Whats build that does the most damage early on in the game? specifically lvl 4. I'm talking base damage swings, no crits or anything weird.
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Whats build that does the most damage early on in the game? specifically lvl 4. I'm talking base damage swings, no crits or anything weird.
Kind of depends on what kind of damage you're looking for. If you want a single target nuke a greatsword-wielding Barbarian or Blood-rager is likely the way to go. But a lot of time much of that damage is lost due to overkill (dealing 35 hit points to something that only requires 15 to kill), so consider this:
Human Weaponmaster Fighter
Min attributes: Str 13, Dex 13, Int 13
1st - Power Attack
1st - Cleave
1st - Dodge
2nd - Combat Expertise
3rd - Mobility
4th - Spring Attack (swap Cleave for Whirlwind Attack)
With a Lucerne Hammer for instance, you'll be dealing 1d12 +6 (Power Attack) +6 (18 Strength) +1 (Weapon Training) for 14-25 points of damage, but you'll be able to do it against pretty much everyone within 10 feet of you - remember, that a full attack action (like Whirlwind Attack) allows you to take a 5' step in the middle of it, further increasing your attack area. So rather than one great big hit instead you could conceivably make 2, 3 or 4 pretty big hits, and then there's the additional ever-impending Attack of Opportunity allowed by your reach weapon.
Once saw a 4th level character with a Lore Warden version of this build (no Weapon Training, add Combat Reflexes) wipe out a group of eight 2nd level warriors without breaking a sweat.
Though some might also tell you a Master Summoner or a melee-styled standard Summoner... 4th level is right about the time Haste comes online for them.
I think the Abyssal bloodrager would be better off using bite/claw/claw than going straight greatsword, wouldn't he?
2 x 1d8 from large claws
1 x 1d6 from large bite
3 x 5 from Str
3 x 4 from Power Attack
3 x 2 from Reckless Rage
So that's 45.5 if you can hit on all three. And less chance of wasted attacks due to overkill than if you use a greatsword. On the downside, it requires a full attack.
Crossblooded Sorcerer 1 / Admixture Wizard 3 could do intensified burning hands for 8d4+18 as a first level spell.
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.
Varissian tattoo
Outlander/LoreseekerIntense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)
I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
2) get fiendish totem for a gore attack
3) claw and maw for claws
4) adopted into tusk (4th attack)
My impression was that you cannot attack with both a bite and a gore attack in the same round (for the same reason you cannot attack with your claws when attacking with a greatsword.) Correct me if I'm wrong.
edit: (found an unofficial reference here. Not sure if there's anything more official or up-to-date on the issue.)
And again, it can be a bit situational... for instance, I'd say that in the long run, the most survivable character will end up dealing the most damage. Dead characters deal notoriously little damage.
Oops, forgot to include raging Str bonus to the bloodrager. It should be 51.5 damage if you can get all three hits.
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.Varissian tattoo
Outlander/Loreseeker
Intense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
So I just put it all together and you can get there. I wouldn't build the character this way if I were playing beyond 4th level, but at 4th it is very strong.
Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded {orc}{draconic}][Tattooed Sorcerer] 1 / Wizard [Thassilonian Specialist {Wrath}][Evoker {Admixture}] 3
T - Magical Lineage - Burning Hands
T - Outlander/Lore Seeker - Burning Hands/Scorching Ray/Mage Armor
F - (Human) Intensified Spell
F - (Wizard) Spell Focus [Evocation] *PFS rule, YMMV
F - (1st) Bloatmage Initiate OR Irrisen Icemage
F - (Tattooed Sorcerer) Varisian Tattoo
F - (3rd) Spell Specialization
CL 3 - Wizard Levels
+2 CL - Spell Specialization
+1 CL - Varisian Tattoo
+1 CL - Outlander/Lore Seeker
+1 CL - Bloatmage Initiate / Irrisen Icemage
8d4+17 DC18 10 times a day
At level 5, you could get it up to 10d4+22, At level 6 you would retrain stuff and switch over to fireball.
Archer?
1st: PB Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim
2nd: WP Focus
3rd: WP Spec
4th: PB Master
Composite Longbow +1
Respectable and reliable damage twice per round from far away. Not that gimmicky but has a lot of growing room (Many Shot, Clustered Shot, Imp Crit). One of the stronger builds in the game.
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.Varissian tattoo
Outlander/Loreseeker
Intense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
So I just put it all together and you can get there. I wouldn't build the character this way if I were playing beyond 4th level, but at 4th it is very strong.
Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded {orc}{draconic}][Tattooed Sorcerer] 1 / Wizard [Thassilonian Specialist {Wrath}][Evoker {Admixture}] 3
T - Magical Lineage - Burning Hands
T - Outlander/Lore Seeker - Burning Hands/Scorching Ray/Mage Armor
F - (Human) Intensified Spell
F - (Wizard) Spell Focus [Evocation] *PFS rule, YMMV
F - (1st) Bloatmage Initiate OR Irrisen Icemage
F - (Tattooed Sorcerer) Varisian Tattoo
F - (3rd) Spell SpecializationCL 3 - Wizard Levels
+2 CL - Spell Specialization
+1 CL - Varisian Tattoo
+1 CL - Outlander/Lore Seeker
+1 CL - Bloatmage Initiate / Irrisen Icemage8d4+17 DC18 10 times a day
At level 5, you could get it up to 10d4+22, At level 6 you would retrain stuff and switch over to fireball.
the only thing you'd need to retrain was the lineage right? everything else is either to the evocation school, so all spells from it, and spell specialization lets you switch it every few levels anyways.
the only thing you'd need to retrain was the lineage right? everything else is either to the evocation school, so all spells from it, and spell specialization lets you switch it every few levels anyways.
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.Varissian tattoo
Outlander/Loreseeker
Intense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
So I just put it all together and you can get there. I wouldn't build the character this way if I were playing beyond 4th level, but at 4th it is very strong.
Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded {orc}{draconic}][Tattooed Sorcerer] 1 / Wizard [Thassilonian Specialist {Wrath}][Evoker {Admixture}] 3
T - Magical Lineage - Burning Hands
T - Outlander/Lore Seeker - Burning Hands/Scorching Ray/Mage Armor
F - (Human) Intensified Spell
F - (Wizard) Spell Focus [Evocation] *PFS rule, YMMV
F - (1st) Bloatmage Initiate OR Irrisen Icemage
F - (Tattooed Sorcerer) Varisian Tattoo
F - (3rd) Spell SpecializationCL 3 - Wizard Levels
+2 CL - Spell Specialization
+1 CL - Varisian Tattoo
+1 CL - Outlander/Lore Seeker
+1 CL - Bloatmage Initiate / Irrisen Icemage8d4+17 DC18 10 times a day
At level 5, you could get it up to 10d4+22, At level 6 you would retrain stuff and switch over to fireball.
And outlander/Loreseeker. Everything else is good to go.
I think the Abyssal bloodrager would be better off using bite/claw/claw than going straight greatsword, wouldn't he?
2 x 1d8 from large claws
1 x 1d6 from large bite
3 x 5 from Str
3 x 4 from Power Attack
3 x 2 from Reckless RageSo that's 45.5 if you can hit on all three. And less chance of wasted attacks due to overkill than if you use a greatsword. On the downside, it requires a full attack.
Dont you only get claws from that bloodline?
Yeah, but you can play a toothy half-orc.
This may come out of left field, but i might run a druid.. Wild shape druid to be exact.
20 str total (giant str belt)
At lvl 4 im doing, with power attack and bull strength, leopard form
30+1d6+2d3 = 33-42
3 x 8 (str)
3 x 2 (power attack)
So the damage is meh, average, but i also have the campainion(Ape). whom is doing at lvl 4 with power attack
24 + 3d6 = 27-42
3 x 6 (str)
3 x 2 (power attack)
seems like its hard to compete with those two numbers combined. and thats without flanking too
I think the Abyssal bloodrager would be better off using bite/claw/claw than going straight greatsword, wouldn't he?
2 x 1d8 from large claws
1 x 1d6 from large bite
3 x 5 from Str
3 x 4 from Power Attack
3 x 2 from Reckless RageSo that's 45.5 if you can hit on all three. And less chance of wasted attacks due to overkill than if you use a greatsword. On the downside, it requires a full attack.
Hey, lemme pimp dat s**t up wit da latest rage:
Human (adopted: horc toothy) abyssal bloodrager (rageshaper):
2 x 1d8 large claws
2 x 1d8 large claws bestial aspect
1 x 1d6 large bite
3 x 8 str (20 base, +4 rage, +2 size)
3 x 4 Power Attack (human bonus feat)
3 x 2 Reckless Rage
3 x 1 Arcane Strike (through retraining at 4th level)
IOW: 2 claws +9 (2d8+15/x2), bite +9 (1d6+15/x2)
66.5 average damage with a full attack, or 24 damage with a single claw attack. Nice full attack damage and pretty decent single-attack damage for charges/AoOs/attack actions/etc (comparable to the average damage most 2-handers of the same level). Not as ridiculous as what a charge build can manage on paper, but will likely result in a higher overall damage actually dealt in most games/adventures.
