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In most games, people just pop a potion of Fly and treat their movement the same as it is on the ground. I recently learned this isn't actually how it works, so I made a guide to Flying, specifically geared towards someone who doesn't normally Fly and probably doesn't have ranks in the skill.
Presenting here for feedback before I add it to PFS Prep:
Note that this also means the (at least local) common practice of summoning an eagle and letting it wail on people requires that the Eagle make a DC 15 Fly check to hover in place.
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I recently looked into this for a game I was playing in. You've got most of it there, but you may want to add that any turn 45 degrees or les also requires that you spend an additional 5 ft of movement, it just doesn't require a flight check. This isn't on the chart, it's just lodged in the paragraphs of text under the fly skill.
Also, all of those movement taxes do not count towards moving at least half speed, so you only count actual 2 dimensional squares moved. If you turn too much (or do anything other than move in a straight line while ascending) you'll have to make a fly check based on moving less than half speed.
I believe ( but am not 100% positive) that movement only costs 1/2 while comming down as well, but I don't have my PG so can't say for sure.
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You probably want to add in this line from the beginning of the fly skill:
Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed.
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Thanks for the responses! Will do my best to address the suggestions.
Note that the bonus to fly checks from maneuverability only actually applies to natural fly speeds.
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability
I don't believe this means you don't get a bonus from other forms of flight. It doesn't say "only creatures with natural maneuverability." And if that were the case, there would be no point in specifying the maneuverability you get from Fly.
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Thanks for the responses! Will do my best to address the suggestions.
I don't believe this means you don't get a bonus from other forms of flight. It doesn't say "only creatures with natural maneuverability." And if that were the case, there would be no point in specifying the maneuverability you get from Fly.Note that the bonus to fly checks from maneuverability only actually applies to natural fly speeds.
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverabilityThe Fly spell's language is a hold-over from 3.5, when maneuverability mattered a heck of a lot more (and there also wasn't a Fly skill).
Anyway, take the following:
Creatures with A get a bonus.You're saying because it doesn't say only creatures with A, creatures that have B (which is similar but distinct from A) also get that bonus.
I'm saying the Fly spell granting good maneuverability has no meaning if it doesn't actually affect the target's Fly skill.
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What about the Eidolon, which was (AFAIK) completely new to Pathfinder:
An eidolon grows large wings, like those of a bat, bird, insect, or dragon, gaining the ability to fly. The eidolon gains a fly speed equal to its base speed. The eidolon's maneuverability depends on it size. Medium or smaller eidolons have good maneuverability. Large eidolons have average maneuverability, while Huge eidolons have poor maneuverability. For 2 additional evolution points, the eidolon flies by means of magic. It loses its wings, but its maneuverability increases to perfect. Flying via magic means makes this a supernatural ability. The eidolon's fly speed can be increased by spending additional evolution points, gaining a 20-foot increase to fly speed for each additional point spent. The summoner must be at least 5th level before selecting this evolution.
Or the Shapeshifter Ranger's Form of the Eagle (or Form of the Dragon):
The ranger's skin stretches, his nose becomes hooked, and his eyes enlarge. While in this form, the ranger gains a +10 bonus on Perception checks and a fly speed of 40 feet with good maneuverability. Alternatively, the ranger can polymorph into the form of an eagle or similar raptor as if the caster of beast shape IV.
Or a Wind Oracle's Wings of Air (or any of the other flight granting revelations):
As a swift action, you can manifest a pair of translucent, cloud-like wings that grant you a fly speed of 60 feet with good maneuverability. At 10th level, your speed increases to 90 feet and your maneuverability increases to perfect. You can use these wings for 1 minute per day per oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
There are plenty of non-permanent, non-natural effects that grant a flight speed and maneuverability. That leads me to believe it has some mechanical meaning.
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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Maneuverability has a mechanical effect, described in the Fly skill description. As far as I can tell, every source that grants a Fly speed also grants a maneuverability.
I never played 3.5 and have no prior experience with how it used to work. Reading it as a PFRPG player, this is the only way it makes sense to me.
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It kinda has to do that to begin with, as summon spells cannot summon creatures midair.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
I think this one's a little bit of a failure of RAW, for both flying and aquatic creatures. It sounds like summoning a dolphin would require it to appear on the deck of the ship, then someone has to roll it over into the water. I suspect the intention of the rule was to prevent dropping summoned monsters onto opponents.
I'd say midair/water summons summons would be appropriately considered "a surface capable of supporting it," for creatures with fly/swim speeds, but that's PFS problematic.
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It kinda has to do that to begin with, as summon spells cannot summon creatures midair.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.I think this one's a little bit of a failure of RAW, for both flying and aquatic creatures. It sounds like summoning a dolphin would require it to appear on the deck of the ship, then someone has to roll it over into the water. I suspect the intention of the rule was to prevent dropping summoned monsters onto opponents.
I'd say midair/water summons summons would be appropriately considered "a surface capable of supporting it," for creatures with fly/swim speeds, but that's PFS problematic.
Yes, I'd have no problem as a GM allowing a player to summon a flying creature midair, nor would I have an issue with a GM telling me as a player that I could not.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I was looking for a rule that would tell me whether you could summon a creature into a square occupied by another (because creatures with 3+ size difference can share a square). What I found though was this:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
Interpreting this overly literally, you can't actually summon aquatic creatures in water, only on dry land. I think that's where the common sense part of Rule 0 comes into play. I'd interpret this a bit more liberally:
So if that dog is small and that hippo is huge, you could summon the dog into the hippo's square. Sadly the PFS rules have no mechanics for smaller creatures climbing bigger creatures, despite those being widely represented in cinema , so it's undefined whether you can summon the dog on top of the hippo.
EDIT: I'm not saying the rules are good rules, just how I understand them to work. :P
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It sounds like summoning a dolphin would require it to appear on the deck of the ship, then someone has to roll it over into the water. I suspect the intention of the rule was to prevent dropping summoned monsters onto opponents.
Isn't the "top" of a body of water generally referred to as its "surface"? If so the dolphin could appear at the water's surface and either dive or remain on the surface.
In support of the premise that a body of water has a "surface" in Pathfinder, I'd point to the magic item Horseshoes of a Zephyr, which allows a horse to hover above "surfaces" and specifically calls out that:
The horse must still run above (always around 4 inches above) a roughly horizontal surface. This means that non-solid or unstable surfaces can be crossed[.]
Thus non-solids may have surfaces for rules purposes.
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I'm not an expert on flight rules, so these are just my best guesses...
so, here's a few questions....
Question #1:
Can you turn 45 degrees more than once in a turn.. say you have a 60' move, can you........
This would be 60' of movement (25' of it spent on turns)... and (I think) doesn't require any fly checks...
You moved half your speed and never turned more than 45°, so it looks good to me.
Question #2
can you hit yourself, taking damage and decide to fail the fly check... dropping 10' out of a threated square, and now that you are not treatened, then move away from the creature with reach?
Strict reading, perhaps. I might consider it to essentially work like a 5 ft step, meaning you couldn't do that and move in the same turn.
Question #3
Does the requirement to move half your spead to NOT take a Fly Check count movement spent in turns? (Using the examples above in #1, if you stop after (d) which is 25 foot of distance covered, but 40 feet of movement spent...).
I'm not sure, but I believe someone else above indicated that movement used during turns doesn't count towards the half movement required.
