#Insightful Killer
Not much I can do as input, it genuinely looks well balanced and nicely structured. I would wager, however, that some new Ki abilities could be beneficial for giving the class a little more custom feel to it.
I got a question. The Formbender abilities write-up is quite a bit unclear to me. What I think it should say is this:
She gains evolutions like she were an eidolon. Some these are permanent (called 'aspect'), the others can only be summoned for short times (called 'manifestation'). For some reason, the aspect evos switch off when the manifestation is on.
Did I get it halfway right?
Essentially, "Aspect" allows the formbender to gain some evolutions in normal form, without going full eidolon. He can go full eidolon temporarily, but otherwise has his aspect ability constantly on, unless he decides to suppress it. The reason why Aspect is suppressed when his eidolon is manifested in him, is that he gains only evolutions in his aspect that are granted by his manifestation. So, his aspect evolutions would be redundant, as he just gains them any ways when he manifests his full eidolon form.
In any case, I can see where there might be some confusion. How's this? I also changed some word usage so manifestation isn't confused with the eidlon aspect. So, I renamed Aspect as manifestation, and eidolon manifestation is now Eidolon Aspect. hopefully all this will clear up any confusion.
At 1st level, a formbender must choose one of the base forms listed in the eidolon description, and when manifested, takes a form shaped by the formbender’s desires. The formbenders uses his Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and other abilities while assuming his eidolon aspect. He also receives a pool of evolution points, based his level, that can be used to give the formbender different abilities and powers. Whenever the formbender gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of formbender. In addition, the formbender is also limited a maximum number of natural attacks (see Table: Formbender).
The aspect’s physical appearance is up to the formbender, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the formbender appear like a specific creature. While the aspect is manifested, the formbender bears a glowing rune that appears on his forehead. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts).
The formbender can choose the Extra Evolution as a normal feat. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 1st, maneuver training, slow fall, diamond body, and quivering palm.
As the formbender gains levels, he can divert more points from his eidolon aspect. For every two levels beyond 1st, the formbender can divert one additional point from his eidolon aspect, up to a maximum of 10 evolution points at 19th level. The formbender can change the evolutions he receives from these points any time he can change the eidolon aspect’s evolutions. The number of natural attacks that can be chosen with this ability is likewise limited to Table: Eidolon Manifestation Base Statistics.
A formbender can suppress his manifestation or reactivate it as a swift action. When the formbender uses his eidolon aspect ability, his manifestation is immediately suppressed and is superseded by his eidolon aspect. This ability replaces flurry of blows, and the bonus feats gained at 10th and 18th level.
While this is an ACG-based thread, I will address prior MCA issues that arise on this thread as I always have.
*pant pant phew* Done!
Elegant fencers can be paragons of grace when dueling afoot, but the flamboyant challenger goes a step further in her boastful deeds. Galloping on the battlefield astride her faithful mount, she delivers death blows with her rapier merrily charging with a smile on her face. Often, a flamboyant challenger’s steed is just as renowned as its master, and little less feared for its deeds and fearlessness.
Primary Class: Swashbuckler
Secondary Class: Cavalier
Alignment: Any
Hit Dice: d10
Bonus Skills: The flamboyant challenger adds Handle Animal to her list of class skills. She further adds to her class skills the skills granted by her order (see below). If she already possesses one of these skills, she can freely choose any other cavalier skill to add to her list.
Skill Ranks: 4 + Int modifier.
Base Attack Bonus: +1
Saving Throws: GGP
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A flamboyant challenger is proficient with simple and martial weapons, as well as light armor, but not with shields.
1) Deeds, mount, order, panache, swashbuckler finesse
2) Charming challenge 3/day, order ability
3) Deeds
4) Mounted nimbleness +1
5) Expert trainer
6) Charming challenge 4/day
7) Deeds
8) Mounted nimbleness +2, order ability
9) Bonus feat
10) Charming challenge 5/day
11) Deeds
12) Mounted nimbleness +3
13) Bonus feat
14) Charming challenge 6/day
15) Deeds, order ability
16) Mounted nimbleness +4
17) Bonus feat
18) Charming challenge 7/day
19) Mounted nimbleness +5
20) Master challenger
Mount (Ex): At 1st level, the flamboyant challenger receives a mount. This functions as the cavalier’s class feature, except that a flamboyant challenger’s mount doesn’t begin game with light armor proficiency. It instead gains the share deeds ability.
Share Deeds: While mounted on her faithful steed, a flamboyant challenger can normally use her derring–do, dodging panache, kip–up, swashbuckler’s grace, evasive, and swashbuckler’s edge deeds as if she was afoot. These deeds have effect on the mount as well as on the flamboyant challenger, but require one check only (if needed) and use the flamboyant challenger’s level and skill, AC and ability scores and bonuses. Even when the steed’s unmounted, it can spend panache points from its master’s pool to use the derring–do and evasive deeds. In this case, the steed uses its own level and skill scores.
This replaces two of the swashbuckler’s bonus feats.
Order (Ex): As cavalier. The flamboyant challenger can select the new Order of the Wing. This ability and expert trainer replace swashbuckler weapon training.
Panache (Ex): As swashbuckler.
Swashbuckler Finesse (Ex): As swashbuckler.
Deeds: A flamboyant challenger gains the following deeds:
Jump On (Ex): At 7th level, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to jump in the saddle from a distance or from above. The swashbuckler attempts an Acrobatics check and gains a bonus on this check equal to her Charisma bonus. With a successful check, she manages to mount as a swift action, and negates all falling damage she could have sustained. This replaces superior feint.
Steed Shield (Ex): At 11th level, a mounted swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to use the Cover task granting herself an AC bonus equal to her Dexterity bonus if she makes a successful Ride check with DC 20. Recovering from the cover is a swift action rather than a move action (no check required). This replaces bleeding wound.
