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I've run through it once as a GM with a four man party. It was very by the book and largely successful. This time though I'm doing things a bit differently - I'm going to be adding in three books of Shattered Star (#1, #5 & #6) and I'll be running it with three PC's:
Human Paladin (archetype undecided, probably Oath of Vengeance)
Half-Elven Summoner (new Spirit Summoner archetype, Battle Spirit)
Human Blackblooded Oracle (Spellscar Curse, she'll be drawing from the Sorcerer spell list instead of the Oracle one)
I'm adjusting the characters by allowing them to use 25 point buys, to take campaign traits as a 3rd optional trait and to gain 2 extra skill points per level in order to help make up for their smaller party size. I'll also be liberally using NPC's scattered throughout the AP. The party's light on healing and has no trap-finding or legitimate ranged threats to speak of - that will obviously have to be addressed.
I'm hoping to take advantage of the roll20(?) tabletop program for the first time, and I'll be doing a lot of re-writes (as I've mentioned in other threads), particularly to include the various Sihedron shards in various locations. At the moment this is what I've got:
Shard of Wrath (with Elyrium in the Catcombs of Wrath)
Shard of Envy (in possession of the Skinsaw Man)
Shard of Lust (in possession of the alu-demon Ashamintallu)
Shard of Gluttony (in possession of Mammy Graul)
Shard of Pride (in possession of Mokmurian)
Shard of Sloth (in possession of the Blue Dragon Cadrilkasta)
Shard of Greed (in possession of the Runelord Kourzog)
The AP's will take place in the following order:
Runelords #1
Runelords #2
Shattered Star #2
Runelords #3
Runelords #4
Runelords #5
Shattered Star #5
Runelords #6
Shattered Star #6
I'm going to be drawing from the Wayfinder's, particularly #7, to add a few little things to the campaign and likewise I'll be omitting a handful of things (like the Asylum, probably). I'm really making this post in the hopes of getting any and all advice, both technical and otherwise, regarding adjustments for a 3-man party, using Roll20, what might be good to omit, what might be good to add... any thoughts at all are most welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Looking forward to checking this out. I'm pretty familiar with Roll20, though I've never done any API work, so if you've any nonAPI questions I'd be happy to help.
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One thing I might recommend - After Runelords 5, the PC's will probably want to take the fight to Karzoug pretty badly. Putting in Shattered Star 5 right after might run the risk of feeling like a side mission. There are three options I can think of that might work there - merge Shattered Star 5 with Runelords 6, or move Shattered Star 5 to after Runelords 6 or before it, likely after Book 4 of Runelords. You'll have to adjust some things, but I think i'll improve the flow signifigantly.
One thing I might recommend - After Runelords 5, the PC's will probably want to take the fight to Karzoug pretty badly. Putting in Shattered Star 5 right after might run the risk of feeling like a side mission. There are three options I can think of that might work there - merge Shattered Star 5 with Runelords 6, or move Shattered Star 5 to after Runelords 6 or before it, likely after Book 4 of Runelords. You'll have to adjust some things, but I think i'll improve the flow signifigantly.
I'm actually thinking about kind of sandboxing/combining SS5 and RotRL5 because, by that point, it will have become clear to the players that defeating Karzoug is absolutely necessary but still just a step (the last step?) in the plan of re-forging the Sihedron, since it will be presumed by them that Karzoug has the Shard of Greed. Personally I'm going to nudge them towards dealing with Cadrilkasta first since I see the battle with Special K as being more climactic and I like the earlier tie-ins with Leng...
Some advancement/encounters will need to be adjusted a bit, but the PC's have already been briefed that they will be leveling at predetermined points, and that there may be some accordian-ing with them spending more time at one level than the next. They're fine with it, they just want to tell the story.
That's definitely going to be the trickiest transition/balancing act though, between those two books.
Looking forward to checking this out. I'm pretty familiar with Roll20, though I've never done any API work, so if you've any nonAPI questions I'd be happy to help.
See, I don't even know what 'API' is.
What I'd like to do is to have my players seated around a table, each with their tablets or laptops showing the battle map, each seeing what their character is able to see and each able to move their characters when their turns come up. That's all I need - we can handle all of the dice-rolling or action descriptions between us verbally. It would add a great deal of realism to battles and prevent the lull brought on from my having to hand draw each encounter.
Its my understanding that roll20 can do that. Apart from that possibly mistaken belief, I have no idea how to get from here to there. I do have all the maps purchased as pdfs as part of the AP subscription.
Gotcha. I haven't done that with Roll20, but yes, it's doable. I did run Rise for a little bit like that on D20pro, which I think is better for that particular use, though the reasons I say that might be largely irrelevant for you.
