does this seem over powered for a cantrip?


Homebrew and House Rules


Torch
Range touch
Sr yes
Damage 1point plus 1 point per 3 caster levels
reflex negates
duration concentration
target one five foot square adjacent to you.

Ignores hardness
Fire damage


No cantrips I know have scaling of any kind with level. This alone is what makes me dubious of such a spell.


It's not a cantrip level spell, no. It's also broken. Not in the overpoweredness way, but the "this doesn't work" way.

Firstly, if you're seeking to create a damaging cantrip, base it on acid splash or ray of frost. Those are the acceptable power level for something like this. This one in particular is above that power level somewhat. Automatically ignoring hardness is mostly what does it. Also, scaling damage is not something cantrips have, even a little of it.

Secondly, the spell is broken; it doesn't actually work as you've written it. It should not be a spell with a range of touch or a ranged touch spell and have a reflex save. Spells don't have that (generally). As well, having it be range touch or a ranged touch conflicts with the duration. A spell requiring concentration requires a standard action every round where you concentrate on the spell. To make a touch attack past the round you cast the spell on, you use a standard action. You've made no exception for this. It's literally impossible to use the spell on rounds after its casting unless you have extra standard actions.

If you mean that the spell is "range touch" as in a 5 foot range, it has the wrong range listed.

Scarab Sages

A) No cantrip has scaling damage

B) is it's range 5', or touch? Is it single-target, or is it a AoE (5' square)

C) Does it deal damage once, or once per round you're concentrating?

It is also worth noting that there isn't a single cantrip that deals fire damage, probably for a reason (1/2 orc sorcerer FCB comes to mind)

The Exchange

the way its written it hits a square ac 5 which should allow a relfex save. also you didnt even bother to put a cap on the bonus damage. then its also a damage spell with no variables. even with a range of 5 this spell is not balanced. if its to be used in combat make it a touch and deal 1d3+1 that also ignites combustibles. but i see no purpose for a spell like this. you could more easily just change a diff spell element


Personally, I'd create a cantrip that required a touch attack, and on a successful touch attack, the target had to make a Reflex save (at the spell DC or 15, whichever is lower) or begin to smolder, before catching on fire at the start of their next turn, and automatically extinguishing at the end of their turn (unless they're covered in lantern oil or something).

Catching on fire for one round (without the "immediately" clause, due to the smoldering) can deal a respectable bit of damage for a cantrip (1d6), but a wizard spell with "single target only, requires entering melee reach, failed attack roll wastes the action, Reflex can negate that on top of it, and Spell Resistance can negate it on top of both of those, and the fire only lasts one round" would put it more in line with a cantrip, because it would be strictly worse in every way compared to burning hands, and the extreme limitations put it about on par with disrupt undead, which can also do 1d6 damage.

However, it would be useful for a magus as a (sort-of) damaging touch cantrip.


It allows SR, a save to negate, is limited to touch range, and does a tiny amount of damage? Yeah, seems fine, you won't ever break into double digits with the damage. Honestly, there are FAR more problematic spells out there, a new cantrip like this isn't going to destabilize the game.

The Exchange

this spell with the society trait for sorcerers multiclassing into magus gives a powerful boost to every single rounds damage. dont make it touch make it ranged touch with a range of 5 to make it so magus cannot abuse it.

still this is targeting a square thats ac 5 id make it target a person.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is the ultimate "bonds don't matter to me" spell. It's the ultimate doors, locks, and bars don't matter to me spell as well.

So yeah, way beyond cantrip level.


How about this
Torch
School :evocation (fire)
Level 0
Casting: 1 standard action
Component: v, s
Range: 5 foot burst
Duration: instantaneous
saving throw: reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes
1 fire damage
The damage of this spell can not be effected or altered by any class feature feat skill or talent or magical item that the caster may possess.
After 10 rounds of consecutive damage to the same target with this spell allows it to ignore hardness of any non magical unattended object.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
fel_horfrost wrote:

How about this

Torch
School :evocation (fire)
Level 0
Casting: 1 standard action
Component: v, s
Range: 5 foot burst
Duration: instantaneous
saving throw: reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes
1d3 fire damage

Still no. it's beyond the level of ray of frost or acid splash so, no. Given that cantrips are unlimited use, I'm going to be bloody strict about the invention of new ones.


Let's try this again
Torch
School :evocation (fire)
Level 0
Casting: 1 standard action
Component: v, s
Range: 5 foot burst
Duration: instantaneous
saving throw: reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes
1 fire damage

The damage of this spell can not be effected or altered by any class feature feat skill or talent or magical item that the caster may possess.


Out of curiosity, what are you trying to do with this exactly?

The Exchange

It's a cantrip so you can cast it each round, I would drop .everything dealing with concentration.

An aoe cantrip, hmm that makes it hard to balance. I think 1d2 Fire damage to one 5' square reflex negates and cannot cause fires to start is about right. It's something vs swarms at least...

There is already a fire cantrip, spark but it's single target if I remember right.


Spark doesn't deal damage, so it's really not the same.


That is not a cantrip IMHO, not with the scaling


Apprentices Fireball

School (Evocation)
Components, Verbal, Somatic
Spell Resistance; None
Level; 0
Saving Throw; Reflex Half
Radius 5 foot square
Effect; this spell functions as fireball with the exception it deals 1d3+1 fire damage in a 5 foot square. if used against a swarm, the swarm is denied the usual saving throw for half due to the many creature making it up.

Scarab Sages

fel_horfrost wrote:

How about this

Torch
School :evocation (fire)
Level 0
Casting: 1 standard action
Component: v, s
Range: 5 foot burst
Duration: instantaneous
saving throw: reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes
1 fire damage
The damage of this spell can not be effected or altered by any class feature feat skill, talent, or magical (I'm a formatting nazi apparently) item that the caster may possess.
After 10 rounds of consecutive damage to the same target with this spell allows it to ignore hardness of any non magical unattended object.

I'm personally fine with this version (save that 5' burst isn't a range, it's an area {see Burst of Radiance} try making it range 15' or 30', area 5' burst {which is a 10' square}) if you also include that it doesn't ignite objects. It may still be unbalanced, because it completely replaces Knock if you have the time and don't care about collateral damage, but I like to allow creative freedom that follow the rule of cool.

Basically you've created a really slow lightsaber, it slices, it dices, it cuts through annoying adamantine doors. I like the idea of the party being trapped in a necromancer's tomb by a reinforced adamantine door that the fighter can't just bust through, fighting endless waves of zombies. Suddenly the wizard remembers he prepared Babby's Beam Blaster. The party then has to go protect the wizard for minutes while he slowly melts down the door, lest something keep him from casting it for a round, losing his combo, and adding a minute to the time the zombies have to kill them.


Lets try this then

Torch
School :evocation (fire)
Level 0
Casting: 1 standard action
Component: v, s
Range: 5 foot square adjacent to caster
Target : 1 5 foot square
Duration: instantaneous
saving throw: reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes
1 fire damage

The damage of this spell can not be effected or altered by any class feature feat skill or talent or magical item that the caster may possess.


Too be fair this is still worse than detect magic

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