Saving Charge (Ex): At 19th level, when the swashbuckler is not astride her mount, she can spend 2 panache points to call her steed to charge through and save her. The steed can move up to its movement rate, adds the master’s Dexterity bonus to its overrun maneuver check, and must end its movement adjacent to its master. This replaces stunning stab.
Charming Challenge (Ex): At 2nd level, the flamboyant challenger gains the charmed life ability and can choose to use it to challenge a foe rather than to a saving throw. If the flamboyant challenger selects this option, she adds her Charisma bonus to the target of her challenge. The flamboyant challenger takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his challenge. The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious or until the combat ends. The flamboyant challenger’s charming challenge also includes her chosen order’s challenge effect. This modifies charmed life.
Mounted Nimbleness (Ex): At 3rd level, a flamboyant challenger gains the Nimble ability, but it functions only when she’s astride a mount. This modifies nimble.
Expert Trainer (Ex): As cavalier.
Bonus Feats: As swashbuckler, but a flamboyant challenger only gains bonus feats at 9th, 13th and 17th level.
Master Challenger (Ex): At 20th level, when a flamboyant challenger threatens a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, that critical is automatically confirmed. Furthermore, if the flamboyant challenger is astride her mount, the critical modifiers of such weapons increase by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, and so on) and the target is stunned for 1d4 rounds. A Will save reduces this to staggered for 1d4 rounds. The DC is equal to 10 + the flamboyant challenger’s base attack bonus.
Members of this order bond with a flying steed. Cavaliers have not to select this order to get a winged mount, but most of them favor it. These cavaliers value excellence in aerial combat above all.
Edicts: The cavalier must choose a winged steed and respect it as a friend and an equal. He must choose to fight airborne if possible. He must protect his homeland or charges from flying menaces and monsters.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the wing cavalier issues a challenge, he and his mount receive a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge as long as the cavalier is flying astride the mount. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.
Skills: An order of the wing cavalier adds Fly and Knowledge (arcane or nature) to his list of class skills. He can make Fly checks untrained. In addition, whenever an order of the wing cavalier uses Ride to guide his mount to a soft fall or spur it to a greater fly speed, he receives a bonus on the check equal to ½ his cavalier level (minimum +1).
Order Abilities: A cavalier belonging to the order of the wing gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Aerial Tactician (Ex): At 2nd level, when the cavalier’s flying astride his mount, it adds half the cavalier’s score to its own for all Fly skill checks.
Airborne Knight (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier ignores the armor check penalty when using the Acrobatics, Fly and Ride skills. He can spur his mount to great fly speed, increasing its movement by 20 feet for 1 round with a successful Ride check. Either the cavalier or his mount also receive a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Acrobatic, Death from Above, Flyby Attack, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus (Fly), or Wingover. The cavalier or the mount must qualify for the feat selected.
Dive (Ex): At 15th level, when charging from above while flying, the cavalier’s mount shares its rider’s benefits for a cavalier’s charge.
Easy enough to mix two fighting classes, and not too long. ^_^ The limitations to Nimble pay for the challenger sharing deeds with her mount. Anyone said Zorro? ^_^
Insightful Killer ** spoiler omitted **...
1) Alignment? Any nonchaotic?
2) Just curious why you replaced sneak attack with stunning fist instead of the more obvious (at least to me) unarmed strike?
3) Ki Pool should be insightful killer level -2. fills some dead levels.
4) Greater Unarmed Specialty should increase unarmed strike from 1/2 level to level -3. Maxes it out at 2d8 instead of 2d10. Either that, or make Unarmed Specialty level -3, and this one full level.
5) Weapon/Armor proficiency?
6) Agree with Tyrannical, could use some more diversity through ki pool. Could also allow him to choose from a list of monk abilities that could be taken as talents. Either that expend ki points like the qinggong monk archetype or just monk abilities straight up without the ki cost (unless they normally use ki to activate).
*pant pant phew* Done!
** spoiler omitted **...
How tied are you to having the mount at 1st level? That's a lot of stuff at 1st, gaining panache + deeds at 1st (swashbuckler bread and butter), and mount + order at 1st (improvtant class features that eat up the cavalier's whole 1st level of abilities).
I think we could move mount to 2nd, keep order at 1st, spread order abilities to 4/10/16, and do some other moving of abilities around to balance things out with swaps too. I'll post the revised Table once I know where you sand on the mount.
Hmm, if Mount goes to level 2, then the challenge should be moved too? Anyway, no problem with the movings. Level 1 is a bit crowded indeed.
Hmm, if Mount goes to level 2, then the challenge should be moved too? Anyway, no problem with the movings. Level 1 is a bit crowded indeed.
To your new order, what score is the mount adding half of to its Fly check? Is it his Fly score or an ability score? Or is it 1/2 the cavalier's level?
Also would you rather have Expert Trainer or the Cavalier's Charge ability?
1) Alignment? Any nonchaotic?
any
2) Just curious why you replaced sneak attack with stunning fist instead of the more obvious (at least to me) unarmed strike?
because debilitating blows and sneak attack occupy very similar thematic roles of taking advantage of an opening.
3) Ki Pool should be insightful killer level -2. fills some dead levels.
thats fair, i was imitating sacred fist. Truth be told im not sold on even having a ki pool. These guys aren't monks, they just picked up a few tricks from them. Think league of assassins from Batman.
4) Greater Unarmed Specialty should increase unarmed strike from 1/2 level to level -3. Maxes it out at 2d8 instead of 2d10. Either that, or make Unarmed Specialty level -3, and this one full level.
the latter seems reasonable.
