just saying that people often underestimate the usefulness of a -1 penalty to things like attack rolls.

    EDIT: Not allowing dazzled targets to inflict precision damage seems like a pretty cool idea, actually. It's pretty situational then, but something every wizard would want to keep memorized just in case.

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