Mo' phat bling for further pimpin' is found by dipping 2 levels of MoMS monk, giving you Pummeling Style/Charge for free pseudo-pounce and hilarious crit damage, perfect for high CR BBEGs. MoMS also gives you IUS for free, which sets you up for Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style/Ferocity and Horn of the Criosphinx. These give your claws 2 x Str mod damage on charges, at least 1.5 x Str mod on other attacks, and the x3 damage of Power Attack and Reckless Rage (just like 2-handed weapons). Grab a Helm of the Mammoth Lord for a fourth primary natural attack when you can afford it.
My impression was that you cannot attack with both a bite and a gore attack in the same round (for the same reason you cannot attack with your claws when attacking with a greatsword.) Correct me if I'm wrong.
edit: (found an unofficial reference here. Not sure if there's anything more official or up-to-date on the issue.)
I don't think there's anything official on that issue. But regardless, judging from the eidolon and bestiary rules, this primarily concerns wielding manufactured weapons in limbs with natural attacks, as a single limb cannot even have two different natural attacks to begin with. And since neither eidolons or creatures in the bestiaries treat natural attacks attached to/associated with their heads as being made with the same "limb", and since there are no other rules on the subject, I see no reason to assume other creatures should treat such attacks differently.
(The eidolon rules don't refer to heads as limbs, and unlike the rules for attacks associated with limbs (arms or legs), allows for adding any associated attack once per head as well as making each attack once per turn in a full attack. I also think the personal opinions or houserules of Paizo devs have no actual bearing on any interpretations of RAW, unless perhaps coming from the actual dev responsible for the rules item in question.)
2) get fiendish totem for a gore attack
3) claw and maw for claws
4) adopted into tusk (4th attack)My impression was that you cannot attack with both a bite and a gore attack in the same round (for the same reason you cannot attack with your claws when attacking with a greatsword.) Correct me if I'm wrong.
edit: (found an unofficial reference here. Not sure if there's anything more official or up-to-date on the issue.)
SKR was wrong here. In the 3.X system, of which Pathfinder is a part, there is nothing a monster can do that a PC cannot do unless it has a special ability. According to SKR's post a PC who used a polymorph type spell to transform into a gargoyle could not both bite and gore while the actual gargoyle could.
I think the Abyssal bloodrager would be better off using bite/claw/claw than going straight greatsword, wouldn't he?
2 x 1d8 from large claws
1 x 1d6 from large bite
3 x 5 from Str
3 x 4 from Power Attack
3 x 2 from Reckless RageSo that's 45.5 if you can hit on all three. And less chance of wasted attacks due to overkill than if you use a greatsword. On the downside, it requires a full attack.
Hey, lemme pimp dat s**t up wit da latest rage:
Human (adopted: horc toothy) abyssal bloodrager (rageshaper):
2 x 1d8 large claws
2 x 1d8 large claws bestial aspect
1 x 1d6 large bite
3 x 8 str (20 base, +4 rage, +2 size)
3 x 4 Power Attack (human bonus feat)
3 x 2 Reckless Rage
3 x 1 Arcane Strike (through retraining at 4th level)IOW: 2 claws +9 (2d8+15/x2), bite +9 (1d6+15/x2)
66.5 average damage with a full attack, or 24 damage with a single claw attack. Nice full attack damage and pretty decent single-attack damage for charges/AoOs/attack actions/etc (comparable to the average damage most 2-handers of the same level). Not as ridiculous as what a charge build can manage on paper, but will likely result in a higher overall damage actually dealt in most games/adventures.
Mo' phat bling for further pimpin' is found by dipping 2 levels of MoMS monk, giving you Pummeling Style/Charge for free pseudo-pounce and hilarious crit damage, perfect for high CR BBEGs. MoMS also gives you IUS for free, which sets you up for Feral Combat Training, Dragon Style/Ferocity and Horn of the Criosphinx. These give your claws 2 x Str mod damage on charges, at least 1.5 x Str mod on other attacks, and the x3 damage of Power Attack and Reckless Rage (just like 2-handed weapons). Grab a Helm of the Mammoth Lord for a fourth primary natural attack when you can afford it.