5) Weapon/Armor proficiency?
unchanged from slayer
6) Agree with Tyrannical, could use some more diversity through ki pool. Could also allow him to choose from a list of monk abilities that could be taken as talents. Either that expend ki points like the qinggong monk archetype or just monk abilities straight up without the ki cost (unless they normally use ki to activate).
i could go with talents, but as stated above i didn't write these guys to be overly mystical.
#Flamboyant Challenger
what flying mount exactly are we getting at level 1-2?
doesn't base cavalier only get to choose horse or camel?(for medium)
#Flamboyant Challenger
what flying mount exactly are we getting at level 1-2?
doesn't base cavalier only get to choose horse or camel?(for medium)
The new Order of the Wing. It talks about flying mounts and order abilities that tie into having such mounts. I'm thinking of having the 2nd level order ability grant the mount the airborne creature template, otherwise the whole order is useless.
The new Order of the Wing. It talks about flying mounts and order abilities that tie into having such mounts. I'm thinking of having the 2nd level order ability grant the mount the airborne creature template, otherwise the whole order is useless.#Flamboyant Challenger
what flying mount exactly are we getting at level 1-2?
doesn't base cavalier only get to choose horse or camel?(for medium)
that's basically what i was saying, what mount can fly and is pickable off the start?
Here's my revised version of the Insightful Killer.
Not all slayers are content to only hide in the shadows. There are those that enjoy facing an opponent head on, luring them into exposing their weak points and take advantage of them. Often trained in more “open-minded” monasteries these deadly assassins incorporate many of monks specialized techniques into their repertoire.
Primary Class: Slayer.
Secondary Class: Monk.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The insightful killer may select three monk skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal slayer class skills. The insightful killer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The insightful killer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Slip By (Ex): An Insightful Killer adds half his level (minimum 1) to Bluff skill checks made to feint. This ability replaces track.
Studied Target (Ex): This is exactly like the slayer ability of the same name, except that this ability is triggered when the insightful killer successfully uses his stunning fist on a target he can study that target as an immediate action, allowing him to apply his studied target bonuses against that target (including to the normal weapon damage roll). This modifies studied target.
Stunning Fist (Ex): At 3rd level, an insightful killer gains the monk’s stunning fist ability. His monk level is equal to his insightful killer level for the purpose of determining the effects of this ability. The insightful killer also adds his studied target bonus to his stunning fist save DC. This ability replaces sneak attack.
Slayer Talents: The insightful killer may choose from the following new talents, restricted to the Insightful Killer multiclass archetype.
Evasion (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s evasion class feature.
Fast Movement (Ex): The insightful killer’s land speed is faster than the norm for her race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when she is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, and not carrying a heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying the insightful slayer’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the insightful killer's land speed.
High Jump (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s high jump class feature. The insightful killer must be at least 6th level to select this talent.
Monastery Techniques (Ex): The insightful killer can choose any one feat from those listed in the monk’s bonus feats, using his insightful killer level as his monk level to determine which feats are available to him, but does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat as normal. The insightful killer may select this talent one additional time at 6th and every four levels thereafter. Each time this talent is selected, it applies to a new monk feat.
Purity of Body (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s purity of body class feature. The insightful killer must be at least 6th level to select this talent.
Slow Fall (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s slow fall class feature. He takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. This distance increases by 10 feet every four levels beyond 4th. The insightful killer must be at least 4th level to select this talent.
Slowing Strike (Ex): If the insightful killer chooses the slowing strike talent, he applies its effect to his stunning fist attacks instead of sneak attacks. This modifies the slowing strike talent.
Still Mind (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s still mind class feature. The insightful killer must be at least 4th level to select this talent.
Unarmed Strike (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s unarmed strike class feature, dealing unarmed damage as a monk equal to his insightful killer level –3.
Advanced Talents: The insightful killer may choose from the following new talents, restricted to the Insightful Killer multiclass archetype.
Assassinate (Ex): If the insightful Killer chooses the assassinate advanced talent, he applies its effects to his stunning fist instead a sneak attack. The save DC for assassinate uses his Wisdom modifier in place of Intelligence. This modifies the assassinate advanced talent.
Diamond Body (Su): The insightful killer gains the monk’s diamond body class feature. The insightful killer must be at least 12th level to select this talent.
Greater Unarmed Strike (Ex): The insightful killer now has an effective monk level equal to his insightful killer level for the purpose of determining the effects of his unarmed strike. The Insightful killer must have the unarmed speciality talent to select this talent.
Improved Evasion (Ex): The insightful killer gains the monk’s improved evasion class feature. The insightful killer must have the evasion talent.
Prying Eyes (Ex): At 11th level, an insightful killer may always take 10 on any Sense Motive skill checks. This ability replaces swift tracker.
Master Slayer (Ex): This is exactly like the slayer’s ability of the same name, except that the insightful killer uses his Wisdom score in place of Intelligence to determine the difficulty check of this ability.
Table: Insightful Killer
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +0 +2 +2 1st studied target, slip by
2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Slayer talent
3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Stunning fist, trap sense +1
4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Slayer talent
5th +5 +1 +4 +4 2nd second studied target
6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +5 Slayer talent
7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +5 Stalker
8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +6 Slayer talent
9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +6
10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +7 3rd studied target, advanced talents, slayer talent
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +7 Prying eyes
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +8 Slayer talent
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +8 Slayer’s advance 1/day
14th +14/+8/+4 +4 +9 +9 Quarry, slayer talent
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +9 4th studied target
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +10 Slayer talent
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Slayer’s advance 2/day
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Slayer talent
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Improved quarry
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 5th studied target, master slayer, slayer talent
that's basically what i was saying, what mount can fly and is pickable off the start?
The only ones I can see are the Hawk (Riding) and Eagle (Riding) which are 3PP cavalier mounts, but they are listed and described on the d20pfsrd.
they are listed under the cavalier's Mount ability, and described in the druid's animal companion descriptions
Here's my revised Flamboyant Challenger.
