I'm looking for a feat


Advice

Shadow Lodge

I went through the pre and didn't find what I'm looking for. I'd like to know if there are any feats that grant an arcane bonded item to non wizards. I know there are archetypes but I need a feat.

Edit: never mind I found a way to do what I want without a feat.

The build is a pathfinder/3.5 crossover
Rogue Knife Master/Arcanist Blade Adept/Daggerspell Mage
I will be taking the bloodline development exploit at level 3 for arcane bloodline so that I can use a pair of bonded daggers.

Shadow Lodge

Eldritch heritage, Arcane


You'll need Skill Focus (Any Knowledge), and ELdritch Heritage: Arcane. It can come online as of 3rd lvl

Shadow Lodge

Thanks, found a way to have 2 bonded items without feat use!

Shadow Lodge

Master of Shadows wrote:
Thanks, found a way to have 2 bonded items without feat use!

You can never have 2 bonded items as far as i know, because it says on the description.

Shadow Lodge

Not that I could find

Paizo.com/prd Arcane Bond wrote:

Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, wizards form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This bond can take one of two forms: a familiar or a bonded object. A familiar is a magical pet that enhances the wizard's skills and senses and can aid him in magic, while a bonded object is an item a wizard can use to cast additional spells or to serve as a magical item. Once a wizard makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed. Rules for bonded items are given below, while rules for familiars are at the end of this section.

Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard's level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's opposition schools (see arcane school).

A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats). If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.

If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.


Just curious what 2 ways to get one did you find? I could be interested in getting one for one of my characters.


Having two bonded daggers screws you hard. According to the rules of the bonded item, a weapon has to be held in your hand to avoid the concentration check. If you're holding a dagger in each hand... you're kind of screwed out of somatic components. You either have to Still Spell everything or you can't cast.

You might be better off just asking your GM if your bonded item could manifest as a pair of daggers? That way you could just hold one and still be able to cast.

Shadow Lodge

The 2 ways are the sword bond ability of the arcanist blade adept, and the bloodline development with arcane bloodline I would have to take it at 5th level arcanist though.
As for being screwed, well it just has to be held, not wielded. I will hold both in one hand if I need to cast a spell. At least until I get my first level of the PRC. 3.5's daggerspell mage gets the ability to ignore the free hand requirement of somatic components as long as he is wielding daggers.

Shadow Lodge

What you are suggesting wont work

Sword Bond (Su): At 1st level, a blade adept develops a bond with a blade and infuses it with arcane power. This ability works like a wizard's arcane bond ability save that the blade adept must bond to a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon. Additionally, the blade adept gains proficiency with the weapon if it is a simple or martial weapon. This ability replaces the arcanist exploits gained at 1st and 9th levels.

Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.

Shadow Lodge

The bolded section does not prevent you from having a second, and I don't have any wizard levels so the portion of the paragraph referencing wizard levels is irrelevant.

Shadow Lodge

It doesnt prevent it, but id doesnt allow it, it specfically state the features stack for powers, meaning you dont get two, instead you make it more powerful


Why do you need two daggers?


If he had two actual Bonded Items, Elemental would be correct. However, what he's actually going for is a Black Blade and a Bonded Item, which is a bit different. The Black Blade specifically precludes a Familiar but not a Bonded Item-- though of course, as an intelligent dagger it might not appreciate you spending so much time with that other piece of trash.

This does assume that come Arcanist 3 when your original Bonded dagger becomes a Black Blade it's no longer a Bonded Item. If it's instead a Bonded Black Blade, then Elemental is correct. The text of Sword Bond that states that the ability works like a Wizard's Arcane Bond means just that-- you have an Arcane Bond as a Wizard, and that means that the two bonded item abilities would try to stack to determine your bonded item's abilities (which is... basically a waste).

Personally, I'd believe the second train of thought, that the Black Blade remains as your Bonded Item and as such you can't really make use of the Arcane Bloodline ability. But this is something to talk to your GM about.

Shadow Lodge

@Durngrun The PRC from 3.5 that i'm going for specifically requires dual wielding daggers, and includes a class ability that allows spell casting somatic components with a dagger in each hand.

@Kestral and ElementalXX

"Works like the wizard ability" is not the same as "is the wizard ability." The way I read that rule, you would have to take the Wizard Arcane Bond and where ever the word "Wizard" is printed you replace it with "Blade Adept". Otherwise, since the Sword Bond Doesn't state that wizard levels and arcanist levels stack for determining the powers of an Arcane Bond, the bonded item would be pretty weak. The Sorcerer Ability on the other hand, does have that statement, as does the Bloodline exploit. So Sorcerer levels, Wizard Levels, and Arcanist levels would all stack for the Bloodline exploit, but the sword bond is a separate bond entirely.

TLDR: Sword Bond doesn't tell you you're allowed to stack them, and none of the abilities prohibit a second directly (Rather they allow you to combine specific class levels for Arcane bond), therefor if you gain both abilities they are separate abilities and do not stack.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

if it behaves like a duck and looks like a duck, in pathfinder it officially counts as a duck. for feat requirements anyway.

with your interpretation, you'd be unable to take any feat that requires the arcane bond class feature.

Shadow Lodge

Bandw2 wrote:

if it behaves like a duck and looks like a duck, in pathfinder it officially counts as a duck. for feat requirements anyway.

with your interpretation, you'd be unable to take any feat that requires the arcane bond class feature.

You are wrong specifically because there is an FAQ that allows class abilities that are functionally the same even if they have different names to count for purposes of feat/PRC qualification. This fuctionality is only for feats/PRC qualification and does not extend to other areas of the system.


Master of Shadows wrote:

@Durngrun The PRC from 3.5 that i'm going for specifically requires dual wielding daggers, and includes a class ability that allows spell casting somatic components with a dagger in each hand.

I'm thinking you didn't click on my link...

Shadow Lodge

umm, you're right, I didn't notice the text was blue... That saves me alot of trouble! And it functions almost exactly like a magical bastard sword I created for a 2nd edition character of mine almost 20 years ago.

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