What I did with the Rise game, was stat all the bad guys up as complete as possible in the VTTs character sheets, and made sure all my PC tokens had at least hit points and AC accurate. D20pro has features that let you "attack" with a token, using its attack bonuses to target another token's defenses (AC, Touch, Flat Footed, and CMD), and apply damage on a hit (and to some extent recognizes crits). This made my job quite a bit easier as all I had to do was point and click with the NPCs, not having to look up on their sheet what their attack with their various weapons/spells were.
Roll20 can do similar, but not as good. If you want to know more, ask and I'll explain it to the best of my ability, otherwise, I'm going to run with the idea you said about you guys rolling all the dice physically.
Couple things of note...
Roll20 is "free" but not really. You can subscribe for a monthly fee and get a couple features, namely dynamic lighting, or become a mentor for a larger monthly fee and gain more features, namely API scripting.
As I said, I'm not real familiar with API work, but it boils down to being able to code things into the game more. Some of the issues I'm going to bring up regarding dynamic lighting are supposedly fixable/doable with API scripting...but there's no way I'm paying the money they want for that.
Dynamic lighting is a neat feature, but would be a lot better if it was just a little different. You can create tokens that cast light, and give your PC tokens the ability to pick up on that light, as well as deal with line of sight. That way things like walls and pillars and the like will actually obscure the map.
Like I said, it's neat...but where it falls apart, in my opinion, is when the group is made of up races that have various degrees of night vision. Having dark vision and normal vision in a group of PCs is pretty easy to handle...as you just set the tokens that produce light to the proper radiuses and you're good. Once someone comes in with low light though, they see twice as well in the same lighting condition as a human...and the only way to represent that is incredibly convoluted and annoying as hell to make work...and it makes moving anything that produces light take three or four times as long.
But yes...I think, even with the free version, you'll easily be able to do what you want to do. You'll likely want to get paint.net (what I use) or gimp (what apparently everyone else on the planet uses) to modify the images you pull from the PDF, as it'll save you a lot of hassle being able to find out and adjust dimensions of the maps...and hopefully you have the anniversary edition so you can turn the grid off...I don't know what the hell is going on with Paizo's cartographers, but their grids are absolutely horrifying.
Lotsa stuff.
I do have the anniversary edition. I'm not married to d20 or Roll20 or any other specific software as I haven't made any sort of purchases or downloads yet, and I'm not opposed to paying some money for a product if it will fill my needs.
I'm trying to keep things very simple at first, limiting it to the parameters I discussed. As my group and especially I get more comfortable using the software, I may want to take advantage of more features. Any advice on how to get started would be most welcome.
Also, you mentioned in your original reply that you would be following this - did you mean the technical aspect or the game aspect? With regards to the story, the modifications, the gameplay, etc. is there anything in particular you were curious about?
I would start with pulling the maps out of the PDFs and getting them loaded into roll20. Again, minus the grids would be my suggestion :) then searching around the art library for appropriate tokens.
What I normally do for combat encounters is put the monster/enemy NPC tokens on the GM layer, especially if there's the possibility that they will be hidden, like they are in the opening encounter of Rise. If you're feeling ambitious, you could do tokens for random civilians/named NPCs and actually populate the festival.
You could copy paste stat blocks onto the bio section of the tokens to help with combat, or have a link to the monster stats in the SRD if it's a standard critter.
As for me following...a lot of it is to see how things go mixing in the books from SS. I haven't seen anyone talk about that before and I think it's a neat idea. I'm not nearly as familiar with SS as I am Rise, though I do own it. For example, the Shards you mentioned above are something from SS? I might have to look into that for the context.
I would start with pulling the maps out of the PDFs and getting them loaded into roll20. Again, minus the grids would be my suggestion :) then searching around the art library for appropriate tokens.
As for me following...a lot of it is to see how things go mixing in the books from SS. I haven't seen anyone talk about that before and I think it's a neat idea. I'm not nearly as familiar with SS as I am Rise, though I do own it. For example, the Shards you mentioned above are something from SS? I might have to look into that for the context.
I haven't even downloaded any software yet (or even looked for any for that matter) - is Roll20 your recommendation? What if I have apple and my players have pc? What if they have tablets or laptops? The technology is a little intimidating - hell, I still write by hand as often as not.
The primary plot behind Shattered Star is to find the seven pieces of the Sihedron, the primary magical rune from ancient Thassilon, and to unite them - basically a 'rod of seven parts' type quest but one that deliberately shares a tremendous amount of history with Rise of the Runelords as well as almost all of the same geography. It was originally written as a sequel of sorts, so there are lots of tie-ins that make it a natural to blend the two. I chose the portions of SS that I did for their particularly heavy doses of Runelord tie-ins and for the organic way they could be transplanted without the story seeming to go off on its own. It also makes for a larger campaign that seems more about the Runelords in general than about one in particular.
If you're familiar with RotRL, then I'd recommend you read the first two books of SS and glance through the last two - you should be able to see for yourself the opportunities to incorporate a lot of that material.