Swashbucklers can be paragons of grace when dueling afoot, but the flamboyant challenger goes a step further in her boastful deeds. With a merry smile upon her face, she delivers death blows with her rapier as she gallops onto the battlefield astride her faithful mount. Often, the flamboyant challenger’s steed is just as renowned as its master, and only slightly less feared for its deeds and fearlessness.
Primary Class: Swashbuckler.
Secondary Class: Cavalier.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The flamboyant challenger adds Handle Animal to her list of class skills, in addition to those gained from her chosen order. The flamboyant challenger gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The flamboyant challenger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, but not with shields.
Deeds: A flamboyant challenger swaps three deeds for the following deeds.
Jump On (Ex): At 7th level, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to jump in the saddle from a distance or from above. The swashbuckler attempts an Acrobatics check and gains a bonus on this check equal to her Charisma bonus. With a successful check, she manages to mount as a swift action, and negates all falling damage she could have sustained. This deed replaces the superior feint deed.
Steed Shield (Ex): At 11th level, a mounted swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to use the Cover task granting herself an AC bonus equal to her Dexterity bonus if she makes a successful Ride check with DC 20. Recovering from the cover is a swift action rather than a move action (no check required). This deed replaces bleeding wounds deed.
Saving Charge (Ex): At 19th level, when the swashbuckler is not astride her mount, she can spend 2 panache points to call her steed to charge through and save her. The steed can move up to its movement rate, adds the master’s Dexterity bonus to its overrun maneuver check, and must end its movement adjacent to its master. This deed replaces the stunning stab deed.
Nimble Rider (Ex): This is exactly like the swashbuckler’s nimble ability, except that the flamboyant challenger only gains this bonus while mounted or adjacent to her mount.
Order (Ex): A 1st level, a flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s order ability. She gains her 2nd level order ability at 4th level and each subsequent order ability at 10th and 16th level. The flamboyant challenger may select from any order allowed to the cavalier or the new Order of the Winged Steed. This ability replaces the bonus feats gained at 4th and 16th level, and charmed life 5/day.
Charmed Challenge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s challenge ability. As an immediate action, the flamboyant challenger can end her challenge before attempting a saving throw against the target of her challenge, adding her Charisma modifier to the result of the save. She must choose to do this before the roll is made. At 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the flamboyant challenger can use charmed challenge one additional time per day, up to four times per day at 20th level.
Mount (Ex): At 2nd level, a flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s mount ability. While mounted, the flamboyant challenger can use her derring–do, dodging panache, kip–up, swashbuckler’s grace, evasive, and swashbuckler’s edge deeds as if she was on foot. A flamboyant challenger’s mount also gains the following ability.
Share Deeds (Ex): The flamboyant challenger can allow her mount to use any deed that she has access to instead of herself as a swift action. The flamboyant challenger must have or spend the appropriate amount of panache points for the mount to perform the deed. If the flamboyant challenger is mounted, the mount uses her master’s attack bonuses, ability scores, and bonuses to determine the deed’s effect. If the flamboyant challenger is not mounted, the mount uses it own attack bonus, ability scores, and bonus to determine the deed’s effect. This ability does not allow the mount to share abilities that are not deeds, even if they function like deeds.
This ability and charmed challenge replace charmed life 3/day, charmed life 6/day, and the bonus feats gained at 8th and 20th level.
Mighty Charge (Ex): At 12th level, a flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s mighty charge ability. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 12th level.
Demanding Challenge (Ex): At 18th level, a flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s demanding challenge ability. This ability replaces charmed life 7/day.
Master Challenger (Ex): At 20th level, when a flamboyant challenger threatens a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, that critical is automatically confirmed. Furthermore, if the flamboyant challenger is mounted, the critical modifiers of such weapons increase by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, and so on) and the target is stunned for 1d4 rounds. A Will save reduces this to staggered for 1d4 rounds. The DC is equal to 10 + the flamboyant challenger’s base attack bonus. This ability otherwise functions and replaces swashbuckler weapon mastery.
Table: Flamboyant Challenger
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Deeds, order, panache, swashbuckler finesse
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Charmed challenge 1/day, mount
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Deeds, nimble rider +1
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Order ability
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Swashbuckler weapon training 1
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Expert trainer (or cavalier’s charge?)
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Deeds, nimble rider +2
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Charmed challenge 2/day
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Swashbuckler weapon training 2
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Order ability
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 Deeds, nimble rider +3
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Mighty charge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Swashbuckler weapon training 3
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Charmed challenge 3/day
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Deeds, nimble rider +4
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Order ability
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Swashbuckler weapon training 4
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Demanding challenge
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Deeds, nimble rider +5
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Charmed challenge 4/day, master challenger
Members of this order bond with a flying steed. Cavaliers have not to select this order to get a winged mount, but most of them favor it. These cavaliers value excellence in aerial combat above all.
Edicts: The cavalier must choose a winged steed and respect it as a friend and an equal. He must choose to fight airborne if possible. He must protect his homeland or charges from flying menaces and monsters.
Challenge: Whenever an order of the winged steed cavalier issues a challenge, he and his mount receive a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against the target of his challenge as long as the cavalier is mounted or airborne. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.
Skills: An order of the winged steed cavalier adds Fly and Knowledge (nature) to his list of class skills and can make Fly checks untrained. In addition, whenever an order of the winged steed cavalier uses Ride to guide his mount to a soft fall or spur it to a greater fly speed, he receives a bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his cavalier level (minimum +1).
Order Abilities: A cavalier belonging to the order of the winged steed gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Aerial Tactician (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier’s mount gains the airborne creature template if it does not already have a fly speed. In addition, when the cavalier is flying atop his mount, he adds half his level to his Fly skill checks.