I see two problems: first, you can't use Adopted to get Toothy, as Toothy is a racial trait and not a race trait. You could use it to get Tusked, which is significantly worse because it's a secondary attack instead of a primary attack.
Second, when Rageshaper says "whenever a rageshaper gains a natural attack through the use of a polymorph spell, he can increase the damage done by that attack by one die" I don't think it means "add an extra damage die", it means "increase the damage dice to the next level, e.g. 1d4->1d6, 1d6->1d8, etc." Luckily, 1d8->2d6 which is almost as good as 2d8, but I just wanted to point out that it wouldn't be 2d8 on the enlarged claw, but 2d6. More importantly though, this ability only takes effect when under the effect of a polymorph spell. Using a supernatural ability to grow claws is not a spell, so the Rageshaper ability wouldn't take effect from your bloodline claw ability.
I see two problems: first, you can't use Adopted to get Toothy, as Toothy is a racial trait and not a race trait. You could use it to get Tusked, which is significantly worse because it's a secondary attack instead of a primary attack
I would argue that it only becomes a secondary attack when used in conjunction with manufactured weapons. In this way it would work similarly to Animal Fury (Barbarian Rage Power), and argue that the text is merely a reminder of the general rule for natural attacks.
This has been argued by Sean K Reynolds here.
Something about general rules being included in Feat/Class feature text and assumptions that natural attacks gained this way would be used in a full-attack with iteratives.
So yeah, I would argue that Razortusk would get you a primary bite attack. Though, I know, SKR saying something does not make it RAW, etc etc :).
Also, @Rumpinrufus. I completely agree with your interpretation of one die size, but let's not open that can of worms here, it is already getting enough attention in the bloodrager guide thread :)
How do you cast 10 times a day as 3rd level wizard?
2 1st and 1 2nd from levels, 2 bonus first and 2 bonus 2nd from Thessalonian Specialist, 2 bonus 1st from 20 int, 1 bonus 2nd from 20 int.
Total of 10 spells.
How do you cast 10 times a day as 3rd level wizard?2 1st and 1 2nd from levels, 2 bonus first and 2 bonus 2nd from Thessalonian Specialist, 2 bonus 1st from 20 int, 1 bonus 2nd from 20 int.
Total of 10 spells.
I think the sin specialist is bound to normal evocation and cannot take a speciality School.
I would look at a human Gendarme cavailer. Take mounted combat, ride by attack and spirited charge at level 1 and power attack at level 3. With a str of 18 at level 4 that will give you somthing like (6+6 +4,5)x3=49,5 on a charge with a impressive 4+4+4-2+1=+11 to hit 2 times a Day this number can be modifyed by a Challenge.
Some of the orders can modify this number a bit, like the Blue rose if you dont mind non lethal damage.
If it is a one shot it dosent matter but if you just plan to start at level 4 i would also go with the beast rider AT and exchange my horse for a Allosaurus or Tyrannosaurus at level 7.
How do you cast 10 times a day as 3rd level wizard?2 1st and 1 2nd from levels, 2 bonus first and 2 bonus 2nd from Thessalonian Specialist, 2 bonus 1st from 20 int, 1 bonus 2nd from 20 int.
Total of 10 spells.
I think the sin specialist is bound to normal evocation and cannot take a speciality School.
A Thassilonian Specialist receives two additional spell slots of each spell level he can cast.
You get to choose your specialty school (wrath in this case), but that pegs your choices for opposed schools. Which really hurts because wrath has conjuration and abjuration opposed. But, you would choose mage armor as your only sorcerer spell and then tag it with Outlander/Lore Seeker, and have a 12 CHA. That way you can get 8 hours of mage armor a day. At some point you would probably pick up a rod of extend for 14 hours. (Which eventually you will give to your cleric buddy in exchange for casting magic vestment on your armored kilt every day, but that's a ways down the line.)