If you're going to be in a spot that has wireless or internet of some sort, I would recommend starting with roll20. Though I don't know about it's compatibility with apple. I can say roll20 isn't actually a program you download, but a site that you go to and log in at, so internet connections are going to be required. If I remember right there are some issues with tablets, but I remember seeing something about it when I first signed up somewhere around two years ago, and it's never been an issue I needed to look into. If you personally have a tablet handy, I would go to roll20.net and see if you can't sign up and create a campaign and see if there are any issues.
D20pro just had a kickstarter for a huge upgrade, as the guy who made it created it several years ago (I bought my copy at the same Gencon I bought the Pathfinder rules, 09) and then got a wife and a kid and all that jazz...I know there was talk in the streatchgoals about all sorts of tablet support, and I'm pretty sure most of those goals were met, but I have no idea of a time table on how long until that update goes live. Right now, I would assume tablets and d20pro wouldn't work out well, though that's a fairly uneducated guess.
Fantasy Grounds is another option, and one I'm currently investigating as it does a lot of what I wanted d20pro to do, and I came across FG back when it was looking like d20pro was just a forgotten step child. Again though, I don't know about tablet or apple support.
One thing with both d20pro and FG, is they are programs you load on your computer. It's been long enough with d20pro that I can't recall exactly what it takes to connect with other computers, but I'm pretty sure when I did it it was through a LAN. FG has a lot of connection issues, and that is right now my biggest stumbling block (well, that and price). I'm not very good with networking computers, but as I understand it all the players in FG are connecting to ports on the GMs PC, through a router or something along those lines...which if you're savvy with that kind of thing probably isn't that big of a deal...but I am not...at all...
I'm going to have to start reading SS, hopefully tonight as a matter of fact. I remember really wanting to run it when I was getting it as a subscriber, and being excited about the sequel angle. With the rate my group finishes anything though, if I want to run Rise then SS I'll likely be finishing book six of SS sometime in the next decade, maybe two...so what I might do is use what you do here as inspiration and merge them.
Are the first two and last two just better at meshing in with the plot, or is there another reason you recommended reading them and not the middle two?
I can't speak to Shattered Star (and RotRL is ambitious enough for me by itself.) But I can speak somewhat to the technology. Here is what my group does which seems similar to what Story Archer is trying to do.
We use Roll20 but only for display purposes. All the players are in the same room though the primary mission of Roll20 is to permit remote table-top RP with players geographically dispersed. The DM (me) is logged into Roll20 with a pc. Another pc in the room is logged into Roll20 and connected to a 42 inch monitor. I reveal portions of the maps (taken from the map pdf's) as the group explores. I don't need to worry about scaling or other combat functions in Roll20. When the time comes for combat, I have one of the players sketch out the appropriate sections on a dry-erase grid and we use miniatures, real dice, etc. for combat. (You know, the old fashioned way.) I assume that absent a large screen, each player at the table could log into Roll20 with whatever tablet, laptop, etc. they had to see the map. As Fraust says above, Roll20 is web-based and I don't see why a tablet wouldn't work. This does imply everyone at the table has an electronic device. Or they share one or more of them.
Now you can take it to the next level with Roll20 - get scaled maps (tons available in the community content sticky right here on the RotRL forum) provide each player with a token, find tokens for all the monsters, etc. Again it's designed to permit complete play (including video and chat windows) for players not in the same building or city or state. Using it that way will take considerably more work by the DM.
I don't worry about differing visual capabilities since there is a human in the group and the working assumption is that any light source that lets the human function ruins the special visual capabilities of the other characters. I'm also not sure that Roll20 supports different views per player - the half-orc with darkvision and the elf with low-light vision and the human all see the same map. Roll20 does allow for more "realistic" lighting options at the pay levels (we use the free version) but that seems to me more trouble than it's worth and this setup is vastly superior to the alternative: I describe the room verbally, one player maps the "dungeon" perhaps on graph paper and then we need to draw it again on a grid for combat. The old way doesn't really account for dynamic lighting either. If the players can't see part of the map for whatever reason I simply don't reveal it using Roll20's "fog of war" feature.
My players do have tablets or laptops - they use them for Hero Lab which is a pretty awesome bit of software. But it's $30 to start and probably twice that if you need/want/are genetically compelled to buy all the rule add-ons, so it does call for some disposable income.
I'm going to have to start reading SS, hopefully tonight as a matter of fact. I remember really wanting to run it when I was getting it as a subscriber, and being excited about the sequel angle. With the rate my group finishes anything though, if I want to run Rise then SS I'll likely be finishing book six of SS sometime in the next decade, maybe two...so what I might do is use what you do here as inspiration and merge them.
Are the first two and last two just better at meshing in with the plot, or is there another reason you recommended reading them and not the middle two?
There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't read them all - the suggestions I made were just to prioritize your time and were specific to the campaign concept I was intending.