Airborne Knight (Ex): At 8th level, the cavalier ignores the armor check penalty when using the Acrobatics, Fly, and Ride skills. He can spur his mount to great fly speed, increasing its movement by 20 feet for 1 round with a successful Ride check. Either the cavalier or his mount also receives a bonus feat, chosen from the following list: Acrobatic, Death from Above, Flyby Attack, Mounted Combat, Skill Focus (Fly), or Wingover. The cavalier or the mount must qualify for the feat selected as normal.
Dive (Ex): At 15th level, when making a charge while flying, the cavalier’s mount gains the bonus granted by his cavalier’s charge ability.
can i claim 13 or so MCAs at once? I sort of want to make an MCA class for each member of organization 13 from Kingdom Hearts.
.
. edit: going to edit these as i come up with abilities for them
.
Member 13*
Paladin(or magus)/Fighter
- Lay on hands at range, can deal damage against living targets with positive energy at higher levels, gains TWF fighter stuff, instead of casting and the other fluff.
Member 12
Magus/Monk
is REALLY fast, and uses electricity attacks and spells. also, some illusion magic.
Member 11
Rogue/Arcanist
At-will vanish at later levels, with sneak attack. ability to teleport quickly after a period. full spell casting, but diminished.
Member 10
Arcanist/Summoner
full casting, summons card to do things. The summoned cards will get better at higher levels.
Member 9
Bard/summoner
gets usual Bard buffing, but can summon some weak creatures constantly. maybe swarms at higher levels.
Member 8*
Magus/Summoner
- casts spells like a magus but arcane pool instead used to summon things, be they summon monster, a wall, a pool of burning lava, etc. mostly about battlefield control and aoe.
Member 7
Barbarian/Magus
Barbarian that behaves like a bloodrager except he charges his attacks/weapon instead of himself, his rounds of rage should be limited though, in a way where he will probably rage and stop raging several times in a battle. as if he has short bursts of focused rages.
Member 6*
Wizard/Bard
- uses Words and a Lexicon to cast spells. casts like bard, but uses sorcerer spells and must wield his book in at least one-hand to cast spells. He presents the book when he casts a spell. can use linguistics ranks in place of spellcraft and UMD.
Member 5
Invulnerable Barbarian/paladin
- lay on hands with the DR of a barbarian, but with 3/4 BAB due to reckless nature.
Member 4
Paladin/Investigator
Member 3*
Fighter/Barbarian/Summoner (some combo of that)
- Summons weapons, and at high levels starts summoning more than he can wield, gains the ability to wield an unusually large amount of weapons (only if he summons them).
Member 2*
Magus/gunslinger (or vice versa)
ability to shoot from multiple angles(as if shooting from squares other than your own) and teleport and freeze yourself in the air. probably a arcane panache pool to pull off these things and other abilities. like being able to shoot at a target from every direction making them flatfooted or something.
Member 1
Fighter/Investigator/Oracle (some combo of that)
(probably scratch this one, his fighting style just doesn't work in pathfinder, he summons his own weapons, attacks at range, uses huge aoe attacks, he is the final boss, so makes sense he is OP)
*ones that i'm excited about
Some of these could have been already created! Go check! :)
@Elghinn
Ok with your changes. Sure I'd like the cavalier's charge, but Expert Trainer feels so much in flavor for a Zorro type that I think it should stay. Maybe remove Mighty Charge (so she doesn't become too much similar to a cavalier)?
As for the Order of the Wing, I created it at first to use with the Monstrous Mount feat and some other rules for flying mounts I created. You're right, it's not so useful alone. However, the steed added half its master's Fly skill score to its own.
can i claim 13 or so MCAs at once? I sort of want to make an MCA class for each member of organization 13 from Kingdom Hearts.
Sure! BUT, I'd like the current thread to stick to ACG combos (at least 1 ACG class in the combo). I know I said before that we could still do other combo MCAs, but I think we should just focus on ACG combos on this thread. Many of the Core/Base combos have been done, and many of the ones that come up are just rehashes of the same combos with different focuses. For me, those are becoming redundant, and I'd like to see new combinations, not ones that have already been done.
In fact, from now on, when we start including Core/Base combos, I'd really like to see new combos, not rehashed ones. Its becoming fatiguing for me to see the same combos come up. It makes it difficult to come up with new unifying abilities and trying to combine the same sets of class features in slightly different ways. I want to help posters build NEW combinations for MCAs, not the old ones we've done once, twice, or even three times. I guess after 3+ years of doing these, I'm becoming jaded, but I want my efforts to be worthwhile and meaningful in furthering the diversity of MCP's MCA wiki database. There are still a number of Core/Base class combos that are untouched.
So, officially, I'm not going to work on any MCAs (Core/Base that is) that are the same combo as ones we've already done. I just don't have the time nor inclination to do that anymore. If people want to do so on their own threads, please do so. That's the whole point of us having done these threads, to get others to learn the process and technique, and them have them build their own.
So now, I want to just focus my efforts on new combos and not a rehashing of already done ones. Alright! Now that I've gotten that off my shoulders, back to happy new ACG MCAs!!! :D
Here's my revised version of the Insightful Killer.
** spoiler omitted **...
i can dig it, although one of its balancing factors was losing ranger combat styles, and rogue talents were lost due to a great deal of them affecting sneak attack with affects that stunning fist already delivers. I think they should be restricted to the talents you have listed. also the 3 skills i listed were the only three skills not on the slayer list from the monk list. d8 should be d10, and i changed them to will and reflex so as to avoid essentially perfect saves although i am not hard sold on it. how about this as a 7th level ability.
Double palm: At 7th level when the Insightful killer successfully lands a stunningfist on an opponent he may expend an additional daily use of his stunning fist to grant a second condition from the list of stunning fist conditions to the opponent. Any further saving throws against these conditions must be rolled separately. This replaces Stalker.