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Whats build that does the most damage early on in the game? specifically lvl 4. I'm talking base damage swings, no crits or anything weird.Kind of depends on what kind of damage you're looking for. If you want a single target nuke a greatsword-wielding Barbarian or Blood-rager is likely the way to go. But a lot of time much of that damage is lost due to overkill (dealing 35 hit points to something that only requires 15 to kill), so consider this:
Human Weaponmaster Fighter
Min attributes: Str 13, Dex 13, Int 131st - Power Attack
1st - Cleave
1st - Dodge
2nd - Combat Expertise
3rd - Mobility
4th - Spring Attack (swap Cleave for Whirlwind Attack)With a Lucerne Hammer for instance, you'll be dealing 1d12 +6 (Power Attack) +6 (18 Strength) +1 (Weapon Training) for 14-25 points of damage, but you'll be able to do it against pretty much everyone within 10 feet of you - remember, that a full attack action (like Whirlwind Attack) allows you to take a 5' step in the middle of it, further increasing your attack area. So rather than one great big hit instead you could conceivably make 2, 3 or 4 pretty big hits, and then there's the additional ever-impending Attack of Opportunity allowed by your reach weapon.
Once saw a 4th level character with a Lore Warden version of this build (no Weapon Training, add Combat Reflexes) wipe out a group of eight 2nd level warriors without breaking a sweat.
I am absolutely loving this. My party is currently filled by melee characters with the exception of a Crossbow Person and a whip user. Need to put this guy in as a BBEG, or a fearsome minion.
SOOO MUCH DAAAMAGE! I'M GOING TO EXPLOOODE!
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.Varissian tattoo
Outlander/Loreseeker
Intense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
So I just put it all together and you can get there. I wouldn't build the character this way if I were playing beyond 4th level, but at 4th it is very strong.
Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded {orc}{draconic}][Tattooed Sorcerer] 1 / Wizard [Thassilonian Specialist {Wrath}][Evoker {Admixture}] 3
T - Magical Lineage - Burning Hands
T - Outlander/Lore Seeker - Burning Hands/Scorching Ray/Mage Armor
F - (Human) Intensified Spell
F - (Wizard) Spell Focus [Evocation] *PFS rule, YMMV
F - (1st) Bloatmage Initiate OR Irrisen Icemage
F - (Tattooed Sorcerer) Varisian Tattoo
F - (3rd) Spell SpecializationCL 3 - Wizard Levels
+2 CL - Spell Specialization
+1 CL - Varisian Tattoo
+1 CL - Outlander/Lore Seeker
+1 CL - Bloatmage Initiate / Irrisen Icemage8d4+17 DC18 10 times a day
At level 5, you could get it up to 10d4+22, At level 6 you would retrain stuff and switch over to fireball.
Just a note. You can't combine Crossblooded with Tattooed Sorcerer for the same reason you can't cross it with Wildblooded. Tattooed Sorcerer alters your level 1 Bloodline power.
Just a note. You can't combine Crossblooded with Tattooed Sorcerer for the same reason you can't cross it with Wildblooded. Tattooed Sorcerer alters your level 1 Bloodline power.
Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.Varissian tattoo
Outlander/Loreseeker
Intense spells class feature (which is actually only +1, I sux at teh maffs)I'll put the whole build together when I get home and make sure there is room for all the required feats/traits. Without a doubt you could get to 7d4+15.
So I just put it all together and you can get there. I wouldn't build the character this way if I were playing beyond 4th level, but at 4th it is very strong.
Human Sorcerer [Crossblooded {orc}{draconic}][Tattooed Sorcerer] 1 / Wizard [Thassilonian Specialist {Wrath}][Evoker {Admixture}] 3
T - Magical Lineage - Burning Hands
T - Outlander/Lore Seeker - Burning Hands/Scorching Ray/Mage Armor
F - (Human) Intensified Spell
F - (Wizard) Spell Focus [Evocation] *PFS rule, YMMV
F - (1st) Bloatmage Initiate OR Irrisen Icemage
F - (Tattooed Sorcerer) Varisian Tattoo
F - (3rd) Spell SpecializationCL 3 - Wizard Levels
+2 CL - Spell Specialization
+1 CL - Varisian Tattoo
+1 CL - Outlander/Lore Seeker
+1 CL - Bloatmage Initiate / Irrisen Icemage8d4+17 DC18 10 times a day
At level 5, you could get it up to 10d4+22, At level 6 you would retrain stuff and switch over to fireball.
Crossblooded doesn't though. It just gives you a choice. Tattooed takes it away. No conflict.
I don't like it but the FAQ uses the word alter and they both do alter.
I don't like it but the FAQ uses the word alter and they both do alter.
Well, that's pretty dumb... Anyone playing in my games will be welcome to ignore that. That would make it 7d4+15, and you would get touch of rage to give your buddy after you run out of spells.