Book 1 I don't plan on using at all, but it establishes the entire premise for the over-reaching plot I'll be using (the discovery, retrieval and reforging of the Shards of Sin) as well as introducing a primary NPC to that end, Sheila Heidemarch. I intend for the PC's to either be casually introduced to her by Justice Ironbriar at a small reception where they are recognized for their recent efforts 'in the hinterlands' (sometime after The Misgivings so that Ironbriar can gauge the threat these PC's pose) or to have her approach them after the Skinsaw Cult is dealt with and they've gained in fame a bit - or both. She'll be the one to cast light on the Shard's they have discovered up to that point and will point them towards the Lady's Light as a potential resting place for the third... or at least, that's where I'm at right now.
I'll be using books 2, 5 and 6 as shown above as they fit the best into the campaign I'm building, and to be honest, 9 volumes of an AP plus the occasional side trek here or there is about as ambitious as I want to get. As you read through them, if you have any campaign-specific questions, let fly - you may bring up something I hadn't fully or properly considered.
We use Roll20 but only for display purposes. All the players are in the same room though the primary mission of Roll20 is to permit remote table-top RP with players geographically dispersed. The DM (me) is logged into Roll20 with a pc. Another pc in the room is logged into Roll20 and connected to a 42 inch monitor. I reveal portions of the maps (taken from the map pdf's) as the group explores. I don't need to worry about scaling or other combat functions in Roll20. When the time comes for combat, I have one of the players sketch out the appropriate sections on a dry-erase grid and we use miniatures, real dice, etc. for combat. (You know, the old fashioned way.) I assume that absent a large screen, each player at the table could log into Roll20 with whatever tablet, laptop, etc. they had to see the map. As Fraust says above, Roll20 is web-based and I don't see why a tablet wouldn't work. This does imply everyone at the table has an electronic device. Or they share one or more of them.
Now you can take it to the next level with Roll20 - get scaled maps (tons available in the community content sticky right here on the RotRL forum) provide each player with a token, find tokens for all the monsters, etc. Again it's designed to permit complete play (including video and chat windows) for players not in the same building or city or state. Using it that way will take considerably more work by the DM.
I don't worry about differing visual capabilities since there is a human in the group and the working assumption is that any light source that lets the human function ruins the special visual capabilities of the other characters. I'm also not sure that Roll20 supports different views per player - the half-orc with darkvision and the elf with low-light vision and the human all see the same map. Roll20 does allow for more "realistic" lighting options at the pay levels (we use the free version) but that seems to me more trouble than it's worth and this setup is vastly superior to the alternative: I describe the room verbally, one player maps the "dungeon" perhaps on graph paper and then we need to draw it again on a grid for combat. The old way doesn't really account for dynamic lighting either. If the players can't see part of the map for whatever reason I simply don't reveal it using Roll20's "fog of war" feature.
My players do have tablets or laptops - they use them for Hero Lab which is a pretty awesome bit of software. But it's $30 to start and probably twice that if you need/want/are genetically compelled to buy all the rule add-ons, so it does call for some disposable income.
This sounds very much along the lines of what I'd like to do - with the understanding that 'what I'd like to do' is still evolving. If I could set it up so that the maps and tokens all appeared on my living room television, that would be absolutely fantastic, even if I am the only one who can move the tokens around. The group might benefit from a shared reveal of the 'Fog of War' but at least that fog will be there, I won't have to draw (somewhat ugly) maps and so on. Again, as we get more comfortable with the software we might attempt more software-savy feats, but that's a great place to start.
What would I need? A single laptop with a connection to the television as a display? How would my view (with all the hidden things) be made different from the view the group sees up on the screen? Would it be more practical to encourage everyone to get tablets/laptops of their own rather than trying to use a shared display?
Again, to be clear, I'm not trying to do anything other than to replace the table-top maps with displays that accurately represent what the characters would be able to see in-game, whether that ends up being on individual computer screens or on a shared universal display. Everything else we'll take care of with HeroLab or dice, pen and paper.
This time though I'm doing things a bit differently - I'm going to be adding in three books of Shattered Star (#1, #5 & #6)
Ugh - just realized I originally typed this. Should read #2, #5 and #6. Sorry for the confusion.
I honestly could see myself upscaling Book #1 and running it as well, kind of the PC's introduction into Magnimar once they leave Sandpoint, but I've already got a lot of balls in the air doing 9 volumes and shoe-horning in Book #1 would do much to advance the story.
gahhh...just had a rather long (winded) post eaten due to a lousy connection...
Long story short...roll20 will work perfect for what was described above. You can do it on one computer, but you would need to open two browsers to roll20 (you can do this on one account). You'd be better off with two computers though. One for you, and one for a player that gets to move all the PC tokens around. But yeah, as long as you can hook a device up to your TV, you should be good. Definitely try it out and experiment to see how it works.
gahhh...just had a rather long (winded) post eaten due to a lousy connection...