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Well if we're claiming MCAs based on video games and their characters, here's a few ideas based on the characters of Shovel Knight.
"Digging Deterrent"
Cavalier/Shaman (Earth)
"Chapeau Master"
Witch/Barbarian
"Sparkplug Apparition"
Swashbuckler/Sorcerer (Stormborn)
"Comeback Classic"
Cleric/Brawler (Shield Champion)
"Tundra Crusader"
Bloodrager/Paladin
"Turbine Dervish"
Swashbuckler/Gunslinger
"Masked Blaster"
Alchemist/Sorcerer
"Inferno Delver"
Bloodrager/Cavalier
"Forge Constructor"
Warpriest/Alchemist
"Forgotten Fiend"
Oracle/Slayer
"Royal Pain"
Swashbuckler/Paladin
"Depth Champion"
Bloodrager/Alchemist
"Grappling Muscle"
Investigator/Barbarian
"Forge Constructor"
Warpriest/Alchemist
Darn, I had mentioned this a while back in the previous MCA thread, though I never called dibs. The idea for mine was to use the Forgepriest variant archetype of warpriest with the crafting bonuses and bombs from alchemist to create a "Forge Champion". Though I've claimed a whole heap of Alchemist classes in the past, so it's yours if you like :)
Also, before it gets to my turn, what do people prefer to see? I have the Physician/Aesculapian ready and waiting (Investigator/Paladin), though I've a recreation of my old Hive Master (Summoner/Druid to Hunter/Witch) to pitch at some point too... and of course, the Totem Shaman and Bar Brawler almost drafted also.
In any case, I can see where there might be some confusion. How's this? I also changed some word usage so manifestation isn't confused with the eidlon aspect. So, I renamed Aspect as manifestation, and eidolon manifestation is now Eidolon Aspect. hopefully all this will clear up any confusion.** spoiler omitted **...
Yes, it sounds a lot clearer now. thx.
Also, before it gets to my turn, what do people prefer to see? I have the Physician/Aesculapian ready and waiting (Investigator/Paladin), though I've a recreation of my old Hive Master (Summoner/Druid to Hunter/Witch) to pitch at some point too... and of course, the Totem Shaman and Bar Brawler almost drafted also.
Well, since you are asking, a divine investigator seems an interesting concept, and shaman is my new favorite class. So maybe one of those two?
For the big list Dibs, I'll have to see whether they've already been claimed (you can look at 3rd post of the thread for the current list of dibs).
"Forge Constructor"
Warpriest/Alchemist
Darn, I had mentioned this a while back in the previous MCA thread, though I never called dibs. The idea for mine was to use the Forgepriest variant archetype of warpriest with the crafting bonuses and bombs from alchemist to create a "Forge Champion". Though I've claimed a whole heap of Alchemist classes in the past, so it's yours if you like :)
Also, before it gets to my turn, what do people prefer to see? I have the Physician/Aesculapian ready and waiting (Investigator/Paladin), though I've a recreation of my old Hive Master (Summoner/Druid to Hunter/Witch) to pitch at some point too... and of course, the Totem Shaman and Bar Brawler almost drafted also.
T, I've got an Inv/Pal on my list too so we'll need to see who wants it, or collab, or see just how different they really are. Mine's all done, if yours is, why don't you pm it to me and we can see if they are similar or not. I can pm mine to you.
Yes, it sounds a lot clearer now. thx.
In any case, I can see where there might be some confusion. How's this? I also changed some word usage so manifestation isn't confused with the eidlon aspect. So, I renamed Aspect as manifestation, and eidolon manifestation is now Eidolon Aspect. hopefully all this will clear up any confusion.** spoiler omitted **...
Excellent!
With all this dibs calling around, I want on the list with a shaman/ranger, the spirit killer.
Here's my revised version of the Insightful Killer.
** spoiler omitted **...
i can dig it, although one of its balancing factors was losing ranger combat styles, and rogue talents were lost due to a great deal of them affecting sneak attack with affects that stunning fist already delivers. I think they should be restricted to the talents you have listed. also the 3 skills i listed were the only three skills not on the slayer list from the monk list. d8 should be d10, and i changed them to will and reflex so as to avoid essentially perfect saves although i am not hard sold on it. how about this as a 7th level ability.
Double palm: At 7th level when the Insightful killer successfully lands a stunningfist on an opponent he may expend an additional daily use of his stunning fist to grant a second condition from the list of stunning fist conditions to the opponent. Any further saving throws against these conditions must be rolled separately. This replaces Stalker.
Actually there are 4 skills available. Perform is the other one.
So, do you want your MCA only restricted to the new talents? OR any others allowed the slayer too (excluding Rogue Talent and Ranger Combat Style)? I think the others allowed to the slayer are fine.
Yup! I like that Double Palm. OSW will like it too. :D
Here's my revised version of the Insightful Killer.
** spoiler omitted **...
i can dig it, although one of its balancing factors was losing ranger combat styles, and rogue talents were lost due to a great deal of them affecting sneak attack with affects that stunning fist already delivers. I think they should be restricted to the talents you have listed. also the 3 skills i listed were the only three skills not on the slayer list from the monk list. d8 should be d10, and i changed them to will and reflex so as to avoid essentially perfect saves although i am not hard sold on it. how about this as a 7th level ability.
Double palm: At 7th level when the Insightful killer successfully lands a stunningfist on an opponent he may expend an additional daily use of his stunning fist to grant a second condition from the list of stunning fist conditions to the opponent. Any further saving throws against these conditions must be rolled separately. This replaces Stalker.
Actually there are 4 skills available. Perform is the other one.
So, do you want your MCA only restricted to the new talents? OR any others allowed the slayer too (excluding Rogue Talent and Ranger Combat Style)? I think the others allowed to the slayer are fine.
