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I was planning on making a reincarnated druid, and I discovered that the spell is a LOT more confusing than I originally thought it was.
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
No problems here, that's the duration of death and a rephrasing of the "Revivification against One's Will" rules in the Magic section of the PRD or Magic Chapter in the Core Rulebook.
Since the dead creature is returning in a new body, all physical ills and afflictions are repaired.
Still with you, makes sense here.
The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature's body still exists, it can be reincarnated, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature's body at the time of death.
No issue here either.
The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit from the natural elements at hand.
Here we get a problem. Aging Effects. What happens to your bonuses to mental stats for getting older? I'll touch more on this later.
This process takes 1 hour to complete. When the body is ready, the subject is reincarnated.No issues with this bit.
Ah, the source of another problem via Racial Traits. Humans and their bonus skill points (and honestly their bonus feat too). Do humans lose the additional bonus skill points, do they gain a "debt" of skill points without losing any? Racial Traits are not touched upon at all, and that is a SERIOUS oversight, in my opinion.A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed.
Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged.HOLD THE PRESSES! If your Constitution score changes, so will your hit points.
Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body.This part makes perfect sense, though a re-roll of stats would also make sense, as would getting an array.
First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.This says I remove ALL racial adjustments, and then apply the results from the table below, which only details physical adjustments... This is illogical and annoying.
The rest of this paragraph is unambiguous and makes perfect sense for balance and flavor reasons.The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is reincarnated. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be reincarnated). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being reincarnated. A spellcasting creature that doesn't prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.
Ditto, makes sense here.It's possible for the change in the subject's ability scores to make it difficult for it to pursue its previous character class. If this is the case, the subject is advised to become a multiclass character.
You might wish to clarify if the "GM's Choice" result should also allow you to change types or not. I've had a vindictive GM use reincarnate to turn players into rats before, and a line to the effect of "a creature can only be brought back into a new body of the same Type as its old body" would stem such abuses (and can always be house-ruled away if a particular GM doesn't like that change)
For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the table below. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created.
No issues hereA creature that has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be returned to life by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated. The spell can bring back a creature that has died of old age.
Uh oh. Another confusing/vague/contradicting point. Does it gain Spell-like abilities? Does it gain Supernatural abilities? Does it gain Physical Racial Traits? Does it gain MENTAL Racial Traits? The spell is silent on those particular abilities/traits beyond "and the like", which is awfully vague and open to interpretations that can lead to broken and unplayable characters
The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn't automatically speak the language of the new form.
A wish or a miracle spell can restore a reincarnated character to his or her original form.
That wraps up the quote of the spell from the PRD.
In summary, my questions:
Are racially granted training type abilities such as Elven Weapon Proficiency, or the Dwarven Hatred ability kept or lost on reincarnate?
Racially granted feats such as the Human bonus, or the half-elven skill focus. Are they kept? They should be because you keep all feats, but if you lose traits then they should go as well.
Do humans that reincarnate get to keep the bonus skill points they've gained? If yes, do they continue to gain new ones as they level? If no to either of the previous two questions, do they accrue some sort of skill point debt?
Are the benefits of aging kept? The penalties should (obviously) be lost, but nothing is ever said specifically about the mental stats or other purely mental abilities carrying over through reincarnate, or even aging ability score changes in general or specific.
Are racial class skills kept as class skills? Does it depend on training/physical form differences?
Do your hit points change or not? Because if your Con score changes, your HP ought to change as well, but the spell specifically says "A reincarnated creature ... hit points remain unchanged."
Do you retain your mental ability scores from race or not? The way the spell is actually worded, you don't. You are told to "eliminate the subject's racial adjustments and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores." There are no exceptions given for the mental scores, and that leads to some mind-bending inconsistencies. If you reincarnate an elf as an elf; suddenly they become less intelligent; dwarves that reincarnate as dwarves become less wise and more charismatic, while gnomes and halflings become less charismatic if reincarnated as themselves or anything else... how does that make any sense?
Do reincarnated creatures gain the Spell-like Abilities of their new body? Supernatural traits? Anything that normally falls under "Racial traits" like the Lizardfolk's "Hold Breath", the Goblin's "Skilled" or "Fast Movement", or the Orc traits of "Weapon Familiarity" or "Ferocity"?
I'm sure there are more questions, but those are the ones I came up with myself and with a quick glance at the boards. Finding no "official" answer on the subject, I figured I should try and ask them all in one place for ease of FAQ.
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Sometime breaking a rule in different phrases and treating the phrases as unrelated generate problems.
The rule say:
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is reincarnated. If the subject is 1st level, it takes 2 points of Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can't be reincarnated). A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being reincarnated. A spellcasting creature that doesn't prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell.
So let's examine your questions bout that that piece of the rules:
Do your hit points change or not? Because if your Con score changes, your HP ought to change as well, but the spell specifically says "A reincarnated creature ... hit points remain unchanged."
