Puppeteer (Summoner Archetype) - help and critics

[Invictus Spartan]

Good day to all.

It's been generations since I last played Pathfinder, but inspiration brought me back to try something I haven't tried before. I want to make a "Puppeteer". Something akin to Summoner, but instead of the "Eidolon" it would be a "Puppet".

I did some research and found nothing official, so why not creating something new, although I don't know as much as I wish, so I thought of seeking your help. Here are my basic ideas:

- Rules for Eidolon/Puppet evolution just the same (you can craft a puppet in any shape and whatnot);
- Puppets are Eidolon of the Construct type (there is no such option in books), but they have all advantages and weakness of a Construct (thus the Puppeteer would have "Repair Damage" spell to "heal" his puppet);
- The puppet grows more "real" as the Summoner grows in levels. (pretty much like Pinocchio, the Puppet became a "living being", gathering the best of both worlds (advantages of constructs and non-constructs);
- The Puppeteer needs to "control" the puppet through invisible "soul lines". These can be severed by force spells or weapons, making the puppet inert. The Puppeteer adds his Dexterity to the puppet own Armor Class and attacks. (So the AC of a puppet would be its own Dexterity + the puppeteer Dexterity; the puppeteer Dexterity would also be added to the Attack rolls and Reflex rolls os the puppet);
- As levels grow, the puppet would be able to act on some turns by himself (not receiving the Dex from the puppeteer) and have its own ideas and personality;
- At the highest levels, the puppet would gain levels in classes, becoming effectivelly a "first of its kind" being, treating the Puppeteer as a creator-god and following him with obsession;
- The puppeteer would have powers not of summoning, but with the "soul lines" he create. Adding spells to its list that control the enemy body instead of mind and using the "soul lines" on enemies directly for a variety of effects.

I wish someone could help me pass this on rules from 1-20 and beyond, and I'd love to hear your comments and critics, as I still have just a raw idea. Thank you very much.

[Amanuensis]

This sounds like an interesting idea that deserves to be elaborated. You should give it a shot!

The biggest problem will be balancing out action economy (with the summoner having to maintain concentration to control his eidolon). It might be easier to skip that.

Replacing summon monster with the ability to control bodies would give the puppeteer a sinister touch - I really like that, though it will be hard to implement this into the summoner's mechanics. An easier (though less original) alternative would be animating/possessing objects.

By the way, a creepy puppeteer-summoner makes his appearance in the module "the harrowing" - with the summoner being the puppet, and the eidolon the puppeteer. Its stats can be found here (though this probably won't help you much with your concept).

[Invictus Spartan]

Oh, thank you for the good comment.

The idea of giving the puppet a bonus based on the puppeteer dexterity is the "good side" of the part that the puppeteer had to focus on him, but I'm accepting ideas.

I read the link you sent, very nice indeed, but again, I don't know how to apply it on the mechanics. Anyone else has ideas? Thanks a lot.

[Sam Parsons 736]

Great idea. Do you mind if I build on this and post my result both here and on my archetype emporium. I will give you credit as my inspiration.

[Parka]

Back before the APG was released, I started on a Puppeteer based on the Bard (as that was all I really had to work with). I've continued to devote a few hours here and there in the intervening years, and have come up with a ton of material since then, but have only one playtest of it, on an old version.

While the summoner builds on one large entity and the broodmaster splits HD on several entities, I had the puppeteer have a discrete number of minions, all at the same level (which was inferior to a druid of equal level). Philosophically, the design idea was to create a utility class with many weak minions that were constantly present and provided assistance to other party members, rather than trying to take on a party role themselves. To do this, dolls had "types" which acted like mini-classes, and puppeteers learned and improved types the way a ranger has favored enemies.

I can post what I've developed if you're interested. It had string-based abilities (an idea you had as well), and also abilities centered around gimmicky magical showmanship and the "arcane cores" I developed which served as the animating focus of the dolls.

[DeathMvp]

Great idea on this so far. To the pupet I do not think you should change it to much from a reagler Eidolon onther then give it the the below bounes from the race guild

Half-Construct (7 RP)

A half-construct race is a group of creatures that are artificially enhanced or have parts replaced by constructed mechanisms, be they magical or mechanical.

A half-construct race has the following features:
•Half-constructs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, poison, and effects that cause either exhaustion or fatigue.
•Half-constructs cannot be raised or resurrected.
•Half-constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a half-construct can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required for the construct to survive or stay in good health.

With the other parts of the Eidolon would make it work. All the other changes would be on the summoner side like the stings giving the "puppet" his ac bounes to dex for a number of rounds a day something like Rage with maby some of the bounes to rage but dex instead of str and when you do not have the rage they are fetigued.