Yup! I like that Double Palm. OSW will like it too. :D
doh, yeah pick 3 skills and drop ranger and rogue talents works for me.
Some of these could have been already created! Go check! :)
@Elghinn
Ok with your changes. Sure I'd like the cavalier's charge, but Expert Trainer feels so much in flavor for a Zorro type that I think it should stay. Maybe remove Mighty Charge (so she doesn't become too much similar to a cavalier)?
As for the Order of the Wing, I created it at first to use with the Monstrous Mount feat and some other rules for flying mounts I created. You're right, it's not so useful alone. However, the steed added half its master's Fly skill score to its own.
Ok, keeping Expert Traininer, and replacing Mighty Charge with this at 12th.
Daring Tactician (Ex): At 12th level, a flamboyant challenger’s bold actions becomes a symbol of inspiration to his allies and companions. As long as the flamboyant challenger is clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge. At 15th and again at 18th level, these bonuses increase by +1. At 16th level, these bonuses also apply to saving throws against charm and compulsion spells and effects. The flamboyant challenger must be at least Small or larger size or atop his mount for this ability to function. This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 12th level.
can i claim 13 or so MCAs at once? I sort of want to make an MCA class for each member of organization 13 from Kingdom Hearts...
Of these only the following belong in the ACG thread.
Rog/Arc
Arc/Sum
Pal/Inv
Ftr/Inv/Ora
Of those ones, I've already dibbed the Roc/Arc (Spell Thief) and I also have the Arc/Rog combo. My Inv/Pal which is a double up with T's Inv/Pal, I've changed to Pal/Inv so it no longer is the same MCA combo as T's, and its already been constructed.
That leaves you with
Arc/Sum
Ftr/Inv/Ora
Am I the only one thinking the whole 'dibs' process is a little flawed? not that I think staking a claim to an MCA combo is bad, but by claiming concepts in mass you're really restricting the creative scope of others if we're sticking to a 'one class per combination' system...
I'd say to make it far more reasonable, only having dibs on two at a time (current and upcoming) should be allowed, so we don't end up with too much collision of ideas, and missing out on opportunities over an MCA that realistically might not happen.
So for example; I've claimed Inv/Pal as my current MCA, and Hunter/Witch as my upcoming MCA. All other ideas I've come up with? well, they're certainly noted, but it shouldn't stop anybody else from making that combo should they wish. Of course, if I choose not to do Hunter/Witch and do something entirely different, that combo is then available for anyone to use, and my new choice could be anything not claimed as current/upcoming.
That, or we just make sure that if two people have the same combination, we ensure that they are vastly different, no other classes will fit as substitution, and that the primary/secondary cannot be swapped. But no more than two, anything else will have to accept that MCA is unavailable.
What do people think?
@Dibs
I've been thinking about that too. I agree. Personally, I can't see how one can call dibs on 10+ MCAs, and actually have a concrete idea on their build. Sometimes I'm even guilty of that, but I always try to have a pretty concrete concept, and have it pretty fleshed out before they even come up.
Why don't we do this. Everyone pick their top 5 on their dibs list. Post them, and that'll be the new queue. Then, once we get down to people having two in their personal queue, they can call dibs on their next one when they post a current one of their two. That way, everyone will have two in their queue: 1 that is currently on the block, and 2 that are up and coming.
For example, If I post one of my last two MCAs in my own queue, I can call dibs on one, giving me two in my queue again.
I can still keep track of the whole list, but also allow others to call different combos that someone else may have already "dibbed". Besides, it also allows those who may have a similar combo to give input from their concepts, if they mesh that is. Often results in great builds.
So, Here's my top 5. these are actually all built already.
Spell Thief (Rog/Arc) – Elghinn
Stealth Arcanist (Arc/Rog) – Elghinn
Arcane/Eldritch Champion (Pal/Arc) – Elghinn
Divine Detective (Pal/Inv)– Elghinn
War Saint (Wrp/Pal) – Elghinn
So, take a look at the third post of the thread and pick your top 5 and let me know. If we have conflicts, the two posters will need to work it out, just like Tyrannical and I did with our Inv/Pal. Though a max of two of the same class combos could also work. As long as they are vastly different.
Well, I dont feel restricted at all, as I am just coming up with my 4th one :)
Totem rager (bloodr/summ)
Explosive blade (swash/alch)
Spirit killer (sham/rang)
Gunpriest (warpr/gunsl)
The 1st one is ready, and I am pretty sure what to do with the others.
Alrighty, here's my priority picks
Physician (Invest/Paladin)
Hive Master V2 (Hunter/Witch)
Bar Brawler (Brawler/Skald)
Flag Bearer (Cavalier/Skald)
Totem Shaman (Shaman/Barbarian)
Hopefully these don't conflict with others
# Insightful Killer
I like that this and the Intuitive Combatant feel like they complement each other rather than anything unruly. :)
* Weapon and Armor - nothing about this says to me Medium armor, and with the monk being thematically no armor and the Slayer maxing out at Medium, PLUS the stealth requirement of the flavor text I'd be inclined to make this light armored, but its not a biggie.
* Slip By - this is one of the sorts of abilities I initially wanted for the IC, but then again the IC already gets it in a way being able to use Intuition on skill checks in combat. I like this.
*Slayer Talents - sad that these monk abilities are restricted to the IK, as it means the IC can't choose them. :P. These are really nice abilities for a Slayer.
* Prying Eyes I would rename to something that sees through people's facade - Calculating Eye or Discerning Eye…
#Flamboyant Challenger
This bugs me that the mount is unavailable from the outset - even though it is a swashbuckler Primary. Elghinn will remember this as a bugbear of mine. Which makes me think that I prefer any mounted swashbuckler to be Cavalier primary, and leave the Swashbuckler/Cavalier to the unmounted Commander trope along the lines of the Dreadnaught (Cav/Inq) but with more derring do of course! But again it is no biggie.