Very, very frustrating.
Do you have a link to the roll20 download site? Or any other links which would prove useful?
Also, in our game we'll have some houserules in place - are you interested in those or are you just curious about how we'll be linking the two AP's?
gahhh...just had a rather long (winded) post eaten due to a lousy connection...
Majuba lol thanks. I just need to remember to cnt+a cnt+c before I post, especially the long ones.
Story Archer...I'm not normally a fan of houserules, though it never hurts to look just in case someone's come up with something brilliant.
Roll20.net is the site, though there's no downloading. You'll make a profile just like you did here. After you've made one and signed in you can start creating the campaign. Once your in your game room, on the right hand side there will be a strip divided out from the play area. Across the top of this strip are some menus. The chat box, an art library, the journals, the jutebox, and the settings.
I think the default is the chat box, and in there should be a thing that says the link url or join url or something like that...it'll be a section that's blocked out but when you put the mouse cursor over it it'll show a url. You copy/paste that and send it to the players. Sounds like you guys will be using just one player computer, so you only need to get the link to that computer then. Once the person on that computer has made an account on roll20 also, and clicked that link, their account will be joined to the campaign as a player, and they can come into the game room. You can also assign them journals, which might not be terribly important for what you're doing, least not at the beginning (journals are basically character sheets), but what will be important is assigning them tokens. That way you can set at your computer and do GMy things, while one of the players sets at the player computer and moves all the PC tokens around the map. The player computer being the one connected to the TV so everyone can see the map.
If you need any help feel free to ask here or PM me. I'd also be willing to go into the game room at some point with you to point things out/answer questions if you'd like.
Story Archer...I'm not normally a fan of houserules, though it never hurts to look just in case someone's come up with something brilliant.
Well, I'm making some character-specific changes to help them realize their concepts more fully, but those are unique things, not what I'd term official 'house rules'.
The main things I'm going to be doing is getting rid of Spell Resistance; for monsters who normally have it, 'Spell Resistance' becomes a monster ability which grants a universal +4 to saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities. I just find it really streamlines play.
I'm also adding BAB to Initiative rolls, something I've done in the past that has worked really well. Apart from that I generally ignore WBL and customize the majority of my magic items.
We had our official 'pre-game' meeting last night, finalizing characters and ironing out all the little things including character background. I've got one of the more 'techie' guys working on Roll20 right now to get familiar with it and I've even ordered the Deluxe Edition as a present to myself for being such an awesome GM ;-P
I'll keep you guys updated. I'm going to have them each keep campaign journals, and will be engaging them in RP via email between sessions to further the story and their individual subplots. I'm seriously considering making a website to tell the story as it unfolds, but I'm not sure there's enough interest in yet another RotRL campaign journal, even one as unique as this one will be.
I like the spell resistance idea. Pretty sure my group ends up forgetting about it more often than not, so I might have to start using this idea.
On initiative...hmm...that's interesting. Any particular reason why you use that?
Delux edition?
Looking forward to the campaign journals and the like. Wouldn't this be the place to tell the story though? I was under the impression that was a main point in this post :)
I like the spell resistance idea. Pretty sure my group ends up forgetting about it more often than not, so I might have to start using this idea.
On initiative...hmm...that's interesting. Any particular reason why you use that?
Delux edition?
Looking forward to the campaign journals and the like. Wouldn't this be the place to tell the story though? I was under the impression that was a main point in this post :)
It just depends on how much I/we get into chronicling it. If all four of us are doing it I might have them upload their journals separately onto a website by chapter and then do my version describing things I changed or am setting up for down the road, etc.
The Deluxe Edition is that big leatherbound copy - the black one with the silver Sihedron on it.
We're doing the initiative thing for a couple of reasons; the first is that a d20 offers too great a variation for the small, non-scaling Initiative bonuses most characters have. The second is that it gives a minor buff to the martials (which isn't a bad thing) and they're the ones you would expect to be the most 'battle-ready' anyway.
I think on the initiative thing it's more beneficial to the martials to have the casters go first, so they can buff said martials, but that might just be the way I play casters :)
For some reason I was thinking you meant the deluxe version of roll20...makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, I've been thinking about picking that up...just need my student loans to arrive...
Ah, well here's hoping your players are well set on writing up individual journals.
I think on the initiative thing it's more beneficial to the martials to have the casters go first, so they can buff said martials, but that might just be the way I play casters :)
For some reason I was thinking you meant the deluxe version of roll20...makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, I've been thinking about picking that up...just need my student loans to arrive...
Ah, well here's hoping your players are well set on writing up individual journals.
There's only three of them and they seem pretty game for it. What I'm actually planning on doing is a lot of role-play via email - I'm a better writer than I am a play-actor, and in the 'down time' between sessions, I'll have emails for them each individually as well as for them as a group. I'm going to encourage them to print those exchanges out and add them to their journals so that each will be unique to their experiences.
