Consider the Staff of Dark Flame...for 47,000gp you get:
Made from bleached bones that have been fused together, the head of this staff burns with an unholy fire. This staff can be used as a +1 flaming quarterstaff (only one end of the staff bears magical enhancement), and it retains this property even if all its charges are drained. This staff can cast the following spells:
•False life (1 charge)
•Ray of enfeeblement (1 charge)
•Scorching ray (1 charge)
•Fireball (2 charges)
•Animate dead (3 charges)
A +1 weapon that also functions as a staff for spellcasting purposes. Pretty sweet. Other than the general rule about certain magics only allowable in certain slots (ie, no DEX gloves or INT belts), is there any mechanical reason why you cannot instead make a Bow of Dark Flame?
Made from bleached bones that have been fused together, this +1 flaming longbow glows with an unholy light, and it retains this property even if all its charges are drained. This bow can cast the following spells:
•Abundant Ammunition (1 charge)
•Gravity Bow (1 charge)
•Arrow Eruption (1 charge)
•Versatile Weapon(2 charges)
•Windwall (3 charges)
One could argue that a longbow is a more useful weapon than a quarterstaff but that's certainly a matter of player (and character) opinion. Spell levels are almost the same (Abundant is actually a level lower) so from an enchantment perspective it should match up to the 27,133 crafting cross of the staff.
But is it allowed? The crafting requirements for the staff are both feats (staff and weapon) so is it really that different to create a +1 weapon of a different type that functions like a +1 quarterstaff??? Or would something like this have to go the spell storing route?
It is not allowed.
Staves are a type of magic item. Most of them can be used like a quarterstaff, and they have their own rules.
This is like asking if I can make a wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no. The rules do not allow it.
thought that might be the case.......making a +1 weapon that also casts spells BUT can only be in one specific shape in a world where I can literally stop time doesn't make much sense to me personally, but Ive never been a fan of the "only belts can give you STR" type rules anyway. (Maybe Im just nostalgic for my Gauntlets of Ogre Power)
thanks for the quick response, guess I'll see what the GM thinks about homebrewing it.........
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For an example of a non-staff staff, the ACG has this in it:
Technically it's a staff that can be used as a masterwork shovel. I don't know if that means it's essentially a masterwork shovel with the magical powers of a staff or not. (There's actually an illustration of it in the book, and it's pretty much just a shovel by appearance.)
That said, a shovel-handle is significantly more staff-like than a bow, even an unstrung one.
mechaPoet, you are correct. It is a staff which functions "as a MW shovel".
It would function as a improvised bludgeon weapon the same as a shovel used as a weapon is. Despite the reference to the tip...
You can add spell-like abilities to other weapons and items, boots of teleportation for example. It is quite expensive.
I think the balance issue lies in how the staves function: namely that they are a powerful flexible casting tool and a crappy weapon. A dagger would be one handed, allowing you to wield 2. A bow is a fantastic weapon; making it staff-like should cost quite a bit more.
This is like asking if I can make a wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no. The rules do not allow it.
Icicle Wand : "A combination of arcane tool and weapon". "An icicle wand functions primarily as a wand of ice spears (see page 72), granting its user the ability to create and turn icy terrain against her enemies. In addition, an icicle wand can also be wielded as a masterwork dagger that deals 1 point of cold damage with a successful attack in addition to normal dagger damage. An icicle wand with a caster level of 7th or higher functions as a +1 frost dagger instead."
So it's as crazy as making a wand that functions as a dagger?...
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"A typical staff measures anywhere from 4 feet to 7 feet long and is 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds. Most staves are wood, but an exotic few are bone, metal, or even glass. A staff often has a gem or some device at its tip or is shod in metal at one or both ends. Staves are often decorated with carvings or runes. A typical staff also functions as a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel. It has AC 7, 10 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 24."
Typical is walking stick, quarterstaff or cudgel, which implies that non-typical (such as the shovel example above) is possible. Obviously, it would be a custom magic item, and thus extremely subject to GM call (which with magic items can legitimately be no just because the GM doesn't think the flavor fits) but it seems to me that it would be possible to enchant a bow as staff spell-trigger item.
So it's as crazy as making a wand that functions as a dagger?...
Yes, it is. Like all custom magic items, ask your GM. You can't explicitly do it by the rules.
Typical is walking stick, quarterstaff or cudgel, which implies that non-typical (such as the shovel example above) is possible. Obviously, it would be a custom magic item, and thus extremely subject to GM call (which with magic items can legitimately be no just because the GM doesn't think the flavor fits) but it seems to me that it would be possible to enchant a bow as staff spell-trigger item.
To make an atypical staff, is GM permission like you said.
So it's as crazy as making a wand that functions as a dagger?...Yes, it is. Like all custom magic items, ask your GM. You can't explicitly do it by the rules.
AH... anyone that has the creation feats can make a wand that functions as a dagger as I showed. You explicitly CAN do it by the rules. Your example is flawed as Icicle Wand proves your statement wrong.
This isn't to disagree with the rest of your post. For the OP's question, it's GM permission. Just disagreeing with the example you picked to 'prove' it's not a rule as you're wrong on that point.
So it's as crazy as making a wand that functions as a dagger?...Yes, it is. Like all custom magic items, ask your GM. You can't explicitly do it by the rules.AH... anyone that has the creation feats can make a wand that functions as a dagger as I showed. You explicitly CAN do it by the rules. Your example is flawed as Icicle Wand proves your statement wrong.