* I can see an argument for making Order come in at 2nd level as the first Order ability (yes, skills come straight away…) doesn't come online until then, although there is also this:
Order (Ex): A 1st level, a flamboyant challenger gains the cavalier’s order ability. She gains her 2nd level order ability at 4th level and each subsequent order ability at 10th and 16th level. The flamboyant challenger may select from any order allowed to the cavalier or the new Order of the Winged Steed. This ability replaces the bonus feats gained at 4th and 16th level, and charmed life 5/day.
So which is is actually? And either way, I'd move mount to first level and order to later. Thematically I can see this work either way - the 1st level is the squire level for the mount less version who receives the mount at 2nd level OR, the version that receives the mount at 1st level is not accepted into the Order until proving herself with her mount.
* I'd like to see more new earlier Deeds of course as always, something to flesh the concept out a little more.
* Unsure what this means:
Aerial Tactician (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier’s mount gains the airborne creature template if it does not already have a fly speed.
Does the airborne creature template confer special bonuses that creature's who can fly but don't have it miss out on? Or does it give dire hamster mounts cool wings?
#Unrepentant Dibaholic
[sigh] So it has come to this has it? ;p
From my initial list I'm happy to explore the
#1 Hunter/Slayer next and
#2 Skald/Inquisitor after that..
I've lost the will to do the Slayer/Inquisitor as the ACG archetype one is pretty cool and Bardess seems to want to go in that direction too.
No longer interested in the Skald/Oracle (skald that song/dance shares Mysteries), and the Alc/Swa was so thematically and process wise so remotely related to the Xenocite Assailant as to not be funny.
So I guess I'll go with these as my others.
#3: Hunter/Swashbuckler
#4: Witch/Swashbuckler
#5: Witch/Hunter (not a Witch-hunter)
# Insightful Killer
I like that this and the Intuitive Combatant feel like they complement each other rather than anything unruly. :)
* Weapon and Armor - nothing about this says to me Medium armor, and with the monk being thematically no armor and the Slayer maxing out at Medium, PLUS the stealth requirement of the flavor text I'd be inclined to make this light armored, but its not a biggie.
* Slip By - this is one of the sorts of abilities I initially wanted for the IC, but then again the IC already gets it in a way being able to use Intuition on skill checks in combat. I like this.
*Slayer Talents - sad that these monk abilities are restricted to the IK, as it means the IC can't choose them. :P. These are really nice abilities for a Slayer.
* Prying Eyes I would rename to something that sees through people's facade - Calculating Eye or Discerning Eye…
1) I think we could go to light armor. Thoughts Christos?
2) +1 (thought so)
3) We could make them available. Not sure if all of them are suitable to yours. I could see Evasion, High Jump, Fast Movement, and Improved Evasion for sure.
4) Discerning Eye sounds better.
dibs, i guess
Abolitionist - antipal/Arc
Vessel - Bloodrage/Arc
"Prophet of the metal Gods" - bloodrager/Bard
Graceful Assassin - Arc/(Rogue/smashbuckler)
Cloaked Schemer - Arc/Bard
and the 13 members i had a good grasp of because they all had unique and interesting fighting styles. however, a few of them i think aren't great for pathfinder, such as the chilly academic, and the superior of the in-between.
I guess I can call a Warpriest/Oracle and a Warpriest/Barbarian.
#OSW
The Airborne template is from RGG. It essentially gives wings to everything.
As for mount/order, you have a point. Zorro is more swashbuckler than cavalier, but his mount is more important than his "order". Maybe we could postpone everything of a couple levels... 2nd-4th-10th-17th?
1) I think we could go to light armor. Thoughts Christos?
thats fine but then they should probably get the monks dodge bonus. Actually the flavor is supposed to imply they are less stealth oriented.
We could make them available. Not sure if all of them are suitable to yours. I could see Evasion, High Jump, Fast Movement, and Improved Evasion for sure.
agreed
4) Discerning Eye sounds better.
agreed.
#Insightful Killer
I seem to have misread the flavor text. It does specify a less stealth approach. I'm happy either way.
#Insightful Killer
I seem to have misread the flavor text. It does specify a less stealth approach. I'm happy either way.
ah good, wasn't sure if it was clear enough.
I guess I can call a Warpriest/Oracle and a Warpriest/Barbarian.
#OSW
The Airborne template is from RGG. It essentially gives wings to everything.
As for mount/order, you have a point. Zorro is more swashbuckler than cavalier, but his mount is more important than his "order". Maybe we could postpone everything of a couple levels... 2nd-4th-10th-17th?
Let's place Mount at 2nd, and Order/order abilities at 4th, 10th, 16th. Delays onset of the order, but only delays abilities by 3/2/1 level over the entire MCA. I think that's a great idea.
So, made all the changes to the MCAs we're working on. Do we need a final repost of the IK and FC?
#Flamboyant Challenger
Umm, this seems worse! I wanted to see Mount or Order at 1st - otherwise there is no full concept until after 1st level.
If Order comes online at 4th (I'd prefer 2nd) can we get Mount at 1st?
#Flamboyant Challenger
Umm, this seems worse! I wanted to see Mount or Order at 1st - otherwise there is no full concept until after 1st level.
If Order comes online at 4th (I'd prefer 2nd) can we get Mount at 1st?
Then let's put Mount at 1st, Order at 2nd (Skills, Challenge benefit), and the Order abilities at 4th/10th/16th. Thus, having to prove himself a "cavalier" to enter an order at 2nd and abilities are delayed sufficiently.
Ok for me. ^_^
umm wait whats left for warpriest claims?