We'll see. With such a small group I really want to go all out and I think those emails between sessions will go a long way towards keeping their head in it.
I'm running Rotrl now myself using Roll20. I have ported in all of the maps from the PDFs map folio. I'm actually using a client laptop hooked up to a 42 in screen laid flat on the table as a battle mat, and the players pass around a wireless mouse to move their tokens.
The host is on my second laptop which doubles as my gm screen. I subscribed for $5 a month to get the llight effects. It's all working slick so far.
I did buy in to the d20 pro kickstarter last month because the May release is going to have new features for touch screens to rotate the map.. Check that out. I'll be switching when it gets released.
I'm running Rotrl now myself using Roll20. I have ported in all of the maps from the PDFs map folio. I'm actually using a client laptop hooked up to a 42 in screen laid flat on the table as a battle mat, and the players pass around a wireless mouse to move their tokens.
The host is on my second laptop which doubles as my gm screen. I subscribed for $5 a month to get the llight effects. It's all working slick so far.I did buy in to the d20 pro kickstarter last month because the May release is going to have new features for touch screens to rotate the map.. Check that out. I'll be switching when it gets released.
You might become my go-to guy for this soon because that sounds perfect - would you mind if I pm'ed you on an 'as-needed' basis?
I am (slowly) working on putting together a RotL campaign and would love to see more of your notes and plans for incorporating the Shattered Star into RotL, as well as any other adventures and changes you have made. It sounds extremely interesting and I think my players would greatly enjoy it.
That could get pretty detailed over an AP and a half - I'm still not sure how I'm going to chronicle it, whether I'll just post here as we go, telling what I changed and why or if I'm going to put together a website and track it in detail with concurrent player journals.
If there are any particular things or areas you want to discuss, feel free to ask anything and to offer up any ideas you might have in turn. Also, pm me any time if you prefer.
We start next Friday :)
One of the things I'm looking at are potential NPC's to accompany the group at various times - they're a 3-man party, so I like to take advantage of opportunities to give them a little extra firepower here and there. These are some of the things I'm considering:
Shalelu - I'm probably going to have her accompany the PC's to Thistletop perhaps coming across them as they are assembling outside the ruins, having tracked the goblins back there from Sandpoint. I am also, as the AP suggests, going to be having her come along to Fort Rannick during the Hok Mountain Massacre.
Brodert Quink - The group is very light on Knowledge skills and he makes for a great resource for GM exposition and the occasional red herring. I'm going to rebuild him as an Archivist Bard and have him interact with the PC's regularly, both as a researcher back home and even accompanying them on a few of their adventures - to the Lady's Light, for instance, which he would have always wanted to visit. He's basically going to be a non-combatant, but he should be able to provide some insights and some buffs that help out the group a great deal without risking overshadowing them.
Oriana - I don't know exactly how things are going to go down with her and the Grey Maidens, but ideally the PC's will 'liberate' her and a few of her comrades. I'm thinking about having them integrate with the PFS via Sheila Heidmarch and then make occasional reappearances.
There are a few others I'm eyeing right now, especially later in the game but at the end of the day, the goal is for the group to have between 0 and 2 NPC's adventuring with them in some form or fashion, and I'd like to mix it up a little bit along the way. I'm planning on having a pair of Druids move into Thistletop once its cleared and having them be an occasional resource as well (for instance). One of the things I'm really looking forward to is the giant's assault on Sandpoint, which I think I'm going to make a much, much bigger deal... kind of a 'gathering of heroes' where favored NPC's from all throughout the campaign up to that point show up to stand with the players. Should be very cool.
This is a complete write-up of the applicable house-rules we'll be using in this campaign:
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Rise of the Runelords campaign house-rules:
The feats Power Attack, Point Blank Shot and Combat Expertise are free to all players who meet the pre-requisites. Additionally, all characters gain access to a new feat for free:
Aim
Pre-requisite: Dex 13, +1 BAB
A move action may be spent to gain +4 to ranged attacks until the end of the characters turn.
All casters gain the benefit of the Eschew Materials feat and Heighten Spell feat for free.
BAB will be added to the initiative roll for all combatants.
Spell Resistance will not exist in its current form. Creatures with Spell Resistance will instead gain the special ability ‘Spell Resistance’ which provides a blanket +4 to saving throws vs. spells and spell-like abilities. Feats and class features that include Spell Resistance as part of their effects will be disregarded or altered as needed.
Quicken Spell allows you to cast a standard action spell as a move action rather than as a swift action and only raises the required spell slot level by +3.
All PC’s will receive an additional 2 skill ranks per level.
Fighting Defensively is a full-round action which grants a +4 Dodge bonus to AC. Characters fighting defensively may only make attacks of opportunity but take no penalty to attacks.
Aid Another grants its bonus to attack or AC for an entire round against that target (but only that target) rather than just for one attack. If you are adjacent to your ally, it can also be used to grant its bonus to any one save as an immediate action.