This isn't to disagree with the rest of your post. For the OP's question, it's GM permission. Just disagreeing with the example you picked to 'prove' it's not a rule as you're wrong on that point.
The Icicle Wand is not a "wand". It is a special type of magical item that is a mix of both magic weapon and magic wand. In addition, it is ONLY a wand of ice spears. You can't have a Icicle Wand of magic missile for example.
The Icicle Wand is not a "wand". It is a special type of magical item that is a mix of both magic weapon and magic wand. In addition, it is ONLY a wand of ice spears. You can't have a Icicle Wand of magic missile for example.So it's as crazy as making a wand that functions as a dagger?...Yes, it is. Like all custom magic items, ask your GM. You can't explicitly do it by the rules.AH... anyone that has the creation feats can make a wand that functions as a dagger as I showed. You explicitly CAN do it by the rules. Your example is flawed as Icicle Wand proves your statement wrong.
This isn't to disagree with the rest of your post. For the OP's question, it's GM permission. Just disagreeing with the example you picked to 'prove' it's not a rule as you're wrong on that point.
Well that's a moved goalpost... :P
Here is your post:
This is like asking if I can make a wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no. The rules do not allow it.
No mention of ANY wand just that the entire idea of a wand combined with a dagger wasn't in the rules. That statement is false.
As to The Icicle Wand is not a "wand": "An icicle wand functions primarily as a wand of ice spears". Seems pretty clear what it is.
As to "It is a special type of magical item that is a mix of both magic weapon and magic wand": You mean like wands, rods and staves? It's far from a foreign idea that this section of the items can also be used as a weapon.
As to "it is ONLY a wand of ice spears: So? I'm not the one that stated that a wand that could be used as a dagger was crazy talk. There ARE examples of wands used as weapons and that's all I had to do to show that your point was wrong. You never said it was it was about having ANY wand usable as a dagger just that the basic idea was outlandish.
The existence of the weapon wand spell implies, if we are talking custom magic items anyway, then yes, you could indeed create a custom magic item that was a wand and a weapon. The extra 1000 gold that an Icicle wand appears to cost would be a reasonable price for any wand also serving as a masterwork dagger with a minor special ability (possibly also scaling at above minimum CL)
The existence of the weapon wand spell implies, if we are talking custom magic items anyway, then yes, you could indeed create a custom magic item that was a wand and a weapon. The extra 1000 gold that an Icicle wand appears to cost would be a reasonable price for any wand also serving as a masterwork dagger with a minor special ability (possibly also scaling at above minimum CL)
It gives the Icicle Dagger spell continuously basically.
The Icicle Dagger is not "a wand that is a dagger". It is a specific magic item that is in a splatbook which does not follow the normal conventions. It is not crafted like a wand and so therefore is not relevant to the discussion.
Does a non-staff staff exist? Maybe. Does that mean you can craft other non-staff staves at will changing anything you want about them? No.
Does a dagger/wand hybrid exist? Yes. Does that mean you can make it a icicle wand of fireball instead? No. Can you change anything about it by RAW? No. It is a named magic item which is in fact listed under "Unique Weapons" not "Wands".
You can make an icicle wand. There are no rules allowing an arbitrary wand-that-is-also-a-dagger, though there are some loose guidelines for such combinations.
I guess the question is, what do you mean by "can I make it"? Do you mean "can I make it unless the GM house rules that I can't", or do you mean "can I make it at all without just pulling a number out of my bag of holding", or do you mean something else entirely?
The Icicle Dagger is not "a wand that is a dagger". It is a specific magic item that is in a splatbook which does not follow the normal conventions. It is not crafted like a wand and so therefore is not relevant to the discussion.
Really? I see Craft Wand as a requirement... Seems like it's crafted like a wand...
As to Splat book: So? It's an official Pathfinder item that had to pass the same editorial staff as the other books.
Does a non-staff staff exist? Maybe. Does that mean you can craft other non-staff staves at will changing anything you want about them? No.
That was NEVER the question. Your statement in essence was that a wand that could be used as a dagger was silly and wanting to make a staff something else was equally silly. Then I pointed out that there WAS a wand that was a dagger so it made your wand example the silly point.
Does a dagger/wand hybrid exist? Yes. Does that mean you can make it a icicle wand of fireball instead? No. Can you change anything about it by RAW? No. It is a named magic item which is in fact listed under "Unique Weapons" not "Wands".
SO? You made a point that was silly. "This is like asking if I can make a wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no." This is 100% FALSE!!!!!!!!!
It's being false doesn't mean anything other than you where WRONG. It doesn't set new RAW. I'm not trying to set precedent. I'm just saying that your point was WRONG!!!!! Totally WRONG!!!!! 100% WRONG!!!!!!!
SO to review. You where wrong. I pointed it out. You refuse to admit you where wrong. The OP would STILL need to ask his GM about making the item he asked about.
You can make an icicle wand. There are no rules allowing an arbitrary wand-that-is-also-a-dagger, though there are some loose guidelines for such combinations.
That was never my point. "This is like asking if I can make a wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no. The rules do not allow it." This is wrong. Now if he'd said 'This is like asking if I can make ANY wand that also functions as a dagger. The answer is no. The rules do not allow it.' he'd have been right. He made a poor example/point and I was just pointing it out. He decided to make it a big deal about it...
Fine. I amend my statement: This is like asking if I can make ANY wand that also functions as a dagger. That is what I meant, and a specific named unique item which is not crafted like a wand (craft wand and thats it) was a poor way to try to point out my meaning.
Graystone, you're being overly pedantic here, and the worst epitome of lawyering behavior. Don't be that guy.