Yes and No. You must remember that some GM use fixed values for the hp (as in PFS) you get at each level, some have you roll your hp. In the past rolling was way more common. When you are reincarnated you keep the HP you have rolled, you don't roll again, but you apply the effect of your current constitution. Your constitution modify your hp total.
Are the benefits of aging kept? The penalties should (obviously) be lost, but nothing is ever said specifically about the mental stats or other purely mental abilities carrying over through reincarnate, or even aging ability score changes in general or specific.
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Are the benefits of aging kept? The penalties should (obviously) be lost, but nothing is ever said specifically about the mental stats or other purely mental abilities carrying over through reincarnate, or even aging ability score changes in general or specific.
Here the way in which you have broken down the sentences generate an error.
It is not: "First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.", it is: "Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores."A continuous paragraph where the rule state that you modify the physical scores, not the mental ones.
A GM, for simplicity sake, could rule that you lose the age modifier for the mental abilities, but it is not what the spell say.
Most of the other questions depend the GM rulings and are subject to variations from campaign to campaign.
I would rule that Racial traits that depend on training and Race traits will be generally retained, but that isn't always true.
Elven Weapon Proficiency, or the Dwarven Hatred will be surely retained unchanged, but the Halfling Low blow and Underfoot abilities will work differently when the Halfling is reincarnated in a 6' tall human.
Racial traits and race traits that depend on physical characteristics will be lost and possibly replaced.
Acquiring/losing exceptional and supernatural abilities. If they are mental abilities I will maintain them and a creature reincarnated in a new form with mental abilities will not acquire them.
If they are physical abilities they would be lost if they were part of the old form only and acquired if they depend on the new form.
The human skill and feat benefit, the half elf skill focus and multitalented benefits to me seem mental benefits and they would be retained but that can create some benefit for the character, especially an ex-human that would get best benefit from being an human PC while getting most of all benefits of his new race.
The GM here can use the piece "A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form." and say that the reincarnated PC don't recall everything and will lose one feat and 1 skill point/level (PC choices).
The rat thing.
That is a problem with the GM. If the GM play "Me against the players" there is little you can bo, beside searching for another GM.
The GM can have some reason for that too. If the player is reincarnating again and again while searching for the "perfect" race it can be very annoying.
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It sounds to me you're trying to make it more complex than it needs to be.
Only the physical adjustments change, it doesn't say remove all adjustments, but it's a clarification of the way the new physical adjustments work.
Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject's racial adjustments (since it is no longer necessarily of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores.
The first sentence points out that the body gets new physical scores because you know, new body. The second sentence explains how to get those physical scores.
Edit: and I should also read more carefully, Diego already put that in his answer as well.
Ugh. Stupid browser lost my whole reply.
There are some more things I want to say on the subject, but a few of the quick comments I can recall are:
The context does lead you to exclude the mental stats, but the wording should honestly be made a bit more explicit on that count.
They really need to FAQ this and provide examples, walking you through the spell like those old articles from WOTC.
Race Traits are actually kept despite reincarnate.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedNewRules.html#traits
Types of Traits
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Race Traits: Race traits are keyed to specific races or ethnicities, which your character must belong to in order to select the trait. If your race or ethnicity changes at some later point (perhaps as a result of polymorph magic or a reincarnation spell), the benefits gained by your race trait persist—only if your mind and memories change as well do you lose the benefits of a race trait.
It specifically mentions Reincarnate.
Now I'm perfectly inclined to assume that means the less restricted traits should be kept as well, but that needs to be included into the spell, honestly. Also it leads to silliness with things like the half-orc "tusked" race trait... but that's par for the course in D&D/Pathfinder. The rules can occasionally lead to things that don't make sense, that's what DM's are for.
Still doesn't mean that GMs should adjudicate EVERYTHING. A consistent set of rules is a very good thing when one is playing, and clear rules text is the first step to consistent rulings.
Obviously, that's the whole point of rule 0. If something becomes a problem, it's the DM's job to fix it.
But rules clarification is a good thing, because less DM's have to make those calls, and players can assume spells work a certain way much more safely.
I mean, would you want to take the time to create an interesting backstory on a reincarnated archetype druid if your DM says you lose basically everything, and ONLY get the physical stat adjustments from the new body. You don't get any of the useful things like darkvision or the ability to swim better, you're basically a human with no bonus feats and no bonus skill points, and a few extra stat points.
Personally? That stinks. Maybe I would enjoy some of the extra traits to offset the loss of my primary traits and the possibility that I will become a lot less socially viable, maybe even a liability. Who would want to be a bugbear in the middle of Dwarven lands?
Also reincarnate should NEVER stack and allow you to collect abilities. That's obvious from all sorts of angles (James Jacobs even said so). Anything that reincarnate grants, reincarnate will take away if it is used again. Anything that reincarnate does not take away, reincarnate will not grant.
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The problem is, there's no official source saying any of this. The spell is one of the more ambiguous ones I've read in a long time, and there are no FAQ blogs or developer comments (Beyond those of James Jacobs, who has stated that anything he says is how he would run it at his table, not an interpretation as a Game Designer... so unfortunately, his words can't be taken as "official" which is important to a lot of people).