Natural attacks provoke AoO's even if they have reach and the defender does not.
A character can make the following actions in a round:
Full round action, swift action.
Standard action, move action, swift action
Standard action, swift action, swift action
Move action, move action, swift action
Move action, swift action, swift action
Swift action, swift action, swift action
In addition, they may make one immediate action per round independent of their use of a Swift action.
Equipment changes:
Light Helm - grants +2 AC vs. Critical confirmations
Great Helm - grants +4 AC vs. Critical confirmations, -2 penalty on Perception checks
Light Armor grants DR +1/-
Medium Armor grants DR +2/-
Heavy Armor grants DR +3/-
I am (slowly) working on putting together a RotL campaign and would love to see more of your notes and plans for incorporating the Shattered Star into RotL, as well as any other adventures and changes you have made. It sounds extremely interesting and I think my players would greatly enjoy it.
Okay, wow, there's a lot going on there...
Just offering my perspective - there are a lot of fun things that you, in theory, could include simply due to proximity of setting but I feel like a regular AP is a huge under-taking and commitment time-wise, and everything you add in should enhance that experience, otherwise you risk detracting from it. With so many disparate things going on that may or may not have anything to do with the main plot and potentially months upon months of gaming without ever touching on the over-reaching story arc, I think you may be spreading yourself a bit too thin. Even just doing RotRL, you'll meander a bit before you're done. Keep in mind too the relative levels of some of the things you're considering doing... either you're going to have to do a LOT of work re-writing much of what you're thinking about including or characters are going to spend a lot more time at some levels than others.
What I'm technically doing is actually the Shattered Star storyline, but I'm enhancing it by adding in the entire Rise of the Runelords AP in place of three of the SS books. It tells the story better in my opinion, especially with my parsing out the shards to theme-appropriate villains as listed above, insinuating that many of their actions/motivations are driven by the subtle influences of the shards in their possession. Karzoug then becomes one of the driving motivations to reforge the Sihedron rather than being the climax of the campaign himself.
I don't expect my PC's to become PFS members (though that'll be up to them), so Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders is their actual hook into the campaign and its how they first draw Heidmarch's attentions initially - they'll have two shards in their possession by then and will have gained notoriety by taking down Ironbriar. She in fact helps them by identifying the Shards and telling them much of their history, though she will also keep some things back if they elect not to join the Society. Her priority is the PFS and her place in it, and she won't completely trust the PC's to act in her/thier best interests, so she will use a combination of manipulation and withheld information to try to keep the PC's more or less under her control. I have some interesting interactions between she and Brodert Quink planned as Quink will be a major NPC in this campaign.
Since I'm doing the Lady's Light and I'll be introducing the Grey Maidens and some other things (like Sorshien's clone) from that AP, I may well try to work in some fringe aspects from CotCT just to get them to Korvosa for a bit, but which pieces, when and how I'm going to do it I haven't decided yet. I don't want to distract the group by falling down the rabbit hole of another AP but all of the Sorshien stuff makes for a nice tie-in if I can orchestrate it right. Obviously I'll be playing around with the timeline. I'm also considering a 'rival' party for the group once the hunt for the shards is on - in fact, I may have one or more of the ones they've recovered stolen by this group which will in turn lead the PC's to Korvosa in pursuit.
Small note on roll20: I actually use it for both my Runelords and Reign of Winter campaigns. Initially I was doing things via webcam with miniatures. It was... not that helpful for the remote players. When I switched to Roll20 and required my players to use roll20, there were some initial problems but we overcame them. With my half-tabletop, half-remote group (Runelords) I've taken to putting the roll20 up on the large-screen TV for everyone to view.
It works nicely for everyone involved, makes distances and the like more accurate, and ultimately reduces the amount of work I need to do - while I have to upload maps and the like, I'm not searching for miniatures or doing "use-as" miniatures, I'm not measuring things on the table, worrying about knocking things over, having issues with how much space is available, and so forth.
I like to think it's sped things up a bit. And yes, you have an initial investment of time, but that's more than compensated for with less time wasted during the game itself.
Small note on roll20: I actually use it for both my Runelords and Reign of Winter campaigns. Initially I was doing things via webcam with miniatures. It was... not that helpful for the remote players. When I switched to Roll20 and required my players to use roll20, there were some initial problems but we overcame them. With my half-tabletop, half-remote group (Runelords) I've taken to putting the roll20 up on the large-screen TV for everyone to view.
It works nicely for everyone involved, makes distances and the like more accurate, and ultimately reduces the amount of work I need to do - while I have to upload maps and the like, I'm not searching for miniatures or doing "use-as" miniatures, I'm not measuring things on the table, worrying about knocking things over, having issues with how much space is available, and so forth.
I like to think it's sped things up a bit. And yes, you have an initial investment of time, but that's more than compensated for with less time wasted during the game itself.
I appreciate that input because that's exactly what I'm hoping to do - to simply enhance the experience for my players by putting the maps up on a TV on the wall, maps that aren't quickly and crudely hand-drawn by me between encounters. If it has their representations on it, that of the foes they are facing, and accurately reproduces line-of-sight and the fog-of-war, I'll be thrilled.
I own the pdfs and maps of both RotRL and SS, I'm hoping the learning curve won't be tto great. I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a bit intimidated by the... techie... nature of it,
For those of you following this thread, I had a thought...
Why not work in one of the most popular single AP volumes of all time, Seven Days to the Grave from Curse of the Crimson Throne?
The lead there and back again has already been laid, I think - in the Misgivings they have their first encounter with Vorel's Phage and after the group manages to defeat Justice Iron Briar, they find in his journal evidence that he's supplied the Red Mantis with the disease... that's the lead-in that can be expounded on and take them to Korvosa.
Then, I'm planning on running the Curse of the Lady's Light which features a group of Grey Maidens either in exile or on the run. I don't think it'd be hard to make a few subtle changes to the story, having the PC's track the group from Korvosa, or perhaps being alerted of their possible location by Sheila Heidmarch... there's any number of ways to tie it all in, I think.
The biggest problem I see at the moment is the fact that The Skinsaw Murders, the Curse of the Lady's Light and Seven Days to the Grave are all volume II of their respective AP's, meaning that they all take place over approximately the same levels. I've warned my PC's that their leveling may accordion a bit, but I don't think I want them stuck at one power level for too long. I suppose I can bump up each encounter a bit, but I don't want the PC's to out-level the Hook Mountain Massacre in the meantime.
I really like the idea of advancing the story in this fashion as there are strong Runelords ties with Sorshien's potential resting place and much of the shared history of the region. That's 10 AP volumes in one campaign... what do you think?
Runelords #1 - Burnt Offerings (Shard of Wrath)
Runelords #2 - The Skinsaw Murders (Shard of Envy)
Crimson Throne #2 - Seven Days to the Grave
Shattered Star #2 - Curse of the Lady's Light (Shard of Lust)
Runelords #3 - Hook Mountain Massacre (Shard of Sloth)
Runelords #4 - Fortress of the Stone Giants (Shard of Pride)
Shattered Star #5 - Into the Nightmare Rift (Shard of Sloth)
Runelords #5 - Sins of the Saviors
Runelords #6 - Spires of Xin-Shalast (Shard of Greed)
Shattered Star #6 - The Dead Heart of Xin (Sihedron reforged)
I think you have enough material to bring the players to level 20. :)
I think you have enough material to bring the players to level 20. :)
As do I, I'm just concerned about how much I'll have to re-write to keep their leveling even close to being smooth.
I went ahead and made a post on the main AP forum about this - since I'm tying together not 2 but 3 different AP's now it seems to have outgrown a RotRL-specific campaign.
Awesome. I actually just posted a thread similar to this. Wish i would have saw yours. Basically im doing the same thing though ive already started. Almost at the end of the Skinsaw murders. My deal is though I want to incorporate all 7 runelords and XIN!
Check it out here. That being said I actually came very close to following your same progression with some added modules though.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2rkm0?Ultimate-Rise-of-Runelords-Campaign-Compi lation
Burnt Offerings
Skinsaw Murders
CREATE Nualia Session for Half Fiend Transforamtion
PF # 61
PF # 62 Curse of Ladys Star
PF 63
Hook Mountain Massacre PF # 3
Seven Swords of Sin Dungeon
PF # 64
Fortress of Stone Giants PF#4
PF # 65
Sins of the Saviors
PF # 66, Wrath of Righteousness; fight XIn ghost, banish him
The Waking Rune-Sloth
Pathfinder 63-Gluttony
CREATE in city of Promise-Runelord of Envy, heavy dragon emphasis
Spires of Xin Shalast-Greed
Dungeons of Golarion pg24 -Wrath
Pathfidner # 12 CotCT -Lust
PF # 13, CREATE Setting, create Riddleport Dungeon-Pride
CREATE Xin Mythic fihgt CR 30, possible planar battle. Xin physical form manifested and fight him. Mythic Tier
Something like this where they fight each runelord.
Awesome. I actually just posted a thread similar to this. Wish i would have saw yours. Basically im doing the same thing though ive already started. Almost at the end of the Skinsaw murders. My deal is though I want to incorporate all 7 runelords and XIN!
I saw your post - I worry that you might be spreading yourself a little too thin and might be deviating from the books so much the entire thing is original material (not that that is necessarily a bad thing).
I just expanded my final campaign plotline and posted it on the AP forum for advise here.
Story Archer, I'd love an update on this.
One of my players has spoiled the campaign a bit, and I'm looking for a major change to keep everyone honest.
I'm very interested in your experience.